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QB Competition 2018

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Awesome thread man let me tell you what. I really like to see everyone's opinions and very well articulated on both sides. But, let's be clear, this thread was inspired by a loss to our rival and the general feel of it is Jalen lost the game for us. He did not ladies and gentlemen and glad to see a couple of pages back those speaking about frustration by our running backs. Jalen is not the problem at all. This loss is completely in the hands of the coaching staff...not the QB or any other single player on the team. I love Saban because he evolves with the game. Sometimes, however, you have to revolve into what works and that is what I fully expect him to realize after this last debacle with barney. Run the ball and control the clock on offense. GMAC won a National Championship as a "game manager." We need to have Jalen manage a little more and control a little less and that should be our game planning in the future. If you set a man up for failure and he consequently fails then who is at fault? The staff is at fault.
 
CoolBreeze said:
Awesome thread man let me tell you what. I really like to see everyone's opinions and very well articulated on both sides. But, let's be clear, this thread was inspired by a loss to our rival and the general feel of it is Jalen lost the game for us. He did not ladies and gentlemen and glad to see a couple of pages back those speaking about frustration by our running backs. Jalen is not the problem at all. This loss is completely in the hands of the coaching staff...not the QB or any other single player on the team. I love Saban because he evolves with the game. Sometimes, however, you have to revolve into what works and that is what I fully expect him to realize after this last debacle with barney. Run the ball and control the clock on offense. GMAC won a National Championship as a "game manager." We need to have Jalen manage a little more and control a little less and that should be our game planning in the future. If you set a man up for failure and he consequently fails then who is at fault? The staff is at fault.
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I don't know if it is as simple as telling Jalen to become a "game manager." Could GMac have run the RPO?

Staff rolled the dice last year on Jalen. Now, after two years, do they believe he's the best path forward?

It's an easy question if you have an unknown talent like Mac Jones as your #2. But the staff is in a tight spot because Tua is not your average backup qb. They know, to a large extent, what they have in him.

Spring, possibly bowl game, could get interesting.
 
BamaMoon said:
I don't know if it is as simple as telling Jalen to become a "game manager." Could GMac have run the RPO?

Staff rolled the dice last year on Jalen. Now, after two years, do they believe he's the best path forward?

It's an easy question if you have an unknown talent like Mac Jones as your #2. But the staff is in a tight spot because Tua is not your average backup qb. They know, to a large extent, what they have in him.

Spring, possibly bowl game, could get interesting.
Click to expand...

My point is that we won a National Championship with a game manager QB on an offense loaded with 4 & 5 star players. All Jalen has to do is get the ball in their hands more by game planning that way first then sprinkle some RPOs in there. We need more called run plays (not RPOs) - actually, a lot more of them - some called pass plays then a lot less RPOs for Jalen. Set up the pass with the run. That has been our buttered bread since the beginning of time.
 
TIDE-HSV said:
It has already hurt us. Past perfect tense...
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The good news - you are stocked at WR, TE and RB for 2 more years. Get this fixed in time to get next years recruits interested again and you are back in business.

At OSU we have gone through 3 years of poor passing, and we don't have a good WR left on our roster. Those from better passing classes have moved on to the NFL.
 
CoolBreeze said:
My point is that we won a National Championship with a game manager QB on an offense loaded with 4 & 5 star players. All Jalen has to do is get the ball in their hands more by game planning that way first then sprinkle some RPOs in there. We need more called run plays (not RPOs) - actually, a lot more of them - some called pass plays then a lot less RPOs for Jalen. Set up the pass with the run. That has been our buttered bread since the beginning of time.
Click to expand...
JMO, but you should get back to the pro spread. Forget RPOs. Call the plays and tell Jalen to execute the plays called. If he can't do it, move on.
 
CoolBreeze said:
Awesome thread man let me tell you what. I really like to see everyone's opinions and very well articulated on both sides. But, let's be clear, this thread was inspired by a loss to our rival and the general feel of it is Jalen lost the game for us. He did not ladies and gentlemen and glad to see a couple of pages back those speaking about frustration by our running backs. Jalen is not the problem at all. This loss is completely in the hands of the coaching staff...not the QB or any other single player on the team. I love Saban because he evolves with the game. Sometimes, however, you have to revolve into what works and that is what I fully expect him to realize after this last debacle with barney. Run the ball and control the clock on offense. GMAC won a National Championship as a "game manager." We need to have Jalen manage a little more and control a little less and that should be our game planning in the future. If you set a man up for failure and he consequently fails then who is at fault? The staff is at fault.
Click to expand...
In all that, you left out one huge factor - what the team thinks...
 
CoolBreeze said:
My point is that we won a National Championship with a game manager QB on an offense loaded with 4 & 5 star players. All Jalen has to do is get the ball in their hands more by game planning that way first then sprinkle some RPOs in there. We need more called run plays (not RPOs) - actually, a lot more of them - some called pass plays then a lot less RPOs for Jalen. Set up the pass with the run. That has been our buttered bread since the beginning of time.
Click to expand...

But what you'd be asking Jalen to do is execute the kind of pass plays he demonstrated he's not really good at. That's the bottleneck.

I agree with you that a game manager is good enough for us to win NC with all the talent around the qb. But the skill set of a game manager is not typically a guy who's really good at running and not very good at passing.
 
BamaMoon said:
But what you'd be asking Jalen to do is execute the kind of pass plays he demonstrated he's not really good at. That's the bottleneck.

I agree with you that a game manager is good enough for us to win NC with all the talent around the qb. But the skill set of a game manager is not typically a guy who's really good at running and not very good at passing.
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This is really the whole crux of this discussion.

We have too much talent to run RPO. We can run a pro-style offense and leverage the talent around us. In the backfield and on the perimeter we could be like the Saints offense right now. And I think with Saban's background and with Daboll's background, that's where we are going to lean. Which means Hurts has to become a better distributer of the ball or he risks his job.

I don't think they want to call plays that suit Hurts strengths, I think they want to run a pro-style offense because that's what they know how to do.

I think we are going to have a competition in the Spring and it wouldn't surprise me to see Tua come out on top because his skillset fits with what Saban and Daboll know better. He'll just need to watch the turnovers. A year of the kind of playing time he's had plus another spring, summer and fall and he'll be properly acclimated to college defenses (not to say he won't have turnovers.)

That's my prediction at least which will make some salty because if it happens that way it'll basically mean that Jalen never really got utilized the way they felt he should. That he didn't get a fair shake. And that may be true. But it just feels like a wonky fit right now and with a talented pro-style passer (I know Tua's rated as a dual-threat QB but we can all acknowledge the arm talent and see the way he handles the pocket and his progressions) sitting right there with a good amount of game experience, I wouldn't be surprised if he is given a real look.

My guess is that they install an updated offense this winter that leans even more heavily on pro-style concepts and if and when Hurts struggles they pull him for Tua.

My HOPE is that he shows all of us "what-fer" and aces those concepts and make huge leaps. I don't want to see a young man stripped of his position in that way, but I could see it occurring.
 
CoolBreeze said:
Agreed - and I assure you that he can do it.
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8030.FullSizeRender.jpg
 
Intl.Aperture said:
This is really the whole crux of this discussion.

We have too much talent to run RPO. We can run a pro-style offense and leverage the talent around us. In the backfield and on the perimeter we could be like the Saints offense right now. And I think with Saban's background and with Daboll's background, that's where we are going to lean. Which means Hurts has to become a better distributer of the ball or he risks his job.

I don't think they want to call plays that suit Hurts strengths, I think they want to run a pro-style offense because that's what they know how to do.

I think we are going to have a competition in the Spring and it wouldn't surprise me to see Tua come out on top because his skillset fits with what Saban and Daboll know better. He'll just need to watch the turnovers. A year of the kind of playing time he's had plus another spring, summer and fall and he'll be properly acclimated to college defenses (not to say he won't have turnovers.)

That's my prediction at least which will make some salty because if it happens that way it'll basically mean that Jalen never really got utilized the way they felt he should. That he didn't get a fair shake. And that may be true. But it just feels like a wonky fit right now and with a talented pro-style passer (I know Tua's rated as a dual-threat QB but we can all acknowledge the arm talent and see the way he handles the pocket and his progressions) sitting right there with a good amount of game experience, I wouldn't be surprised if he is given a real look.

My guess is that they install an updated offense this winter that leans even more heavily on pro-style concepts and if and when Hurts struggles they pull him for Tua.

My HOPE is that he shows all of us "what-fer" and aces those concepts and make huge leaps. I don't want to see a young man stripped of his position in that way, but I could see it occurring.
Click to expand...

Amen...if Jalen adjusts...more power to him! "Jalen Hurts" is not the issue, it's the production/distribution of the position that is the current concern!
 
TIDE-HSV said:
In all that, you left out one huge factor - what the team thinks...
Click to expand...

I mean, I have no clue about what is happening on the inside. Nick Saban is the Coach. If Coach tells Jalen to run the offense the way he wants it run then that is what Jalen will do or will be on the bench. The staff has created the issue and they can rectify it. They need to call run plays and call pass plays, maybe an RPO here or there but get back to the staff directing the ball into the hands of our playmakers and all will be good. You certainly know much more than I on what is going on inside the team but I submit that whatever damage has been done within the ranks of the team can be fixed quickly - I mean in a millisecond - if the coaches take the reigns of the offensive play calling onto themselves and out of Hurts hands.
 
CoolBreeze said:
I mean, I have no clue about what is happening on the inside. Nick Saban is the Coach. If Coach tells Jalen to run the offense the way he wants it run then that is what Jalen will do or will be on the bench. The staff has created the issue and they can rectify it. They need to call run plays and call pass plays, maybe an RPO here or there but get back to the staff directing the ball into the hands of our playmakers and all will be good. You certainly know much more than I on what is going on inside the team but I submit that whatever damage has been done within the ranks of the team can be fixed quickly - I mean in a millisecond - if the coaches take the reigns of the offensive play calling onto themselves and out of Hurts hands.
Click to expand...
And factor in that people can be swayed. Some may be upset at Jalen right now but that doesn't mean things stay that way.

Please, those with intimate knowledge, know that I'm just talking hypothetically about the nature of relationships between young men on a sports team.

Relationships are malleable and kinetic. There are a myriad of ways in which Hurts, intangibly, could make things better or worse for himself on and off the field.
This is where we are right now but everything could change after we play our next game.
 
CoolBreeze said:
I mean, I have no clue about what is happening on the inside. Nick Saban is the Coach. If Coach tells Jalen to run the offense the way he wants it run then that is what Jalen will do or will be on the bench. The staff has created the issue and they can rectify it. They need to call run plays and call pass plays, maybe an RPO here or there but get back to the staff directing the ball into the hands of our playmakers and all will be good. You certainly know much more than I on what is going on inside the team but I submit that whatever damage has been done within the ranks of the team can be fixed quickly - I mean in a millisecond - if the coaches take the reigns of the offensive play calling onto themselves and out of Hurts hands.
Click to expand...

There are some people here who have some "insider" access.
 
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