Russia Invades Ukraine VII

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Its On A Slab

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Well, Act Two is about to begin and it may be the big one. Putin has now consolidated his army, when his blitzkrieg fell on its face. I think the main question is just how rotten the Russian army really is. Putin's plea yesterday for vets up to the age of 60 to reup, plus his mercenaries, is very telling...
Victory Day in Moscow is coming up in a little over a month.

This year, they might as well have clowns riding in miniature cars, riding in circles with loud honking horns.

Gen. Shoigu dressed as Ronald McDonald.
 

uafanataum

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Well, Act Two is about to begin and it may be the big one. Putin has now consolidated his army, when his blitzkrieg fell on its face. I think the main question is just how rotten the Russian army really is. Putin's plea yesterday for vets up to the age of 60 to reup, plus his mercenaries, is very telling...
If Russia concentrates all of its effort in Donbass I cannot see them losing. Part of the problem with taking over Ukraine was it's size. Donbass is only about 4% of the landmass of Ukraine. I wonder if Putin would count winning that region as a victory?
 

crimsonaudio

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If Russia concentrates all of its effort in Donbass I cannot see them losing. Part of the problem with taking over Ukraine was it's size. Donbass is only about 4% of the landmass of Ukraine. I wonder if Putin would count winning that region as a victory?
Putin wants the oil, which is eastern and southern Ukraine. He basically already had the Donbas region, he's really pushing for the south at this point (best guess) - this is where all the oil is.
 

BamaFlum

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Putin wants the oil, which is eastern and southern Ukraine. He basically already had the Donbas region, he's really pushing for the south at this point (best guess) - this is where all the oil is.
Could the Ukrainians move forces to counter the “Soviets” from taking the oil fields now that Kyiv is a victory?
 

Go Bama

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Putin wants the oil, which is eastern and southern Ukraine. He basically already had the Donbas region, he's really pushing for the south at this point (best guess) - this is where all the oil is.
I'm not sure the oil is the motivating factor. Rather than fighting on two fronts, he's concentrating all effort on one front with intentions of advancing west until he consumes the whole of Ukraine. It's still all of Ukraine that Putin wants.

I stand to be corrected.
 

TIDE-HSV

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I'm not sure the oil is the motivating factor. Rather than fighting on two fronts, he's concentrating all effort on one front with intentions of advancing west until he consumes the whole of Ukraine. It's still all of Ukraine that Putin wants.

I stand to be corrected.
There's no doubt that's what he wants. He doesn't begin to have enough army, effective army, to accomplish it. Some of the generals advising on CNN were saying that from the beginning, and they were right...
 
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crimsonaudio

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I'm not sure the oil is the motivating factor. Rather than fighting on two fronts, he's concentrating all effort on one front with intentions of advancing west until he consumes the whole of Ukraine. It's still all of Ukraine that Putin wants.

I stand to be corrected.
Sure, he's 'losing', but someone posted an article earlier in this discussion about whether Putin was rebuffed by the Ukrainians or was planning this all along in order to weaken the infrastructure so the east and south were easier to take.

Keep in mind there are MASSIVE oil and NG deposits in and off the shore of Ukraine:
Excluding Russia’s gas reserves in Asia, Ukraine today holds the second biggest known gas reserves in Europe. As of late 2019, known Ukrainian reserves amounted to 1.09 trillion cubic meters of natural gas, second only to Norway’s known resources of 1.53 trillion cubic meters. Yet, these enormous reserves of energy remain largely untapped. Today, Ukraine has a low annual reserve usage rate of about 2 percent. Moreover, more active exploration may yield previously undiscovered gas fields, which would further increase the overall volume of Ukraine’s deposits.

It's easy to call him crazy, possibly even lazy to do so. Right now people are talking about 'settling' and letting Russia keep its modest gains in the east and south of Ukraine, in addition to Crimea. This is where a vast majority of the oil and NG fields are.
 

crimsonaudio

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Could the Ukrainians move forces to counter the “Soviets” from taking the oil fields now that Kyiv is a victory?
Depends entirely on whether the wins we've seen so far are legitimate or part of the 'show'.

If Putin were planning this all along, I suspect we'll see a very different outcome in the east (and south).
 

TIDE-HSV

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Depends entirely on whether the wins we've seen so far are legitimate or part of the 'show'.

If Putin were planning this all along, I suspect we'll see a very different outcome in the east (and south).
I've heard the "show" theory, but I don't buy it. He paid too high a price in men and material for that to be true. What I believe is that he had no idea, not being a strategist, that the advice he was receiving was as rotten as his short-term army. When it became obvious that all he could do was batter it to the ground, as he has other cities, For him, Kyiv is the birthing cradle of Russian culture. He's written extensively on it and Ukraine's right to exist, other than as a dialect region of Russia. I don't think he's given up on acquiring it long-term, just not by this operation. He can declare it "victory" at any point now, if, as you say, he can hold on to his gains in the south. One thing's for sure. Ukraine is not safe so long as Putin lives...
 

crimsonaudio

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I've heard the "show" theory, but I don't buy it. He paid too high a price in men and material for that to be true.
The theory is likely incorrect - the logical answer is he didn't expect to get his butt kicked - but I don't think he cares at all about the loss of men or equipment. Not one bit.

What I believe is that he had no idea, not being a strategist, that the advice he was receiving was as rotten as his short-term army. When it became obvious that all he could do was batter it to the ground, as he has other cities, For him, Kyiv is the birthing cradle of Russian culture. He's written extensively on it and Ukraine's right to exist, other than as a dialect region of Russia. I don't think he's given up on acquiring it long-term, just not by this operation. He can declare it "victory" at any point now, if, as you say, he can hold on to his gains in the south. One thing's for sure. Ukraine is not safe so long as Putin lives...
Agreed.

But ultimately, there's an incredible amount of oil/NG in Ukraine that's untapped, and that's been RU's bread-and-butter for a long time now.
 
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