The Church Thread: Chapter I Verse I

[CrimsonJazz]

This thread may bomb, but I thought it would be interesting to have a catch-all thread about churches around the world. As someone who is considering becoming a Christian, I am attracted to news stories about the modern church. Churches are having to change as society changes and this interests me a great deal. It doesn't all have to be doom and gloom and there's already a sex abuse thread for that awful subject. So yeah, good news, bad news, anything discussion-worthy is game. Theology, too, for that matter.

I found this article and my eyebrows raised immediately. If there are any Anglicans here, I'd especially like your take on this:
Church of England dropping word ‘church’ to be more ‘modern’

The Centre for Church Planting Theology and Research looked at the language used by 11 dioceses to describe new churches.

The creation of a new church group is traditionally referred to as a “church plant”. But the report found that while 900 new churches had been started by the dioceses in the past decade, none had used the phrase “church plant” as the primary way to describe the project.

The report’s author, Rev Dr Will Foulger, vicar of St Nicholas in Durham, found that six of the 11 dioceses used the language of “worship” in their main descriptor of new church projects, two used “congregation”, and seven used “community”.

Dr Giles Fraser, vicar of St Anne’s, Kew, told The Telegraph that this apparent reluctance to use the word “church” reflects “a misplaced desire to be relevant and modern-sounding”.

 

[Padreruf]

Community is the new buzzword...church has too many negative connotations, as does denominational affiliation. Try to learn all you can about the group, their basic statement of faith -- and how tolerant they are of differing viewpoints, and especially how/where/when they engage in mission projects -- home and abroad. As far as possible you are looking for a good match with your beliefs/perspectives in these areas.

The Church of England, i.e., Anglican or Episcopal, is dying except in Africa as far as I know. So are most mainline Protestant churches, not to mention that evangelicals are now beginning to see that same slide. We are definitely living in a post-Christian culture and no one knows how long it will last. There are historical antecedents which imply that a cross-cultural "revival" of faith will be required to stop this trend.

 

[Tidewater]

The Church of England, i.e., Anglican or Episcopal, is dying except in Africa as far as I know. So are most mainline Protestant churches, not to mention that evangelicals are now beginning to see that same slide. We are definitely living in a post-Christian culture and no one knows how long it will last. There are historical antecedents which imply that a cross-cultural "revival" of faith will be required to stop this trend.

When I was living in England, I met missionaries from Africa who had come to bring Christianity to the people in the UK.

 

[AUDub]

As someone who is considering becoming a Christian, I am attracted to news stories about the modern church. Churches are having to change as society changes and this interests me a great deal.

Don’t talk to terminally online Catholics about this or you’ll hear all kinds of stupid buzzwords like “modernist heresy” and the like. Our online presence is, uh, unique. Lot of toxic trad Caths.

If you’re truly interested go to your local parish (yes, we rarely use the word “church” to refer to the building either) and talk to a priest. A good priest will have his door open and be willing to help, and they’re smart and kind.

I’ve mentioned it in the past but our parish priest is Fr. Gerald Holloway. On a Bama forum that might ring some bells lol. He’s a good man.

 

[oskie]

<snip>...
Church of England dropping word ‘church’ to be more ‘modern’

Will they now just be known as * of England *

 

[CrimsonJazz]

Community is the new buzzword...church has too many negative connotations, as does denominational affiliation. Try to learn all you can about the group, their basic statement of faith -- and how tolerant they are of differing viewpoints, and especially how/where/when they engage in mission projects -- home and abroad. As far as possible you are looking for a good match with your beliefs/perspectives in these areas.

The Church of England, i.e., Anglican or Episcopal, is dying except in Africa as far as I know. So are most mainline Protestant churches, not to mention that evangelicals are now beginning to see that same slide. We are definitely living in a post-Christian culture and no one knows how long it will last. There are historical antecedents which imply that a cross-cultural "revival" of faith will be required to stop this trend.

I agree wholeheartedly. I was raised in an Evangelical tradition, but Christianity lost all credibility with me when I saw that the landscape had been completed littered with competing denominations, all teaching something different. When I voiced these concerns, people would tell me that yeah, there are some differences, but they all agree on "the important things" (which I eventually discovered isn't true either.)

When I went to college, I minored in world religion at Huntingdon College. There were a LOT of smart people teaching these topics and the more I learned about church history, the more my views started to change a bit. However, it was more academic than personal and it stayed that way for quite some time.

Like everyone else, I've been through a lot of stuff and much of it has started to get my mind pointed toward what happens next. I have a bum ticker and one of these days, I'll simply be gone. Needless to say, this occupies my mind a great deal. I got married again in 2021 and I have dutifully gone to church with my wife every weekend since. This has been a good kick-start back into spirituality.

I've been reading a lot since then, but the catalyst for this thread was a song I heard the other night for the first time called, "I Need a Favor" by a chap named Jelly Roll. While Mr. Roll doesn't know it, this song almost literally knocked me down. I've been thinking very, very hard since. I appreciate your contribution.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

Don’t talk to terminally online Catholics about this or you’ll hear all kinds of stupid buzzwords like “modernist heresy” and the like. Our online presence is, uh, unique. Lot of toxic trad Caths.

If you’re truly interested go to your local parish (yes, we rarely use the word “church” to refer to the building either) and talk to a priest. A good priest will have his door open and be willing to help, and they’re smart and kind.

I’ve mentioned it in the past but our parish priest is Fr. Gerald Holloway. On a Bama forum that might ring some bells lol. He’s a good man.

Believe me, I'm familiar with these people. And while I don't want to turn the clock back to some pre-Vatican II church, I do love to see a Latin Mass. It's unquestionably more worshipful than the Novus Ordo. Our priest is a nice guy and he has been helpful. My wife's nephew is a Jesuit and I can't have a single conversation with him without walking away in awe of how incredibly intelligent and knowledgeable he is.

And I probably should have led with this, but my wife is Catholic, so that's where we go every weekend. It's kind of funny that I know more about Catholic theology than she does due to my academic background.

 

[Tidewater]

The former Dean of the UVA School of Divinity (in communion with the Bishop of Rome) once showed me this:

and told me, "This is what you get without an ordained central authority."
Touché, Dean.

 

[Jon]

The former Dean of the UVA School of Divinity (in communion with the Bishop of Rome) once showed me this:
View attachment 44982
and told me, "This is what you get without an ordained central authority."
Touché, Dean.

I want to see this tree going back earlier to the pre-christian religions that it all came from

 

[Maudiemae]

The former Dean of the UVA School of Divinity (in communion with the Bishop of Rome) once showed me this:
View attachment 44982
and told me, "This is what you get without an ordained central authority."
Touché, Dean.

I think that's probably what you get with humans, period. Cultures and societies change with time and events. We begin to look at things differently and it seems to just happen within all religions. And then, there are so many people who go their own way.

 

[Jon]

I want to see this tree going back earlier to the pre-christian religions that it all came from

replying to myself to share a good one I found

World Religions Tree

 

[Go Bama]

replying to myself to share a good one I found

World Religions Tree

Dang, Jon, that's an impressive tree. My curiosity will have me spending some time studying this tree.

 

[Jon]

Dang, Jon, that's an impressive tree. My curiosity will have me spending some time studying this tree.

I had seen this year and years ago but spent a good hour following branches the first time I found it.

 

[Padreruf]

That is insane...thanks for sharing. We humans are incredibly religious..

 

[Tidewater]

I think that's probably what you get with humans, period. Cultures and societies change with time and events. We begin to look at things differently and it seems to just happen within all religions. And then, there are so many people who go their own way.

True.
This was just a Roman Catholic poking some good-natured fun at his Protestant friends.

 

[Tidewater]

I want to see this tree going back earlier to the pre-christian religions that it all came from

Might be interesting.

 

[Tidewater]

I was raised in an Evangelical tradition, but Christianity lost all credibility with me when I saw that the landscape had been completed littered with competing denominations, all teaching something different.

I imagine Christ meeting the contentious at the pearly gates and saying, "Wait, you killed each other over your differing views on transubstantiation and 'filioque?' How about the part where I said 'love one another as I have loved you?' Why does the former completely outweigh the latter?"

 

[CrimsonJazz]

I imagine Christ meeting the contentious at the pearly gates and saying, "Wait, you killed each other over your differing views on transubstantiation and "filioque?" How about the part where I said "love one another as I have loved you?" Why does the former completely outweigh the latter?

I think most people who have studied church history have asked themselves the same question. I know I have. When I turned towards agnosticism, people weren’t killing each other, I just couldn’t reconcile what I was seeing. Imagine seeing actual bloodshed!

 

[Bubbaloo]

When I was living in England, I met missionaries from Africa who had come to bring Christianity to the people in the UK.

That area is ripe for conversion of many different religions---just saying.

 

[Tidewater]

That area is ripe for conversion of many different religions---just saying.

True, but Buddhism, Shinto, Hinduism do not have the injunction to love your neighbors as Christ loved you.

I'm not naive enough to say that the Spanish Armada was about transubstantiation or the primacy of the Bishop of Rome. It was two major Europeans powers going at it over politics and religion was overlaid on the pre-existing conflict. Religion may have intensified the emotions, but it was about politics. North Ireland vs the Britain was not about Rome vs Canterbury. It was Irish nationalism versus British nationalism and Catholic vs Protestant was overlaid on that conflict.