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Government Shutdown

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CrimsonJazz said:
I had a fellow at Best Buy explain this to me years ago. The TVs they sell at Wal-Mart might as well be knock-offs, even if they are made by the same company.
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It's one of the reasons I avoid WalMart. Besides the chaos and People Of WalMart(IYKYK!). For anything technical like a TV or laptop, I would never trust that it is even remotely the real deal. I think the only thing I will go there for is peanut butter. For some reason my local grocery store stopped stocking Skippy Natural Honey Peanut Butter. That stuff is like crack cocaine to me. I eat a PB and Banana sammie nearly every day for lunch. :D
 
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Huckleberry said:
I’m pretty sure the leverage she’s referring to is this being the only real way they can try to get the ACA tax credits extended. She’s likely saying that the short-term pain is preferable to the long-term effects of millions being unable to afford health insurance.
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For the record, I agree with you.
This level of discernment is commendable and might be useful in understanding what other political figures mean, especially ones we might disagree with.
 
Bamabuzzard said:
I'm legitimately asking this question and not being snarky. But I thought someone posted on here a few weeks ago a piece of the budget or bill that showed there was no healthcare in the budget for illegal immigrants. That it was just rhetoric coming from the GOP side.

View attachment 54005
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The confusion is that Medicare reimburses hospitals for emergency care of indigent people, regardless of whether they are a citizen or not. Many undocumented immigrants go to the hospital for health care because they know they won't be turned away. So, yes, the US is indirectly paying for undocumented immigrant health care. It's all an argument about semantics. What do you expect from a body that consists of mostly lawyers.
 
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75thru79 said:
The confusion is that Medicare reimburses hospitals for emergency care of indigent people, regardless of whether they are a citizen or not. Many undocumented immigrants go to the hospital for health care because they know they won't be turned away. So, yes, the US is indirectly paying for undocumented immigrant health care. It's all an argument about semantics. What do you expect from a body that consists of mostly lawyers.
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Okay, that makes sense. It's a loophole/flaw in our system.
 
75thru79 said:
So, yes, the US is indirectly paying for undocumented immigrant health care. It's all an argument about semantics. What do you expect from a body that consists of mostly lawyers.
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There's semantics, and then there's facts. This is not a matter of semantics.

The GOP argument isn't that the US is indirectly paying for undocumented immigrant health care.

The GOP argument is that the democrats refuse to negotiate because they want 1.5 trillion for undocumented immigrant health care--and that is patently false.
 
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jthomas666 said:
The GOP argument is that the democrats refuse to negotiate because they want 1.5 trillion for undocumented immigrant health care--and that is patently false.
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That's not what I heard. I heard that the democrats refuse to negotiate because they want 1.5 trillion for health care, which includes undocumented immigrants. No, the ACA credits aren't for illegals but Medicare reimbursements for the illegal's use of emergency rooms is included in the 1.5 trillion. Facts are facts.
 
75thru79 said:
That's not what I heard. I heard that the democrats refuse to negotiate because they want 1.5 trillion for health care, which includes undocumented immigrants. No, the ACA credits aren't for illegals but Medicare reimbursements for the illegal's use of emergency rooms is included in the 1.5 trillion. Facts are facts.
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Doesn't it have to be a true emergency for the reimbursement to occur?
 
75thru79 said:
That's not what I heard. I heard that the democrats refuse to negotiate because they want 1.5 trillion for health care, which includes undocumented immigrants. No, the ACA credits aren't for illegals but Medicare reimbursements for the illegal's use of emergency rooms is included in the 1.5 trillion. Facts are facts.
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You’ve heard wrong. If you have sources that prove your point, please post them with proper quotes.

Here are the facts:
"Senate Democrats have been pushing for an extension of health insurance tax credits in exchange for their support to reopen the government. "

www.cbsnews.com

Government shutdown live updates as senators express cautious optimism about talks

Senate Majority Leader John Thune said talks among rank-and-file senators aimed at ending the government shutdown have ramped up. Follow live updates here.
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com

Since illegals can’t receive tax credits, the democratic demands have nothing to do with the illegals.
 
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75thru79 said:
That's not what I heard. I heard that the democrats refuse to negotiate because they want 1.5 trillion for health care, which includes undocumented immigrants. No, the ACA credits aren't for illegals but Medicare reimbursements for the illegal's use of emergency rooms is included in the 1.5 trillion. Facts are facts.
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I can't help it if you have bad sources.

Illegal immigrants are not eligible for Medicare. Their use of ERs in , you know, emergencies, is based on the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA), which requires hospitals to provide emergency medical care to anyone in need of it, regardless of immigration status, ability to pay, or insurance coverage. The law is rooted in the ethical principle that all people should receive life-saving care in a crisis. It prevents hospitals from delaying or denying treatment while they try to determine a patient's legal status or ability to pay. The act protects the poor; illegal immigrants who fall under that umbrella receive emergency health care.

Would you like to see the law amended to ensure that illegals cannot receive care? To do so would probably require that all ERs have the ability to quickly check people's immigration status; that's likely to cost a pretty penny (I'm guessing you wouldn't want to just use immigration papers, as they can be easily forged), and even then people in a medical crisis will have to wait while their immigration status is confirmed--the exact type of delay EMTALA was passed to prevent.

www.pbs.org

Fact-checking what politicians are saying about the 2025 government shutdown

When Congress can’t reach a funding agreement, both sides of the political aisle whip up talking points about what a shutdown means for the economy, immigration, worker paychecks, disaster response and services for low-income families. The blame is nearly always placed on the other party.
www.pbs.org www.pbs.org

Towner also said the Democrats’ provision to make the enhanced ACA subsidies permanent would cost about $350 billion over a decade.
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and again, illegal immigrants are not eligible for ACA.

Now, about that $1.5 trillion:
The Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, a group that’s hawkish on the deficit, said in a Sept. 18 press release that Democrats’ proposal in its entirety would add $1.5 trillion to the national debt over the next decade.
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Now, do we need to take steps to get the budget under control? Absolutely.

Should our first steps in that direction be to deprive illegal immigrant of emergency healthcare? Maybe you think they should. Me, I think that such action will likely not result in much savings. Now, the Trump tax cuts? Extending them is going to cost us $4-4.5 trillion over the next ten years. That might result in a more substantive gain.
 
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jthomas666 said:
I can't help it if you have bad sources.

Illegal immigrants are not eligible for Medicare. Their use of ERs in , you know, emergencies, is based on the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA), which requires hospitals to provide emergency medical care to anyone in need of it, regardless of immigration status, ability to pay, or insurance coverage. The law is rooted in the ethical principle that all people should receive life-saving care in a crisis. It prevents hospitals from delaying or denying treatment while they try to determine a patient's legal status or ability to pay. The act protects the poor; illegal immigrants who fall under that umbrella receive emergency health care.

Would you like to see the law amended to ensure that illegals cannot receive care? To do so would probably require that all ERs have the ability to quickly check people's immigration status; that's likely to cost a pretty penny (I'm guessing you wouldn't want to just use immigration papers, as they can be easily forged), and even then people in a medical crisis will have to wait while their immigration status is confirmed--the exact type of delay EMTALA was passed to prevent.

www.pbs.org

Fact-checking what politicians are saying about the 2025 government shutdown

When Congress can’t reach a funding agreement, both sides of the political aisle whip up talking points about what a shutdown means for the economy, immigration, worker paychecks, disaster response and services for low-income families. The blame is nearly always placed on the other party.
www.pbs.org www.pbs.org


and again, illegal immigrants are not eligible for ACA.

Now, about that $1.5 trillion:

Now, do we need to take steps to get the budget under control? Absolutely.

Should our first steps in that direction be to deprive illegal immigrant of emergency healthcare? Maybe you think they should. Me, I think that such action will likely not result in much savings. Now, the Trump tax cuts? Extending them is going to cost us $4-4.5 trillion over the next ten years. That might result in a more substantive gain.
Click to expand...
Whether they're true or false (almost always false), nothing trumps Republican talking points, especially with those who agree with the current administration and/or absolutely hate Democrats. It's how the base keeps itself riled up and amazingly deluded.
 
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See the Republicans win with a government shutdown and Trump accumulates more power during the shutdown and Congress becomes weaker.

The Democrats after another couple of weeks right before Thanskgiving should agree to re-open the government when SNAP recipients have gone without food for a couple weeks.

They should make a big show they are relying on the good faith of the Republicans to pass an extension of the ACA credits and come up with plan to stabilize healthcare, we have been hearing about it for 20 years, let's see the plan. Knowing good and well they won't negotiate in good faith and will not ever deliver a plan for healthcare access/affordability.

But reopening the government, the Speaker must seat the Arizona Rep who will be the 218 vote to release the Epstein files.

The best outcome the Democrats can hope for is a re-opened government, released Epstein files, and a platform showing how the whole cabal of Republicans are heartless, lying thieves who doubled the cost of healthcare for every American and probably 80-100 million with no healthcare due to affordability. Sit and watch national healthcare collapse in on itself.

But extension of the ACA tax credits is unobtainable in this fight.

The Democrats thought abortion would be the proverbial dog catching the tire. It wasn't because not enough people have a personal interaction with abortion to care whether it's available or not. But healthcare access and affordability for every American may be the dog catching the tire. Throw in SNAP benefits acess as the sprinkles on top. At a time when the nation's demographic is at its oldest.

Set the trap for the Republicans and the Democrats may wind up with everything they have been wanting with a change of power, nationalized healthcare, nationwide abortion access, restored voting rights, an impeached President.
 
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