The Church Thread: Chapter I Verse 2?

[TIDE-HSV]

Yeah they should. I'm blessed to be in a church that does. We had a 5 week Hermeneutics class this past Spring, and will be starting a study on Christian Cults and World Religions soon. That will be on Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Islam. We will break down each religions major teachings and compare them to the historical Christianity. This will allow people to understand what they believe and why compared to other faiths. We are then doing a study on where the Bible came from and following that one up with a study on evolution vs. intelligent design. There is also one planned on basic apologetics. We will deal with the problem of evil, the cosmological argument and so forth. The idea is to help people ground themselves in a Christian worldview.

I taught senior high Sunday School for about five years and enjoyed it immensely. Once, I organized a class along the lines you outline. I explained carefully, that it was not an opportunity to proselytize, just an educational experience for my students to look into other religions for insight. One pair was a couple of Mormon kids on mission. They agreed to the conditions. Their pledge lasted all of about five minutes before they launched into their script. I just said "Hold it right there." I re-explained the conditions and asked them if they could abide by their words or if they had been just deliberately lying to me to get a foot in the door. That stung, I could tell. They apologized and a genuine discussion ensued, some of the basics of the origin of Mormonism (didn't get into the required holy underwear, etc.), and they opened up, finally about their reasons for following the religion (largely because of family) and their fears in being in their situation. Their biggest fear? "Losing their faith." Interestingly enough, in the wrap-up, with just my class, Mormonism was the faith they had the hardest time really understanding and developing an empathy for. One remark I remember was to the effect "The whole thing is just so unlikely!" Now, these were UMC kids, so by definition almost, what evangelicals would call "liberal protestants" (or worse). However, the UMC does not deny the possibility of present day miracles in real time. One them which seemed to develop on its own (I made an attempt not to inject my own opinion and guided as little as possible.) The class was roughly divided between girls and boys. It came from the girls more, but the boys agreed - the religious tenets of the religion seemed to be arranged largely for the convenience and comfort of the male gender, from its inception. This has to be seen from the perspective of the 70s, when there was a great awakening of feminism and women's rights...

 

[crimsonaudio]

 

[AWRTR]

I taught senior high Sunday School for about five years and enjoyed it immensely. Once, I organized a class along the lines you outline. I explained carefully, that it was not an opportunity to proselytize, just an educational experience for my students to look into other religions for insight. One pair was a couple of Mormon kids on mission. They agreed to the conditions. Their pledge lasted all of about five minutes before they launched into their script. I just said "Hold it right there." I re-explained the conditions and asked them if they could abide by their words or if they had been just deliberately lying to me to get a foot in the door. That stung, I could tell. They apologized and a genuine discussion ensued, some of the basics of the origin of Mormonism (didn't get into the required holy underwear, etc.), and they opened up, finally about their reasons for following the religion (largely because of family) and their fears in being in their situation. Their biggest fear? "Losing their faith." Interestingly enough, in the wrap-up, with just my class, Mormonism was the faith they had the hardest time really understanding and developing an empathy for. One remark I remember was to the effect "The whole thing is just so unlikely!" Now, these were UMC kids, so by definition almost, what evangelicals would call "liberal protestants" (or worse). However, the UMC does not deny the possibility of present day miracles in real time. One them which seemed to develop on its own (I made an attempt not to inject my own opinion and guided as little as possible.) The class was roughly divided between girls and boys. It came from the girls more, but the boys agreed - the religious tenets of the religion seemed to be arranged largely for the convenience and comfort of the male gender, from its inception. This has to be seen from the perspective of the 70s, when there was a great awakening of feminism and women's rights...

I've done some extensive research into Mormonism over the years and it has some pretty interesting aspects to say the least. I have a friend that left the Mormon church as an adult and it didn't go well with his family at all. The church itself pursued him for quite some time in an attempt to get him back on board. I understand those young men's fears.

 

[AWRTR]

That sounds fantastic! True, there are countless videos on Youtube that cover topics such as these, but I find that this works better in a group setting where we can bounce ideas off one another. Just as importantly, talking it out helps a persons capacity for reason and how to use it effectively.

There is something more impactful about doing these things in person. I'm the same way with church attendance overall. It's great to livestream or record and post later for people that are unable to be there for legitimate reasons, but if you can be at church the personal experience of hearing things live and being able to discuss and ask questions in smaller groups is so much better. There is also a trust factor and the personal relationships developed in the church. We aren't designed to live life alone. We are designed for groups and personal connections. When you remove people from that it causes societal problems. We are seeing that even now.

 

[PaulD]

There is something more impactful about doing these things in person. I'm the same way with church attendance overall. It's great to livestream or record and post later for people that are unable to be there for legitimate reasons, but if you can be at church the personal experience of hearing things live and being able to discuss and ask questions in smaller groups is so much better. There is also a trust factor and the personal relationships developed in the church. We aren't designed to live life alone. We are designed for groups and personal connections. When you remove people from that it causes societal problems. We are seeing that even now.

We (Episcopal) live stream our Sunday service for those who are ill, elderly or away, but it is hard to send the bread and wine over the internet! (We do have eucharistic visitors who go visit people at home or in medical facilities and take the sacraments to them.)

 

[AWRTR]

We (Episcopal) live stream our Sunday service for those who are ill, elderly or away, but it is hard to send the bread and wine over the internet! (We do have eucharistic visitors who go visit people at home or in medical facilities and take the sacraments to them.)

I grew up baptist and my grandfather was homebound with some pretty serious medical issues. The pastor would come over and serve the Lord's Supper/Communion to them personally. I was there as a little boy when he came a few times. Looking back it was so kind of him to take time out from all the other things he had on his plate to do that.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

I've done some extensive research into Mormonism over the years and it has some pretty interesting aspects to say the least. I have a friend that left the Mormon church as an adult and it didn't go well with his family at all. The church itself pursued him for quite some time in an attempt to get him back on board. I understand those young men's fears.

Back when I was rehabbing my ACL, the orthopedic group I was using had a prominent Mormon physiatrist running it. His manager, a young woman was also Mormon and I was always waiting outside at 5:00 AM when they opened. They made it available to their Mormon missionaries at that hour. Most of them actually worked out. They had a large TV operating with the morning news. One poor little fellow, who looked to be 16, although I know their minimum age is 18 + HS graduation. He planted himself below the suspended TV and just stared at it wistfully for an hour. I often wondered why he'd volunteered and if he'd stayed Mormon. The manageress was 30s and pretty and very slight. I was working hard on the leg press. I was up to 750lb, on my way to 1,000 eventually, until my doctor told me I was hurting more than helping. One morning, it was just she and I there and I called her back to the machine. She thought I wanted her to spot me. She said "Mr. Self, I hope you realize there's nothing I could do to help you." I replied "Hon, I know that. I just wanted you to be alert if I yelled 'CALL 911'"...

 

[AWRTR]

Back when I was rehabbing my ACL, the orthopedic group I was using had a prominent Mormon physiatrist running it. His manager, a young woman was also Mormon and I was always waiting outside at 5:00 AM when they opened. They made it available to their Mormon missionaries at that hour. Most of them actually worked out. They had a large TV operating with the morning news. One poor little fellow, who looked to be 16, although I know their minimum age is 18 + HS graduation. He planted himself below the suspended TV and just stared at it wistfully for an hour. I often wondered why he'd volunteered and if he'd stayed Mormon. The manageress was 30s and pretty and very slight. I was working hard on the leg press. I was up to 750lb, on my way to 1,000 eventually, until my doctor told me I was hurting more than helping. One morning, it was just she and I there and I called her back to the machine. She thought I wanted her to spot me. She said "Mr. Self, I hope you realize there's nothing I could do to help you." I replied "Hon, I know that. I just wanted you to be alert if I yelled 'CALL 911'"...

The pressure to conform or possibly lose the vast majority of your social circle and possibly your family connections has to be tremendous. I've had friends and acquaintances leave the Christian faith over the years and I've always made it a point to continue the relationship if I could. I would say I'm a pretty dedicated Christian by most people's standards. I'm nothing compared to so many that have come before me and the millions of persecuted believers all over the world today, but I want to keep the lines of communication open and still let them know I'm their friend no matter what they may believe at the moment. I feel it shows how a Christian should show love and care.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

The pressure to conform or possibly lose the vast majority of your social circle and possibly your family connections has to be tremendous. I've had friends and acquaintances leave the Christian faith over the years and I've always made it a point to continue the relationship if I could. I would say I'm a pretty dedicated Christian by most people's standards. I'm nothing compared to so many that have come before me and the millions of persecuted believers all over the world today, but I want to keep the lines of communication open and still let them know I'm their friend no matter what they may believe at the moment. I feel it shows how a Christian should show love and care.

When word got around that I had gotten baptized into the Catholic Church, it was amazing how many people made a point to criticize my decision. I had some atheist friends who were rather vocal and some agnostic friends who, true to form, didn't care one way or the other. The ones who surprised me the most were the self-described Christian friends and relatives who were absolutely convinced I'd just damned my soul for all eternity. (Never mind the fact that I could easily destroy 98% of these people in a theological debate without breaking a sweat.) I'm pretty thick-skinned, so most of this stuff just bounced right off of me.

The worst thing of all though, was when a woman from my mother's Baptist church recognized my wife at Wal-Mart. She walked right up to my wife and congratulated her on leading a "good soul" down Satan's path. "That is fine for you, but did you have to take him with you?" Now my wife has dealt with racism and bigotry her whole life, but this was a first and she cried when she told me about it. A quick call to my mother was all it took to prove to my wife that mom would never approve of such a thing and furthermore, she was happy I was in church AT ALL. Reassurances were made that the nasty lady from church would not be getting invited to any more gatherings hosted by my parents.

I guess I knew this sort of thing was coming; Lord knows, I was warned about that well ahead of time. And knowing most of the people from mom's church, I can honestly say that most don't mention it when I run into them. Either because they don't really care or because word gets around what can happen when you **** off my mother. (Even at her age, she's still got that mama bear energy.)

 

[arthurdawg]

When word got around that I had gotten baptized into the Catholic Church, it was amazing how many people made a point to criticize my decision. I had some atheist friends who were rather vocal and some agnostic friends who, true to form, didn't care one way or the other. The ones who surprised me the most were the self-described Christian friends and relatives who were absolutely convinced I'd just damned my soul for all eternity. (Never mind the fact that I could easily destroy 98% of these people in a theological debate without breaking a sweat.) I'm pretty thick-skinned, so most of this stuff just bounced right off of me.

The worst thing of all though, was when a woman from my mother's Baptist church recognized my wife at Wal-Mart. She walked right up to my wife and congratulated her on leading a "good soul" down Satan's path. "That is fine for you, but did you have to take him with you?" Now my wife has dealt with racism and bigotry her whole life, but this was a first and she cried when she told me about it. A quick call to my mother was all it took to prove to my wife that mom would never approve of such a thing and furthermore, she was happy I was in church AT ALL. Reassurances were made that the nasty lady from church would not be getting invited to any more gatherings hosted by my parents.

I guess I knew this sort of thing was coming; Lord knows, I was warned about that well ahead of time. And knowing most of the people from mom's church, I can honestly say that most don't mention it when I run into them. Either because they don't really care or because word gets around what can happen when you **** off my mother. (Even at her age, she's still got that mama bear energy.)

One of the worst moments of my life was when by ex and her family insisted we all go to a wedding that occured during the first half of the 2009 SEC game.

Then... during the ceremony... the minister literally starts preaching about how terrible the groom's former girlfriend was because she was Catholic and wanted them to be "unequally yoked..." The groom broke up with her because he wasn't Catholic and wanted her to convert to whatever bizarre strain he was.

We didn't stay for the reception as the anti-Catholic speech grew ever more strident. I'm not Catholic but thought it was in very poor taste and have lots of friends who are Catholic and plenty of other faiths. Plus I was hacked that I missed the first half of one of the greatest games we ever played.

 

[crimsonaudio]

People take Matthew 7:1 out of context all the time and it saddens me, as they really miss what it's telling them.

I have issues with Catholicism, but AFAIC, if you're a Christian, you're my brother. I'll let God decide where the lines are drawn, but I know I need all the grace I can get...

 

[TIDE-HSV]

The pressure to conform or possibly lose the vast majority of your social circle and possibly your family connections has to be tremendous. I've had friends and acquaintances leave the Christian faith over the years and I've always made it a point to continue the relationship if I could. I would say I'm a pretty dedicated Christian by most people's standards. I'm nothing compared to so many that have come before me and the millions of persecuted believers all over the world today, but I want to keep the lines of communication open and still let them know I'm their friend no matter what they may believe at the moment. I feel it shows how a Christian should show love and care.

To them most of all...

 

[AWRTR]

When word got around that I had gotten baptized into the Catholic Church, it was amazing how many people made a point to criticize my decision. I had some atheist friends who were rather vocal and some agnostic friends who, true to form, didn't care one way or the other. The ones who surprised me the most were the self-described Christian friends and relatives who were absolutely convinced I'd just damned my soul for all eternity. (Never mind the fact that I could easily destroy 98% of these people in a theological debate without breaking a sweat.) I'm pretty thick-skinned, so most of this stuff just bounced right off of me.

The worst thing of all though, was when a woman from my mother's Baptist church recognized my wife at Wal-Mart. She walked right up to my wife and congratulated her on leading a "good soul" down Satan's path. "That is fine for you, but did you have to take him with you?" Now my wife has dealt with racism and bigotry her whole life, but this was a first and she cried when she told me about it. A quick call to my mother was all it took to prove to my wife that mom would never approve of such a thing and furthermore, she was happy I was in church AT ALL. Reassurances were made that the nasty lady from church would not be getting invited to any more gatherings hosted by my parents.

I guess I knew this sort of thing was coming; Lord knows, I was warned about that well ahead of time. And knowing most of the people from mom's church, I can honestly say that most don't mention it when I run into them. Either because they don't really care or because word gets around what can happen when you **** off my mother. (Even at her age, she's still got that mama bear energy.)

There are people that go to the Catholic Church that are solid and in my opinion as Christian as anyone else, and there are some that aren't. It's the same in any church. I disagree with some Catholic doctrine, but if you believe in the basic tenets of the faith then you are on the team. Secondary issues are just that, secondary.

I'm sorry your wife experienced that. Some people have no sense and speak when they should shut up and mind their own business. I deal with old ladies in the church pretty regularly and some of them think they are always right and can't help but tell you. I go to a baptist church and I'll tell you I don't feel that way and neither do many people I know.