This time in India, a 787. Apparently, it was trying to take off with landing gear down and flaps retracted, which would seem to be easily preventable. I used to get a warm feeling when my flight was a Boeing. Now, I'd rather Airbus...
Another Boeing bites the dust...
- Thread starter TIDE-HSV
- Start date
I saw a video online of the takeoff - seemed to lift off normally but didn't have the power to continue to climb (or even maintain altitude).
Found it:
I recently had a quick weekend trip and flew on what turned out to be a 737 MAX. Zero issues, obviously, but I would have far preferred an Airbus.
Found it:
I recently had a quick weekend trip and flew on what turned out to be a 737 MAX. Zero issues, obviously, but I would have far preferred an Airbus.
It seems Space-X has a lot of cameras onboard during flight (and weight is a huge issue with rockets). It seems like a small camera to actually see under the aircraft and along the wings during flight might be possible.
Do we know yet whether the crew knew the flaps were retracted? Did they forget to check? Did they check while the flaps were extended and then somehow they retracted without the crew's noticing it?
Really tragic situation. I'm interested to know what went wrong and if it was human error, or a malfunction with the aircraft.
Almost all airplane crashes, especially takeoff and landing issues, are pilot error. Maybe the warning lights for flaps being in the wrong position for takeoff were not working.
I don't know if India has a lottery, but he might want to get a ticket. Unless he just used up all of his luck
From the video, the flaps were never down, as they should have been from the beginning of the taxi. Just a SWAG, but I think the plane could have survived takeoff, even with the gear down. On a typical airliner, the flaps double the wing area and increase lift even more, because they slide both backwards and down. Next time you have a window seat, watch them as you come in for a landing. They make an audible "thump," the plane slows like braked, and usually bounces up a bit, even though the pilot is doing his best to dampen it...
Agreed.
Airmen use checklists (I would if I was a pilot) so nothing gets forgotten. I was just wondering if there are any cameras onboard showing the underside of the aircraft so crews can check things like flaps. Cameras have gotten pretty light and pretty cheap. If you get a false indication that flaps are down when they are actually up, a camera would show that, if placed properly.
Tragic. All these people dead. I hate waste like that.
True, but if the wife of a serial abuser broke her arm in an unrelated accident, you would still suspect the abuserI think its a bit early to blame this one on Boeing
Agreed, but reputationally, Boeing is in trouble.I think its a bit early to blame this one on Boeing
Their products are developing a reputation for catastrophic failures and Gravity being a harsh mistress, those failures frequently get people killed.
On this one, however, it looks like pilot error (did not extend the flaps or check that they were not retracted).
I think Boeing has a warehouse full of dirty pictures of DC politicians. The way they keep getting the lion's share of new development $$$.
I have serious doubts that the billions sent their way for the next gen fighter jet will ever produce a functional product.
You and me both.
I watched a documentary about the Boeing space branch and their new capsule. Holy moley, Boeing screwed the pooch on that one. I think Boeing has admitted defeat and kept their space division on life support just so they can spin it off.
Spending the equivalent of an entire city's GDP for one manned aircraft is just not sustainable. We don't have that kind of money. At what point do you say that this is nuts and start transitioning to unmanned aircraft as a replacement.
Still to early to tell what happened, but if the flaps were not properly set for takeoff, the plane will give the pilots an aural warning as they advance the throttles for takeoff. When calculating takeoff performance, a decision speed (know as V1) is provided to the pilots. If loss of power on one engine is experienced before reaching that speed, you should abort the takeoff and there should be enough runway left to bring the plane to a safe stop. If you lose power at or after V1, you should have enough speed and power from the remaining engine to safely climb out. If you lose an engine at V1, you must raise the landing gear shortly after you start to climb. The performance calculation is based on the initial climb with the gear retracted. If the gear remains extended, there is no guarantee the plane will establish a safe climb profile.
That's one thing which bothers me. The gear normally take only 10-15 seconds to retract, whereas the flaps normally retract gradually over a 10-15 minute interval. It could be that nightmare of concomitant failures, including engine failure. But, to the comment above, it's hard to see where this ends up anywhere but with Boeing, even if some pilot error is included. What happened should have had enough redundancy to prevent its occurrence...
I shot an email off to a friend who's a retired Boeing engineer and was involved in the development of the 787. His comments, if he'll give them, should be interesting...
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