AL Immigration Law: Just When You Thought It Couldn't Get Worse...

bamacon

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Then what I have to say about the matter is irrelevant, which is much like this stupid, unconstitutional law that was lawmakers tried to pass while no one was looking.
Govt. passes unconstitutional laws all the time. What I don't understand is why folks who hate this bill send all vitriol to the state legislature? Why aren't you directing it to the feds for forcing states to "DO SOMETHING" about this problem? It is literally breaking states' budgets now but all the opponents have is charges of racism. How about some solutions?
 

Tidewater

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I do not doubt that. I once had a conversation with the IT Director of the North Texas Tollway Authority about their internal systems and it was like taking an iPod and an HD TV to a tribe in the middle of the Amazon. Sheer and utter amazement about the magical spirits in the tiny boxes.
Like.
 

Bama Reb

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Govt. passes unconstitutional laws all the time. What I don't understand is why folks who hate this bill send all vitriol to the state legislature? Why aren't you directing it to the feds for forcing states to "DO SOMETHING" about this problem? It is literally breaking states' budgets now but all the opponents have is charges of racism. How about some solutions?
Agreed. Much like Arizona's law, Alabama's immigration law is patterned after and in fact practically mirrors federal immigration laws.
The only reason each of these were written and presented to their respective State legislatures in the first place was because the feds refused, and still refuse, to enforce the very same immigration laws they themselves have enacted.
What I find amazing is the gall shown by the federal gov't in suing Arizona and now Alabama for enacting laws that so closely mirror federal laws which the feds themselves refuse to enforce.
 

CrimsonNan

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Agreed. Much like Arizona's law, Alabama's immigration law is patterned after and in fact practically mirrors federal immigration laws.
The only reason each of these were written and presented to their respective State legislatures in the first place was because the feds refused, and still refuse, to enforce the very same immigration laws they themselves have enacted.
What I find amazing is the gall shown by the federal gov't in suing Arizona and now Alabama for enacting laws that so closely mirror federal laws which the feds themselves refuse to enforce.


Couldn't agree more!!!
 

Tide1986

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I agree with Jim here. I believe in our Constitution, and whether I agreed with this law or not (which I don't), it is unconstitutional and will be so found. But even if it weren't unconstitutional, it would still be a bad law, and it should be looked upon with suspicion by every person in this state who is now presumed a criminal and an illegal until they prove otherwise.
Did you know that police run car tags all the time (w/o probable cause) to determine if a vehicle has been stolen or, more likely, to see if your driver's license is current? Did you know that many states require some level of background check before you can purchase a firearm? Did you know that businesses are required to check your ID to confirm legal age before selling you cigarettes or alcohol? If any of these or any other similar examples are okay at any level, then what's wrong with this immigration law?
 
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bamacon

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I agree with Jim here. I believe in our Constitution, and whether I agreed with this law or not (which I don't), it is unconstitutional and will be so found. But even if it weren't unconstitutional, it would still be a bad law, and it should be looked upon with suspicion by every person in this state who is now presumed a criminal and an illegal until they prove otherwise.
Some parts of it were upheld. The point is that ALL of this should not be happening. The feds have a job and they are not doing it. The problem is that the states are having to pay for the feds failure. It is illogical to think that the status quo can continue and that the states and their citizens should have to keep suffering for the fed. govt's failure. I think states will have to simply defy the federal govt.'s wishes until something is done. Lawlessness begets lawlessness and if the feds are going to continue promoting lawless behavior then I have NO problem with states being proactive regardless of how Eric Holder views it.
 

Bama Reb

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Did you know that police run car tags all the time (w/o probable cause) to determine if a vehicle has been stolen or, more likely, to see if your driver's license is current? Did you know that many states require some level of background check before you can purchase a firearm? Did you know that businesses are required to check your ID to confirm legal age before selling you cigarettes or alcohol? If any of these or any other similar examples are okay at any level, then what's wrong with this immigration law?
Agree here also. Have you ever seen or been in a situation where a police officer was called to the scene of an incident? The first thing they do (unless there are personal injuries) is ask for ID - always! They want to know who it is they are dealing with, and it doesn't matter your gender, nationality or skin color.
How about when you go to a bank? Whether you are depositing or withdrawing funds, they always require ID. When I purchase alcoholic beverages, even at the grocery store, I have to show my ID. Heck, when I go to homes of customers who live in gated communities, the guard at the gate asks where I'm going and the resident's name, and for my drivers license as well. I could go on and on. There are dozens upon dozens of other situations in today's society where individuals are asked for their IDs on a daily basis.
The bottom line is, the opinion that this immigration law is somehow unconstitutional because the police or other individuals in authority would be required to ask for their ID is ludicrous at best.
 

Mayberry4Tide

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The way to deal with the federal government is to vote. If you are in the minority in your views, then no, you do not get to dictate to the federal government what they do and when. That's our Constitutional system.
Personally, I'm tired of having to pick between the lesser of the evils. I understand how the process should work, but I would also like to say that this process seems to be corrupt with personal agendas. My suggestions would be to create a clear path for the American people to decide on a specific issue instead of having to rely on representation alone. When partisan politics stagnate a course of action, I want to be able to vote my view. I also want this to be a way to ward off back alley deals with lobbyists that were not part of my vote of confidence in the politician. If the lobbyists feel there issues are so important, let them spend there efforts trying to convince me.I also want committees to be for educating me on a topic (I know there is C-Span, but there has to be a better way of sorting through this information to get to the truth)and, finally, I want the white house to be trimmed in crimson, but that may be for a different thread. I'm sure some will say that it is my responsibility as a citizen to be an informed voter, but as an average American, I feel like the propaganda directly blurs my perception of the truth. Unfortunately, this seems to be the desired effect from the folks in Washington.

Just to add, if we had the ability to tell our representation exactly how to vote on a topic (meaning a accounted consensus), then there wouldn't be so much worry on their part for political perception and we wouldn't have so much grandstanding around election time.
 

Tide1986

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Did you know that you choose to buy alcohol and drive? Did you know those are privileges? Being hassled merely for being alive is completely different. But I am sure you agreed with me on that when it was the individual mandate we were talking about. But hey, if you are fine living in a world where you have to show your papers, please, more power to you.
I have to show my papers now whenever I'm suspected of breaking law.
 

bamacon

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The way to deal with the federal government is to vote. If you are in the minority in your views, then no, you do not get to dictate to the federal government what they do and when. That's our Constitutional system.
So, shut up and take it if nothing is done and your state is being destroyed due to federal inaction? I don't think that will work much longer. These states are protesting as vigorously as they can while remaining peaceful by passing these laws. Some states will not let this crap destroy them so they better get busy or there will be very serious problems.
 

Bama Reb

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So, shut up and take it if nothing is done and your state is being destroyed due to federal inaction? I don't think that will work much longer. These states are protesting as vigorously as they can while remaining peaceful by passing these laws. Some states will not let this crap destroy them so they better get busy or there will be very serious problems.
I have a better idea. Let's round them all up and send them to Boston. I'm sure the folks up there will be more than happy to support them. :biggrin:
 

gmart74

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i have thought it would be hilarious if a state routinely caught illegals, bussed them to dc, and dumped them off right beside the white house. bolt bus is pretty cheap these days so it would actually be fiscally outstanding to the states.
 

Tide1986

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i have thought it would be hilarious if a state routinely caught illegals, bussed them to dc, and dumped them off right beside the white house. bolt bus is pretty cheap these days so it would actually be fiscally outstanding to the states.
Just use FedEx...illegals are accustomed to being freight anyway...right? :)
 

Mayberry4Tide

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Anti-Immigration hysteria is nothing new. This one is just as false as the one before, and this unconstitutional law will not stand.
I'm not sure why do describe this as hysteria. The concerns are far from exaggerated. I keep an open mind, so please explain what you think would work in place of this law. The problem I have with the Federal gov't handling this issue is the same fact that you defend. The majority may rule within the federal gov't, but is it possible this also causes them to neglect the few that have to feel the brunt of this? Do you feel that it is right for the people of Texas to patrol their own boarders? I do. I have no problem showing papers to those that have a legitimate cause to see them. I just need more than this law is unconstitutional because deep down inside I feel that the purpose has just cause.
 

bamacon

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Anti-Immigration hysteria is nothing new. This one is just as false as the one before, and this unconstitutional law will not stand.
Do you honestly believe that illegal immigration is not breaking some states? Hysteria describes something that is an overreaction to an imagined problem. I believe that is how some view the situation...as a non problem. That however is far from the case.
 

Tide1986

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I hear cracking sounds:

The $1.3 billion in costs incurred by Arizona taxpayers is comprised of outlays in the following areas:
  • Education. Based on estimates of the illegal immigrant population in Arizona and documented costs of K-12 schooling, Arizonans spend approximately $820 million annually on education for illegal immigrant children and for their U.S.-born siblings.
  • Health Care. Uncom-pensated medical outlays for health care provided to the state’s illegal alien population is now estimated at about $400 million a year.
  • Incarceration. The cost of incarcerating illegal aliens in Arizona prisons and jails amounts to about $80 million a year (not including the monetary costs of the crimes that led to their incarceration).
The unauthorized immigrant population pays some state and local taxes that go toward offsetting these costs, but they do not come near to matching the expenses. The total of such payments might generously be estimated at $257 million per year. The fiscal costs of illegal immigration do not end with these three major cost items. The total costs of illegal immigration to the state’s taxpayers would be considerably higher if other costs such as special English instruction, school nutrition programs, or welfare benefits for American workers displaced by illegal alien workers were added into the equation.
 

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