Alabama QB competition article

I am going to say this and be finished with this thread. IMO, Coach Saban owes it to Jalen to let him know where he stands in the competition with Tua so he and his father can make an informed decision before fall camp. Playing him randomly and in mop up is not fair to Jalen. I agree with all who say that Tua has better QB skills, so what is wrong with letting Jalen get on with his career at another program? I would certainly think more highly of Coach Saban if he does the right thing by Jalen. It is obviously not our decision and what will happen will happen. If Jalen and his father truly want him to get a shot as an NFL QB then he needs to go ahead transfer and make the most of a fresh start at a new program.

There's a lot of "what's" here:

What's fair? No position is guaranteed if someone better comes along. I think Tua came along and is simply better.

What's Jalen owed? Nothing except a chance to compete. Now if Jalen wants to redshirt so he can be ready to graduate and have two years to play elsewhere after a graduate transfer then that's fine with me too. But that's between him and coach.

What's best for Jalen? Loaded question. If he wants to get to the NFL I don't think it's thru the QB position, but I also agree it would be hard for him to change positions at Bama right now because of all the 4 and 5 stars at other positions.
 
If Saban has made up his mind, I agree. But I have watched Saban (and Meyer) really struggle with this in the past. I believe that it is entirely possible that Saban has not made up his mind at this point.

B1G, I think you are probably right. I just hope he is not playing one against the other to insure he has an experienced back up which IMO is wrong.
 
This is all Jmho but I think CNS already knows that as long as Tua is healthy then he is the far better QB and will be the starter by winning the job fairly.

But at the same time he's not going to announce Tua as the starter any time soon because he's going to give Jalen some of Fall Camp to also fairly compete.

If Coach just calls it right now then it looks like he didn't give Jalen a fair shake.... to some.....and that is probably one thing he's trying to avoid.

The competition has to be 'on the level' ....and I think it will be. But it's also not really a competition because Tua is World's better....Universe's Better.....Cosmos's Better.

I think Tua will emerge as the CLEAR #1QB just days into Fall Camp and quietly be named the Starter and start getting the reps with the 1's. WE won't know until the Louisville game though because the whole month the viewing periods with have both guys lined up repping with the 1's.

It's probably best anyway for Jalen to stay and RS and learn as much as he can from Enos and then graduate transfer with 2 years to play 2 at another school.
 
It's the plays not made (that should have been) in the three/four games a year in which Bama was actually challenged, that I think his impact on the offense stands out. Too many three and outs and stalled drives due to misreads and wrong decisions. We saw the perfect example of both sides of the coin in the title game. The first half was a perfect picture of what hindered us in the tough games and the second half was one of what it should have been when a quarterback in our offense is able to make the right reads and execute those reads.
Well stated.
 
I would hope that CNS has already sat both of them down and had a long discussion about what is expected moving forward. I would also hope that Jalen and his father have a plan. We are not privy to any of these conversations so we are just guessing about what may or may not happen. RTR
 
... because he's going to give Jalen some of Fall Camp to also fairly compete.
If Coach just calls it right now then it looks like he didn't give Jalen a fair shake....
The competition has to be 'on the level' ....
I don't see how calling it now would look like Jalen didn't get a "fair shake" or give the impression of not being "on the level." The two halves of the National Championship game showed everyone.
 
I don't see how calling it now would look like Jalen didn't get a "fair shake" or give the impression of not being "on the level." The two halves of the National Championship game showed everyone.
I personally feel the same as you but some people wouldn't look at it that way. Jalen and his family, maybe some other teammates, future recruits and their parents, people looking for something to use for negative recruiting etc etc.

Many people are going to have the opinion that Jalen is owed 'X' amount of Fall Camp to get equal reps with Tua to fight for the QB1 spot.
 
We -- including me -- are starting to beat a dead horse here. I'll summarize my thoughts, and this will be my last post on the subject unless and until some new news surfaces.

Jalen Hurts winning record and passing statistics are highly misleading.
- For all but 2-3 teams a year, virtually any FBS QB could be taking snaps, and our talent level and coaching expertise is so superior, we'd win.

- Jalen's passing stats, expecially in 2016, are built in no small measure on jet sweeps...essentially a running play that is scored as a pass because the ball is in the air for about 12-24 inches.

- All QBs' performance deteriorates against elite defenses. Jalen's nosedives. But the padding generated by performance against the big number of lesser teams artificially masks the poor performance against the small number of good ones.

Highly credible posters here have stated that he has lost the confidence of the other offensive skill players. Neither running backs nor receivers are happy:
- Ignoring inaccuracy for a minute, the fact that he tends to make one read, then take off running, takes catches away from the WRs and TEs.

- Then there's the accuracy thing, repeatedly missing open receivers, or putting the ball in places where, even if the catch is made, the receiver's stride is broken, his rhythm is thrown off, and the completion doesn't yield the yardage it should have.

- Credible posters have repeatedly said that only Mike Locksley's intervention prevented mutiny in the WR ranks, probably followed by mass exodus via transfer.

- RBs aren't happy because he runs so much, even on plays designed to be handoffs, that it diminishes their value.

- We have credible reason to believe his limitations were actually used against us in recruiting.

The defense isn't happy because the repeated 3-and-outs against good teams simultaneously cause them to be on the field incessantly (defending 100 plays agains Clemson? Really?), and create a feeling of futility in their effort.

Even Saban has said that the QBs main job is to put the ball in the hands of the playmakers. Jalen doesn't do a lot of that, unless you count putting the ball in his own hands when he runs it.

His heavy tendencies undermine the effectiveness of what should be a huge strength -- the RPO. Problem is, that's Run / Pass Option. When you never throw off of it, the absence of a passing threat allows the D to ignore that, and treat the play as a designed QB run. Which, against a top 5-7 defense is death.

Jalen's towering strength is ball security. The guy may go 3-and-out a lot, but he just doesn't turn it over. Fundamentally, I remain old school: Run the ball, stop the run, win special teams, and don't turn the ball over. I detest "basketball on grass" and anything remotely approaching that.

So when I say what I'm about to say, it comes only after long and serious thought: In Jalen Hurts' case, the ball security is just too expensive in terms of lost / foregone opportunities.

Over and out on this topic unless and until something new comes up.

Late Edit: This article, also part of kyallie's Latest News thread, goes over a lot of the above points. The author admits it's brutal, but I believe he is accurate. He also adds something I didn't consider -- the effect of Tua on the OL's performance.

They know he'll stay in the pocket as long as possible, so they know they're pass blocking. Given Jalen's tendency to bail on the play after the first read and take off running, that's a luxury they don't have when he's taking snaps. So for Tua, they fight harder for that extra second or two of protection.

Tua's presence has a positive effect on the whole team.

https://tdalabamamag.com/2018/06/09...275510785&mc_cid=c377b8ee66&mc_eid=f8c59bf4db
 
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I would hope that CNS has already sat both of them down and had a long discussion about what is expected moving forward. I would also hope that Jalen and his father have a plan. We are not privy to any of these conversations so we are just guessing about what may or may not happen. RTR
I suspect that talk has already occurred and it's in part what led to Jalen's father's remarks...
 
We -- including me -- are starting to beat a dead horse here. I'll summarize my thoughts, and this will be my last post on the subject unless and until some new news surfaces.

Jalen Hurts winning record and passing statistics are highly misleading.
- For all but 2-3 teams a year, virtually any FBS QB could be taking snaps, and our talent level and coaching expertise is so superior, we'd win.

- Jalen's passing stats, expecially in 2016, are built in no small measure on jet sweeps...essentially a running play that is scored as a pass because the ball is in the air for about 12-24 inches.

- All QBs' performance deteriorates against elite defenses. Jalen's nosedives. But the padding generated by performance against the big number of lesser teams artificially masks the poor performance against the small number of good ones.

Highly credible posters here have stated that he has lost the confidence of the other offensive skill players. Neither running backs nor receivers are happy:
- Ignoring inaccuracy for a minute, the fact that he tends to make one read, then take off running, takes catches away from the WRs and TEs.

- Then there's the accuracy thing, repeatedly missing open receivers, or putting the ball in places where, even if the catch is made, the receiver's stride is broken, his rhythm is thrown off, and the completion doesn't yield the yardage it should have.

- Credible posters have repeatedly said that only Mike Locksley's intervention prevented mutiny in the WR ranks, probably followed by mass exodus via transfer.

- RBs aren't happy because he runs so much, even on plays designed to be handoffs, that it diminishes their value.

- We have credible reason to believe his limitations were actually used against us in recruiting.

The defense isn't happy because the repeated 3-and-outs against good teams simultaneously cause them to be on the field incessantly (defending 100 plays agains Clemson? Really?), and create a feeling of futility in their effort.

Even Saban has said that the QBs main job is to put the ball in the hands of the playmakers. Jalen doesn't do a lot of that, unless you count putting the ball in his own hands when he runs it.

His heavy tendencies undermine the effectiveness of what should be a huge strength -- the RPO. Problem is, that's Run / Pass Option. When you never throw off of it, the absence of a passing threat allows the D to ignore that, and treat the play as a designed QB run. Which, against a top 5-7 defense is death.

Jalen's towering strength is ball security. The guy may go 3-and-out a lot, but he just doesn't turn it over. Fundamentally, I remain old school: Run the ball, stop the run, win special teams, and don't turn the ball over. I detest "basketball on grass" and anything remotely approaching that.

So when I say what I'm about to say, it comes only after long and serious thought: In Jalen Hurts' case, the ball security is just too expensive in terms of lost / foregone opportunities.

Over and out on this topic unless and until something new comes up.
Excellent post, it's almost as if i typed it myself. In 2016 the sample size was too small and he was a true freshman so it was unfair to judge him too much. In 2017 the sample size grew and the results stayed the exact same. We were in a dog fight against any quality defensive team that we faced. It is plainly obvious that Tua has talent as a passer that Jalen doesn't have and being honest I don't think he will ever develop. It's like a totally different game watching Tua at Qb vs Jalen. I respect what he has offered the team (2016 Ole Miss game was amazing for a freshman on the road) but I think the future is obvious, Tua is the Qb moving forward.
 
Totally agree with your post 4Q. I have been a Jalen Hurt fan from the USC game. I have (like many) hoped that he would get better and become a 'complete qb'. Even though I still love him as a person and hope the best for him (whatever that may be), I am now moving on to what Tua can offer. He really deserves to be the starter and have a chance to develop his tremendous talent. RTR!
 
I'll give one last try at this and leave this be. To me this is like peeling an onion and to some people it's an apple.

My mother died when I was 14. I thought I was going to manage the situation ok, because I still had my dad, but he moved out and remarried within 4 months. He didn't invite me. So, I ended up living with a half-brother. Even though I didn't know him very well, he treated me very well. I was about as happy as I could be in that situation. That is until he decided to get back with his ex-wife (I can't blame him, she had his kids) and then I was left living by myself in the house for a while. After that I lived with another half-brother, who didn't like having me around, and made me feel miserable. I don't think he did it on purpose, but when someone doesn't like having you around, and you don't really have a choice, it's a pretty bad feeling. Finally, I got out of that situation when my brother in Atlanta said I could come live with him.

Now, you can say I'm using transference, but in this example, Kiffin was my dad, Sark was the first half-brother, and Daboll was the second. Hurts had a guy he thought he could rely on, and he screwed him over in the Washington game. Hurts then had Sark, and while thrust into a bad situation, it had the potential to work out. Sark left him to though, and I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that Hurts couldn't have been happy with that. Sark was supposed to be good with QBs, it was supposed to be a similar environment, this could have worked out for him. What does Hurts end up with? The next brother, the guy who doesn't really know what to do with Hurts, and I absolutely believe Hurts felt uncomfortable. I have seen a lot of evidence to suggestion Daboll either didn't know what to do with Hurts, or simply didn't want him to be the guy at all. I see people here citing how things got worse with his play, and I agree, it did get worse. But I see the psychological aspects to that.

If you've never been in a situation where you start to feel really uncomfortable, and unwelcome, I can tell you it really messes with your confidence, and messes with your head. People said they thought Hurts looked relieved on the sideline at the Georgia game, yeah he probably was. I just don't think it was all about Hurts physical limitations. I'm not making up this stuff, RTR talked about the turmoil, it was real. There was real pressure building. What do you think it feels like to face a locker room full of people showing their unhappiness with you? This stuff is hard to process when you're a teenager.

Now, I said it before and I'll say it again. Hurts has some issues that this situation didn't create (though I did say before he took his first snap at Alabama that playing him as a true freshman could mess up his development). But I saw a guy crack under the pressure at the end of last year, a guy afraid to make mistakes, a guy who relied on himself and lost his faith in others. I've been there. That's what I think I saw. I could be wrong, what ever, but I can't help but understand things that way.

For the record stability and a situation I felt comfortable in is what helped me get better.

Sorry for your loss. My mom also died when I was 14. Fortunately, few people have felt the pain that we have. I really enjoyed your analogies in this post. Very well thought out.
 
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This is all Jmho but I think CNS already knows that as long as Tua is healthy then he is the far better QB and will be the starter by winning the job fairly.

But at the same time he's not going to announce Tua as the starter any time soon because he's going to give Jalen some of Fall Camp to also fairly compete.

If Coach just calls it right now then it looks like he didn't give Jalen a fair shake.... to some.....and that is probably one thing he's trying to avoid.

The competition has to be 'on the level' ....and I think it will be. But it's also not really a competition because Tua is World's better....Universe's Better.....Cosmos's Better.

I think Tua will emerge as the CLEAR #1QB just days into Fall Camp and quietly be named the Starter and start getting the reps with the 1's. WE won't know until the Louisville game though because the whole month the viewing periods with have both guys lined up repping with the 1's.

It's probably best anyway for Jalen to stay and RS and learn as much as he can from Enos and then graduate transfer with 2 years to play 2 at another school.

I'm probably beating a dead horse too, but I think Jalen has had 2 years to prove "who" he is. Times up.

I think 4Q Basket Case summed it up brilliantly.
 
I rewatched the 2nd half of the championship game last night...on the SEC Network. Tua's brilliance was obvious even on bad plays. His arm and eye talent are amazing...he threw several lasers downfield.

I do think JH will fight for the job...but I am totally sold on Tua going forward. He is an exceptional talent...probably the best we have had at QB in decades...

And yes...this horse died a long time ago...
 
I personally feel the same as you but some people wouldn't look at it that way. Jalen and his family, maybe some other teammates, future recruits and their parents, people looking for something to use for negative recruiting etc etc.

Many people are going to have the opinion that Jalen is owed 'X' amount of Fall Camp to get equal reps with Tua to fight for the QB1 spot.
I just don't see how anyone, except maybe Jalen's family, could see it that way. Not making the switch earlier in the year affected recruiting far more negatively that naming Tua the starter would.
 
I totally agree Tua should be starter,hands down. But, with a gunslinger like him, we will all need to be ready for more turnovers, (see Brett Favre). I'm fine with that because I think the end results will be better. It will just be different from what we are used to with Jalen.
 
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