Bama vs. UK Game Thread........

[bamacon]

Earle,

You are exactly right about the "schooling" of the guys who are playing at smaller programs being better. Anybody remember when Samford came in and rolled Alabama? When you have overagressive defenders standing in passing lanes you can exploit it. It's called the backdoor cut, the cut whatever. I saw ONE the whole game and our guy looked so shocked at how open his teammate was that the pass was bad and the shot was missed. Streetball will never beat fundamentals in basketball. We need to be developing athletes into basketball players. We ignore one half of the court (defense) and have for years. I am also one who agrees that eyes would do :eek2: if you saw a good coach get a hold of these guys. You wouldn't have to go any further than the practice facility next to Coleman to see what a good coach can do with the same talent that a mediocre coach at best had.

 

[BamaHoHo]

That we telegraph our passes, don't hustle back down court after missed shots and tend to stand around on offense.

& thats just the start of it.

 

[gamersfuel]

i was watching a game with a friend. he pointed out to me that the guys not getting back fell on gottfried. now dont get me wrong, coaching can cure that but i've been playing bball since i was like 8 years old. You do not have to tell me to get back on defense. Any of the guys at a YMCA know to get back especially if they keep getting beat. Gee and Hillman dont do anything great but can get by off by being so athletic. A great coach would get a lot out of them. Gottfried isnt great which is why they struggle. Green is a raw talent. He will do well with anyone coaching eventually. Other than that you have stiffs such as Torrence, Hollinger, Knox, and Coleman. We dont have anyone down low who can attack the boards other than Green. I'm waiting on someone to tell me who on this team is talented other than Green cause i cant wait to rebute it.

 

[BigAl5833]

i was watching a game with a friend. he pointed out to me that the guys not getting back fell on gottfried. now dont get me wrong, coaching can cure that but i've been playing bball since i was like 8 years old. You do not have to tell me to get back on defense. Any of the guys at a YMCA know to get back especially if they keep getting beat. Gee and Hillman dont do anything great but can get by off by being so athletic. A great coach would get a lot out of them. Gottfried isnt great which is why they struggle. Green is a raw talent. He will do well with anyone coaching eventually. Other than that you have stiffs such as Torrence, Hollinger, Knox, and Coleman. We dont have anyone down low who can attack the boards other than Green. I'm waiting on someone to tell me who on this team is talented other than Green cause i cant wait to rebute it.

Alonzo Gee was a 4 star coming out of high school. Number 10 player at his position.

There are several 3 stars on the team. It is a coaches job to evaluate talent and improve on the talent. Gottfried has yet to do this. There is talent on the court or these kids would not be playing D1 ball in the SEC. You can say what you want but the talent is there to close out games, which we can not do right now. You can say Green is the only player with talent all you want, but we all know this is not true.

You are pretty much saying Richard Hendrix did not have talent either. We still werent finishing games when he was here last year like we should have been. Hell we werent in games last year half the time. I saw Richard many times during his HS career, and to be completely honest if he commits somewhere else he is on a NBA team right now and not in the developmental league. That comes down to the coach not developing players, and sometimes as can be seen in free throws and defense making some of the players take a step back.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

I personally believe we're all going to be surprised with what these guys can do with decent coaching. You don't need a BB team made up entirely of stars, anyway. A couple, with the role players knowing and executing their roles is plenty...

 

[bamacon]

Would you say Gee and A. Steele have no talent? Getting talent in the past was not a problem CMG had. It was keeping it and developing it that was the problem. Now he has run the ship aground or sunk it altogether which is why he is a dead man walking so to speak. The talent pool has dried up because of his inablities as a coach. M. Williams, E. Dudley, E. Shelton, Winston, Grizzard, G. Wallace, R. Steele, C. Davis, R. Hendrix, M. Riley and others were all great talents, but those types are no longer coming to the Capstone. The writing is on the wall and this program has to turn the page before things get worst.

 

[gamersfuel]

you cant always go by stars when evaluating talent. especially basketball much moreso than football. If Gee and andrew steele are our most talented players then I rest my case. We have had some talent in the past yes. But i'm talking about this years team. My posts are not saying Gottfried is doing a great job nor saying he should stay. I'm saying he did a .... poor job of evaluationg talent and what you see is what you get. Who is our go to guy? Who is the defensive presence down low other than Green? When we need a 3 who can we count on? No coach in America could make Justin Knox and Yamene Coleman crash the boards or go up strong. they just cant do it. PPl can claim to know the game all they want but i certainly feel like i know a whole lot about the game and this is what i have seen.

 

[BigAl5833]

I personally believe we're all going to be surprised with what these guys can do with decent coaching. You don't need a BB team made up entirely of stars, anyway. A couple, with the role players knowing and executing their roles is plenty...

I completely agree. You can already see glimpses of what these players are capable of during games. They will have a streak where they will play great but just cant sustain the intensity. In the right situation and more specifically the right offense (not a fan of the UCLA offense we are running) we have the talent to be successful.

Is it still looking like more of a possibility of a mid-season change then before? Or was that just a quick reaction from some people after the way the UK game turned out?

EDIT: Sry Earle I just read the update to the Tubby Smith thread and got the answer to my question about the possible timing of a change.

 

[gamersfuel]

I personally believe we're all going to be surprised with what these guys can do with decent coaching. You don't need a BB team made up entirely of stars, anyway. A couple, with the role players knowing and executing their roles is plenty...

and yes i totally agree with you on that note. We need a coach who can get the guys playing with emotion and be held responsible for lack of effort. it worked out well for the football team..:biggrin:

 

[Alasippi]

The biggest problem I have with CMG is simple.

It doesn't really matter what the talent level is, we're going to lose on the road, blow a couple at home, and finsih with a so-so record.

Gottfried has had a team that was so talented it was ranked number one in the nation after 13 games and failed to finish in the top 25. I can't remember if we even made the tournament.

Then he's had teams that are only "so so" talent wise and they end up with about the same record.

It NEVER varies. Once you get to our conference schedule you can pretty much write down the result of every game before we even play the first one.

We could have Kareem Abdul Jabbar at center, Koby and LeBraun at Guards,
Elgin Baylor and Robert Horry at Forwards, and you could go ahead and book the losses.

It's like watching a replay of the year before every single season. The talent level at Bama has made very little difference in the results during Gottfrieds tenure.

The man does NOT now how to win. That simple.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

It's like watching a replay of the year before every single season. The talent level at Bama has made very little difference in the results during Gottfried's tenure.

I have to agree. His record is what it is. It's a little late in the game to be shouting "Hey! It's not Mark's fault. It's the fault of all those bums he recruited!"

 

[gamersfuel]

regardless of the disagreements the one thing most agree on is that his time is up. I'd be absolutely shocked if he was here next season. whoever it is i hope he has some fire in him.

 

[CrimsonEyeshade]

The biggest problem I have with CMG is simple.

It doesn't really matter what the talent level is, we're going to lose on the road, blow a couple at home, and finsih with a so-so record.

Gottfried has had a team that was so talented it was ranked number one in the nation after 13 games and failed to finish in the top 25. I can't remember if we even made the tournament.

Then he's had teams that are only "so so" talent wise and they end up with about the same record.

It NEVER varies. Once you get to our conference schedule you can pretty much write down the result of every game before we even play the first one.

We could have Kareem Abdul Jabbar at center, Koby and LeBraun at Guards,
Elgin Baylor and Robert Horry at Forwards, and you could go ahead and book the losses.

It's like watching a replay of the year before every single season. The talent level at Bama has made very little difference in the results during Gottfrieds tenure.

The man does NOT now how to win. That simple.

Boom. Great post.

One last comment: Who can name one player under Mark's tutelage who improved an iota as much as:

Latrell Sprewell or Keith Askins or Roy Rogers or Derek McKee or Leon Douglas (Trust me, the oldsters will attest; Leon was light years better player by his junior and senior years) or Robert Horry or David Benoit or Melvin Cheatham or Mike Davis or Michael Ansley or Eddie Phillips or Mule King or Terry Coner or Eric Richardson or Gary Waites or Buck Johnson or Jim Farmer or Cliff Windham or Phillip Lockett or Glenn Garrett or T.R. Dunn?

Some of these kids had worlds of talent. Some of them had slivers. All of them got better.

I don't see improvement any more. Nor do I see an even occasional glimpse of the intensity that for 20 years made Alabama, again to paraphrase a pretty good football coach, a team nobody wanted to play.

The aforementioned coach, according to a highly placed source, has begun raising the alarm that the state of the basketball team is hurting his ability to recruit kids.

Well, golll-eeeee. Maybe the fact that football has begun to be compromised will finally drive our athletic department to act in behalf of basketball. Pathetic, isn't it. But at this point, it would be welcomed all the same.

 

[Tide Rev]

Great post by CrimsonEyed Shade...I remember Leon Douglas, Mule, Glenn Garrett and those guys. Add Anthony Murray, Ennis Whatley, and Rickey Brown to the list. You could see they developed over their years at Bama. There was intensity on the court, defensive pressure and they knew what to do in certain situations. They played ball! The team right now could not have beaten my HS team the way they are playing right now.

 

[JDCrimson]

Honestly, I think the Auburn women could whip our men right now.

And truly, how do you put together a great recruiting weekend that includes a basketball game where the team is getting destroyed. Now, we have to let the recruits make a cameo appearance and them get them the heck out of there before they go comatos.

If I were CNS I would probably prefer to take the recruits to a gymnastics meet.

Honestly, I believe CNS would prefer that we stack the whole AD with coaches like him. You always enjoy working with people who you feel work as hard as you do.

 

[Alasippi]

Boom. Great post.

One last comment: Who can name one player under Mark's tutelage who improved an iota as much as:

Latrell Sprewell or Keith Askins or Roy Rogers or Derek McKee or Leon Douglas (Trust me, the oldsters will attest; Leon was light years better player by his junior and senior years) or Robert Horry or David Benoit or Melvin Cheatham or Mike Davis or Michael Ansley or Eddie Phillips or Mule King or Terry Coner or Eric Richardson or Gary Waites or Buck Johnson or Jim Farmer or Cliff Windham or Phillip Lockett or Glenn Garrett or T.R. Dunn?

Some of these kids had worlds of talent. Some of them had slivers. All of them got better.

I don't see improvement any more. Nor do I see an even occasional glimpse of the intensity that for 20 years made Alabama, again to paraphrase a pretty good football coach, a team nobody wanted to play.

The aforementioned coach, according to a highly placed source, has begun raising the alarm that the state of the basketball team is hurting his ability to recruit kids.

Well, golll-eeeee. Maybe the fact that football has begun to be compromised will finally drive our athletic department to act in behalf of basketball. Pathetic, isn't it. But at this point, it would be welcomed all the same.

Agreed. All improved during their careers and they all played with incredible intensity, especially on defense and hitting the boards. The intensity level is where I see a huge lacking now. Leon, T.R. etc...absolutely hated to lose and you could see it game in and game out because of their effort.
Now it's like.."Oh well..we lost. But hey we were ahead at the half".

I've said it a million times "Any sports team will ultimately transcend into the personality of their coach". CMG is very nice with very little intensity displayed. And thus, our basketball team is very nice with very little intensity displayed.

Great teams have a swagger, a quiet confidence, an attitude.

I don't think our current players have any confidence at all in the system, the coaches, or themselves. That's not going to win championships.

 

[Alasippi]

Let me just say that I have no personal vindetta against Coach Gottfried. I like him. But I love Bama Basketball.

I used to listen to the Doug Layton broadcasts on the radio and keep a scorebook!

And it goes back a ways. I remember my mom and I screaming, jumping, and running through the house when Glen Garrett hit a jumper on the buzzer to beat Manhattan in the N.I.T. for goodness sakes...lol

How many even remember that??

 

[Tidetwin]

I do Sip and then we beat 3rd or was it 4th ranked Minnesota the next game. We eventually lost( a heartbreaker) to eventual NIT champion Virginia Tech led by Allen Briscoe.

And the cool thing was, as a program, we were just getting started.
Nice memories . . . old memories . . . but really nice ones nonetheless.

 

[pc2bama]

gottfried has a horrible eye for talent.

We have had some talent in the past yes. But i'm talking about this years team. My posts are not saying Gottfried is doing a great job nor saying he should stay. I'm saying he did a .... poor job of evaluationg talent and what you see is what you get. Who is our go to guy?

Which one is it? It can't be both. Gottfried can't develop the talent. Like was said earlier, "There is no visible improvement from year to year." Former players have said the same thing. Eventually this stuff catches up to you and I for one am SHOCKED that it has taken over a decade to catch up with CMG. The point is that it no longer matters if he has an eye for talent because the talent is no longer considering Alabama. The program has to be made viable again and it is clear that CMG is not the one to do that. The AD and the University gave him his shot and he put up an airball.

 

[Alasippi]

I do Sip and then we beat 3rd or was it 4th ranked Minnesota the next game. We eventually lost( a heartbreaker) to eventual NIT champion Virginia Tech led by Allen Briscoe.

And the cool thing was, as a program, we were just getting started.
Nice memories . . . old memories . . . but really nice ones nonetheless.

I think that was Leon's freshman year. May be wrong on that one though.