DB Coach Greg Brown To Step Down (keep all DB coaching discussion here)

[CSA4Ever]

Re: Looks Like More Coaching Changes Possibly on the Way

"Just look at the FSU/Auburn game, you know darn well Alabama could have won against either. No, this isn't the best Alabama team, but they were still very good, despite the inexperience. Look at who FSU played, look at who Auburn played, who did they beat that Alabama couldn't? Duke"?
................................................................................

By coincidence, while watching the FSU-Auburn I had the feeling that either OU or Alabama could have beaten either team. Those are the breaks. Who would have dreamed of a missed FG being run back for a last-second TD?

Two seasons ago, OU did a H-H series with FSU and won both. FSU asked for another H-H with OU but demanded that OU play in Florida two consecutive games. OU wanted the first of the H-H be played in OK.

In retrospect, I wish OU could have played them this past season in Norman. I'm not sure OU could have beaten them early in the season but it would have been interesting.

FSU opens next season at Okie State which lost a lot of talent but Okie Lite is capable of beating them. I make no predictions.

As for the Tide future, I see absolutely no reason the best coach in the US cannot get things back on track quickly and we can enjoy an OU-Bama rematch for the NC.

Yeah, I dream big. That's what fans do.

 

[Pluck and Grit]

Re: Looks Like More Coaching Changes Possibly on the Way

Colorado St. was a little bit better team than people realized at the time..... 1-2 coming into that game (after a 4-8 season the year before), but went 7-3 after leaving Tuscaloosa. I'm not sure that 31-6 win was as bad as we thought it was then, or even looks that bad now. Looking back at this years hence, it will be remembered as a 25 point win over a team that won their bowl game.

Like another poster in this thread, I never thought we were as good as the national media did (boy did this team play under some pressure!), but then we'd do things like beat LSU 38-17 and Ole Miss 25-0 to raise the point that maybe we were that good.

One big change I did see relative to the previous couple of years was that we weren't as good of a road team. In 2011 and 2012, and really for most of the Saban era, we were actually a better road team than home team, seeming to play our best away from BDS. That's a rare thing. But not so in 2013.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Re: Looks Like More Coaching Changes Possibly on the Way

Resignation? Seriously??
I think a lot of people are losing their minds on this! We lost 2 games!! Every season has games where the team that wins it all could've lost. Krazy pointed out that we could have very well been 14-0, are y'all saying that that's not true?!? A missed kick in the AU game is what pretty much sealed our fate... and yes, A missed kick! If we would've made 1 we would've been playing FSU instead of OU. I think Krazy is exactly right.... I think there were things Saban wanted to change but couldn't because of the stakes. Have a little faith!! It's amazing how so many people are in an outrage over an 11-2 season!!
Saban will right the ship and we will be back on track!! NO TEAM CAN WIN EVERY YEAR!! Complacency was our worst enemey and now we have something to work on.

That's what most are saying and agreeing with. Is that Saban knew we needed to change somethings. Look, if the only thing "wrong" was that we missed a few plays here and there then we wouldn't be seeing all this shake up. But the truth of the matter is it wasn't JUST about missing a few plays here and there. There was obviously some underlying issues going on because even in many of our wins you could see a lot of red flags that kept popping up. Sometimes you really can take a lot away from HOW a team plays and even wins against inferior opponents. Granted, it's not an absolute but it isn't useless information either.

And no one is freaking out. We're just observing and commenting on the moves that Coach Saban is making and why he might be making them. It's a message board for crying out loud.

 

[TideEngineer08]

Re: Looks Like More Coaching Changes Possibly on the Way

I'm of the opinion that CNS saw problems in the program and is taking steps to correct them.

Results oriented thinking... I see some of you getting on to others because you feel they aren't satisfied with an 11-2 year. Being satisfied with 11-2 or not being satisfied with 11-2 is still results oriented thinking. The very thing Coach Saban preaches against.

11-2 with just a few busted plays away from possibly being 14-0; 11-2 against a weak schedule meaning it could have just as easily been 9-4 or 8-5 against tougher competition... Neither one matters to Coach Saban if the engine isn't performing as it is supposed to.

No one here is unsatisfied with an 11 win season. But every one ought to be able to understand and comprehend that last season wasn't good enough because the team did not live up to its standard. That's the problem and Coach Saban is fixing it. Period.

 

[bamaslammer]

Re: Looks Like More Coaching Changes Possibly on the Way

I think the partial reset button was pressed for two reasons. One I think the staff didn't have the sort of fire and cohesion that we have had in the past. Secondly I think the "formula" to beating Alabama had become too easy to duplicate. An example of one area I think we failed at was third down play. When you are beating a bunch of low quality teams by 30 you don't really think about completing a 3rd and 10 pass. You think awwww just toss it short, may be we get a broken tackle, otherwise just punt. That in a perfect world would be the right move but 5 weeks later when 3rd and 10 means your season you just haven't done it enough and you fail, even worse you're so used to throwing it away you just thow it away without really trying. I don't believe in running up scores but while the starters are in there they need to approach every drive as if it's their last and they are down by 6. That sort of agressivness has to happen every week for it to be there at the end. I believe that agressiveness comes from the coaches, not the players. Looking back at 2012 I saw plenty of 3rd and long conversions by McCarron. In 2013 we saw tons of explosive plays, but 3rd and long completions were unheard of. In the end it killed us.

 

[crimsonaudio]

Re: Looks Like More Coaching Changes Possibly on the Way

Resignation? Seriously??

I agree with him - he often looked absolutely exasperated. By the send of the season, i rarely eve saw him fired up, it was like he knew what was coming, just not when it was to arrive.

I think maybe, just maybe, you're not reading what he said.

 

[crimsonaudio]

Re: Looks Like More Coaching Changes Possibly on the Way

No one here is unsatisfied with an 11 win season. But every one ought to be able to understand and comprehend that last season wasn't good enough because the team did not live up to its standard. That's the problem and Coach Saban is fixing it. Period.

This.

 

[mittman]

Re: Looks Like More Coaching Changes Possibly on the Way

A made kick MAY have won us the Auburn game. I am not of the opinion it was a guarantee, but it is likely.

That puts us in the SEC championship game. Would we have beaten Missouri? I don't think that is a given.

I think Saban is obviously making changes to mix things up. We will have different players with different skill sets. We will have a different coordinator and a lot of different position coaches. It appears we will speed things up some on offense, at least in some situations.

I do not think Saban is making a "paradigm shift" type change in his principles. I do not believe he is of the belief what we have been doing has to change completely like Bryant did going to the wishbone. At least I hope not. However, what we see next year may make us think he has.

I also do not think that all of the coaching position changes are a result of Saban moving to different people. I believe he could have done and would have with the same people if they wanted to stay.

My opinion is probably not worth as much as the next guy's, but there it is.

 

[KrAzY3]

Re: Looks Like More Coaching Changes Possibly on the Way

No one here is unsatisfied with an 11 win season. But every one ought to be able to understand and comprehend that last season wasn't good enough because the team did not live up to its standard. That's the problem and Coach Saban is fixing it. Period.

I want to reiterate what in particular I take exception to. One would be Alabama fans who compare an 11 win season to a pair of 6 win seasons. There's just no way to say what Saban and Alabama are experiencing now compares to Bear Bryant having fundamental problems with his approach. Secondly, I took exception to the notion that fans have any place to say that something "had" to change. Also, I've seen dissatisfaction expressed here in a few ways, including suggestions that Nick is past his prime, is "supposedly" the best coach, etc... it's not common but it darn sure happened.

No, nothing had to change. Alabama could have had the same coaches next year, and with good QB player been in the mix yet again. However, the pertinent question is could Alabama do better? That to me is the appropriate way to look at things, not that things just had to change, not that Alabama was nearly mired in mediocrity, not that Nick Saban had better wise up and figure this thing out, but rather were things up to his standards?

The answer to that clearly is no. But, I will also reiterate what I said prior to the Auburn game, which is that Nick Saban has been locked in for a while now. Any major changes to the offense could disrupt AJ, any major changes with coaches could disrupt schemes/recruiting, and with massive defections (to the NFL, or for raises), Nick Saban was left trying to patch up each hole without really being able to do the kind of work he'd like to do on a ship that kept getting holes punched in the hull.

What we're seeing now, in my opinion, is Nick feeling liberated to do what he wanted to earlier. If Alabama has a three-peat, I think Nick Saban retires, or tries to keep things together as much as possible, now, he's taking risks that he probably wanted to take all along, but you just can't in the middle of a title run.

 

[JDCrimson]

Re: Looks Like More Coaching Changes Possibly on the Way

What I really wonder is if we had not had the false start on the FG in the IB and we go on to win that game? Go to the SEC Championship and win just based our more physical style and finished 13-1 or 14-0, would we have still seen the kind of changes we are seeing? Regardless of the outcome of the season, I think the issues and symptoms that we are reflecting on would still be there we were just good enough to "get away with it".

I wonder how the staff changes and roster would have been affected? Would CNS have more political cover to make the changes in such a circumstance or would he be scoffed at for making changes despite the result or let would he let it ride another year until the results proved out the practice? I know its ifs and buts but I am sure some these issues didnt arise completely this season but probably were building last year as well.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Re: Looks Like More Coaching Changes Possibly on the Way

*I want to reiterate what in particular I take exception to. One would be Alabama fans who compare an 11 win season to a pair of 6 win seasons. There's just no way to say what Saban and Alabama are experiencing now compares to Bear Bryant having fundamental problems with his approach. Secondly, **I took exception to the notion that fans have any place to say that something "had" to change. Also, I've seen dissatisfaction expressed here in a few ways, including suggestions that Nick is past his prime, is "supposedly" the best coach, etc... it's not common but it darn sure happened.

***No, nothing had to change. Alabama could have had the same coaches next year, and with good QB player been in the mix yet again. However, the pertinent question is could Alabama do better? That to me is the appropriate way to look at things, not that things just had to change, not that Alabama was nearly mired in mediocrity, not that Nick Saban had better wise up and figure this thing out, but rather were things up to his standards?

The answer to that clearly is no. But, I will also reiterate what I said prior to the Auburn game, which is that Nick Saban has been locked in for a while now. Any major changes to the offense could disrupt AJ, any major changes with coaches could disrupt schemes/recruiting, and with massive defections (to the NFL, or for raises), Nick Saban was left trying to patch up each hole without really being able to do the kind of work he'd like to do on a ship that kept getting holes punched in the hull.

What we're seeing now, in my opinion, is Nick feeling liberated to do what he wanted to earlier. If Alabama has a three-peat, I think Nick Saban retires, or tries to keep things together as much as possible, now, he's taking risks that he probably wanted to take all along, but you just can't in the middle of a title run.

*Again you're missing the point. Stop getting caught up in the number 11 and 6. The point is the HUNH has caused a fundamental problem in the way Saban's defense operates the best. Saban has recruited to compliment his defensive strategy, which includes specialized packages with certain players being on the field at certain times but off the field in others. The HUNH has eliminated that and the results have been obvious and I don't see how anyone can argue otherwise. How many more Auburn's, Johnny Footballs and Oklahoma's are we going to have to have happen before we realize a fundamental flaw exist in our defensive system? The difference is Saban isn't waiting until an 11-2 season turns into 9-3 then 8-4. He's smart enough to recognize that change is needed so it won't get to 6-6 seasons. I'll go ahead and say it here. We're going to have a similar problem with Dak Prescott next year with Miss St. Injuries and his mom dying drastically hindered his play this season. If he's healthy he's going to give most SEC defenses absolute fits. He's that good.

**Fans have the right so say what they want to say. It's part of fandom/fanhood or whatever you want to call it. I've never understood this line of thinking. When someone postures up and proclaims that since fans are "just" fans they have no right to verbally express their thoughts and opinions. That falls in the same box as those who have this idea that if you didn't go to the school then you can't be a "real" fan. It's absurd.

***You're right. Nothing "had" to change. We could have easily stayed the course and slowly but surely, year by year, as more teams adopted the offense that continues to shred our defense. Because if we keep doing everything the same you can bet more teams would shred our defense. At that point 11 win seasons would eventually change to 10-2, 9-3, 8-4 etc. If you don't believe that would be the natural progression then I guess we just have to agree to disagree.

 

[rgw]

Re: Looks Like More Coaching Changes Possibly on the Way

The big problem up-tempo has created is that Saban has cultivated a scheme that is highly specialized. Specialized to the degree that some players in the regular depth chart - especially younger guys - are taught one situational role to execute for the weekly gameplan. This has been part of Saban's success because it is a good way to manage the NCAA practice limitations. "I can't get 10 defensive linemen ready to execute the whole gameplan but I can prepare 5 completely and 5 situationally." This also allows Saban to get more talent involved in the game despite experience/knowledge limitations from a gifted athlete.

The truth is that Alabama isn't THAT much better - if at all - than most good SEC teams in the top 25 of the roster. We've dominated teams at the depth we cultivate through situational roles and rotations. We're better than all but maybe 3-4 teams in the roster top 40 and probably better than anyone for the full 85. Tempo takes away that advantage. It takes away situational defense. It forces Saban away from formulated designer blitzes and coverages and into base defenses that every team in America runs.

This is why Saban is faced with a pivot point in his tenure. He's going to have to throw out some of the things he's hanged his hat on and reinvent himself a bit. Most teams that handle tempo the best don't seem to look for being in the perfect defense every play but instead look to play a few coverages VERY well and eventually out executing the tempo offense in the defenses they trust. This is where I think we're going. More attacking pressure from the front four and a back seven that can execute some core coverages very well and just out play the offense.

 

[BigBama76]

Re: Looks Like More Coaching Changes Possibly on the Way

He might be reinventing himself, but I don't think it's reasonable at all to compare what Bear Bryant went through to last season at Alabama. Alabama was 11-2, the period you're talking about with Bear Bryant saw Alabama win 12 games in two years.

The changes Coach Bryant had to make weren't all just a new offense. He knew he had to bring in black athletes and bigger, stronger but less versatile players as well. The days of playing somebody like Jerry Duncan at tackle were long gone.

 

[MOAN]

Re: Looks Like More Coaching Changes Possibly on the Way

Only coach Saban knows the why and reasons for what he is doing and that includes his assistants. Its a working relationship and he is the boss so if his employees do not perform as he expects, he finds someone who will.

To me all sides of the team, offense, defense and special teams underperformed although they did show flashes of what they could do in games if they were motivated and ready to get after it. They won 11 games from mere talent for the most part and got outworked a few of the games they won.

That starts with the coaches and as the boss and CEO its his job to do whats best for the school and players. If any of the assistant coaches were slackers then that would help explain some things.

Coaches have to lead by example and I know of two of his assistants who you could see during games that were getting after the players hard, coach Smart and coach Cochran. I bet they don't go anywhere this off season unless its up.

Don't know much about the others but if the product on the field this year was any indication some changes were called for.

 

[tmv85]

Re: Looks Like More Coaching Changes Possibly on the Way

Resignation? Seriously??

I think the definition of resignation in this case is NOT one of giving up, but it is, instead, one of accepting something as inevitable.

I also agree that we probably came out with a better record than we maybe should have. I don't remember if I've said it in another post, but I got a feeling from listening to the press conferences during fall camp that this was going to be a tough year.

 

[BamaMoon]

Re: Looks Like More Coaching Changes Possibly on the Way

Yeah, like I've said before it wasn't the 11-2 that irked Saban it was how the 2 games were loss.

I'm one who doesn't believe we were better than our record indicates. Actually, I believe we were somewhat worse than what our record indicated. We were just fortunate enough to play some very bad offenses and teams along the way.

And if I might add, he was probably disappointed in the way we won some games too...winning but not with excellence and effort like he expected.

CNS is not all-knowing, but he probably foresaw what happened at the end of the year.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Re: Looks Like More Coaching Changes Possibly on the Way

And if I might add, he was probably disappointed in the way we won some games too...winning but not with excellence and effort like he expected.

CNS is not all-knowing, but he probably foresaw what happened at the end of the year.

There's almost no way he couldn't have. Waaaaay too many red flags in games that we won to think he at least didn't have a hunch that this had the potential to go off the tracks.

But I also think that part of his realization was also the fact that he needed to change somethings on the field as well. But he couldn't while you're half way into a season.

 

[rgw]

Re: Looks Like More Coaching Changes Possibly on the Way

Discipline was an issue this season...well actually well into the previous off-season. I think player development was an issue at a few positions where we have typically seen improvement from game 1 to game 12(13 or 14). Corner didn't really improve the entire season. Of course, poor discipline in the student-athlete concept was allegedly part of the reason why one promising young CB was sidelined until after finals (the bowl game). The OLB position was invisible this year. I'm losing my patience with Lance Thompson. I don't care if you can recruit. We could put a Bama polo on any guy who knows some football and he'd recruit well. That is where our program is at perception-wise, no use keeping a guy on because he can recruit because his superior replacement (like Sal the last time) would be wearing the same Bama polo.

Some issues were because guys got kicked off (Pettway) and injured (Tomlinson) on the DL. That hurt what pass rush we do get from our 3 down lineman spots as they were the best of the bunch on the roster at the end of last year's BCSCG. The OL never really turned into the unit I would have thought they'd be by game 12-13 either. I figured our left side would become a mauler "sure 4-6 yards" place to go and it never happened.

 

[KillVols]

Re: Looks Like More Coaching Changes Possibly on the Way

I agree, watching him in the "before game start" interview....both Auburn and Oklahoma game he looked tired and NOT confident... Also we didn't seem to make halftime adjustment very well in many games last year.

 

[rgw]

Re: Looks Like More Coaching Changes Possibly on the Way

Some of it was beyond what a coach could do adjustment wise. When the players aren't there mentally or physically then you kinda have to work with what you've got. A lot of this year's issues were not above the line...to take the movie production saying. I don't think Saban was satisfied with some of his coaches in terms of off-season and in-season development. Some of it was just a lack of talent at critical spots. How much of that is the coaching, how much is the players? Kinda chicken and egg in principle I guess but I'd say it was a bit of both.

The OLB position was the most disappointing to me because we were working with 3 guys with a season's worth of starts underneath their belt. We knew OL would be a process but the process wasn't one that was necessarily positive by the end of the season. We've historically gotten better as an OL during the season but it kinda regressed after the LSU second half performance this year. I don't know if they converted a single short yardage run play from MSU through OU. At least it felt like it. Corner never really got much better from the early season TAMU debacle. There was more going on there than just knowing the playbook though.

Its hard to make an assessment on the coordinators and head coach because the position coaches and players weren't really bringing it together at the microlevel.