Elon Musk: Hero or Villian?

AlexanderFan

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Yeah, I think it was . It’s been a concern of mine for a decade. And I agree with Brad something had to be done, talking about it wasn’t cutting it. But I’m pretty sure indiscriminately firing folks isn’t the proper way either. Maybe having department heads making cuts would be a better option. Giving them 30 days or 60 days to reduce their workforce by X amount. Some departments should/would see deeper cuts than others.
It had to be done. Definitely can discuss debate yell scream about who is doing it, but it had to be done. We have reached the extreme measures era. Both sides just one upping each other until this country falls into a sinkhole of nonsense.

Who do you get to do this?
 
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CrimsonJazz

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Musk:

By a factor of 2 to 1, you want a new political party and you shall have it!

When it comes to bankrupting our country with waste & graft, we live in a one-party system, not a democracy.

Today, the America Party is formed to give you back your freedom.
He’s in for disappointment. Americans have been screaming for a legitimate threat to the two party system, but when the time comes to put their money where their mouths are, they will always respond like the brainwashed peons they’ve always been.
 

92tide

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Tidewater

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i suppose this will go about as well as his attempts at cave rescue
If they are going to raise taxes and actually cut federal spending (as opposed ot cut here to spend more there), I'd vote for them.

The nineteenth century American Party, allowed themselves to be called the "Know-Nothing Party," which, surprisingly, was not effective branding.
 

92tide

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If they are going to raise taxes and actually cut federal spending (as opposed ot cut here to spend more there), I'd vote for them.

The nineteenth century American Party, allowed themselves to be called the "Know-Nothing Party," which, surprisingly, was not effective branding.
he may be able to crack the nut of getting a viable 3rd party going, but i imagine he will again get bored pretty quickly
 

Tidewater

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he may be able to crack the nut of getting a viable 3rd party going, but i imagine he will again get bored pretty quickly
Probably.
Plus, I think there is a lot of intrenched public opinion that spending cutters tend to not want to raise taxes and tax raisers tend to not want to cut spending. They both scream at each other for not doing enough.

I'd like a president to tell Democrats, "I want you to raise taxes by $1 trillion within five years (not "We hope this will raise $1 trillion. I want to see what they will do when the taxes do not raise $1 trillion. What is plan B?) and tell Republicans I want you to cut spending by $1 trillion (not "We hope this will reduce spending by $1 trillion. I want to see what they will do when the spending cuts do not add up to $1 trillion. What is plan B?)
 

crimsonaudio

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I'd like a president to tell Democrats, "I want you to raise taxes by $1 trillion within five years (not "We hope this will raise $1 trillion. I want to see what they will do when the taxes do not raise $1 trillion. What is plan B?) and tell Republicans I want you to cut spending by $1 trillion (not "We hope this will reduce spending by $1 trillion. I want to see what they will do when the spending cuts do not add up to $1 trillion. What is plan B?)
A good start, but still doesn't fix our debt. We don't have to be debt-free but we need to be in a place where if debt is truly needed, it's available.

We have to make REAL cuts and raise REAL taxes in a way that doesn't make us debt-neutral, but works to reduce it. It's necessary.

But sadly, both sides simply lie and manipulate in order to get reelected so they can continue the grift. It's so demoralizing.
 

TIDE-HSV

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A good start, but still doesn't fix our debt. We don't have to be debt-free but we need to be in a place where if debt is truly needed, it's available.

We have to make REAL cuts and raise REAL taxes in a way that doesn't make us debt-neutral, but works to reduce it. It's necessary.

But sadly, both sides simply lie and manipulate in order to get reelected so they can continue the grift. It's so demoralizing.
If we hadn't come out of WWII relatively unscathed, in comparison with Europe, an economic powerhouse and guarantor of security for the western world, not to mention the reserve currency of the world, we wouldn't have gotten away with it this far. Trump has taken this position and essentially thrown it to the four winds, because the man understands nothing but business deals and he's not very good at that, despite his feathering his own and his family's nests by grifting. The country needs a real Republican Party...
 

Bamaro

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We need a party that can show fiscal restraint. Republicans used to but no more since Reagan. Democrats were never too good at it. I know that Clinton has good success but that had a lot to do with a Republican congress. Since then it has been horrific!
I wish Musk well in his attempt. It will be interesting to see what else this party will stand for.
 

selmaborntidefan

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Elon Musk was popular with lefties right up until he went to work for Trump.
Then he was popular with righties because he was going to fix the deficit problem.
Now he's popular with lefties again because they think he'll help them settle their decade-long obsession to "Get Trump No Matter What!"

And he's still the same narcissistic scumbag (Musk I mean, sorry for the confusion) he always was.
 

selmaborntidefan

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Republicans, who just months ago were smirking at the notion of Musk financing primary challenges to anyone who didn't bow the knee to Holy Dictator, are now freaking out that Musk is going to cost them elections by financing 3rd party challengers.

Look, folks, if I wanted a Democrat to head HHS and DNI and to make excuses for illegals who work picking berries and in hotels, I could have voted for Donald "All My Donations To Democrats Until 2011" Trump.
 

Bodhisattva

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FWIW, I saw this article a few days ago but haven't been on the board until today. It muses what a new party might look like.

If Musk's rhetoric is any indication, the America Party would be less about ideology and more about reform: a center-right party on economics, a centrist or libertarian stance on social issues, and an unorthodox platform on digital rights and innovation. Musk's views suggest:
  • On Regulation: Reduce red tape to unleash innovation, particularly in biotech, AI, crypto, and space.
  • On Education: Dismantle legacy education models in favor of decentralized, skills-first learning.
  • On Foreign Policy: A skeptical view of prolonged foreign entanglements, though Musk has been unpredictable here.
  • On Free Speech: A maximalist stance, with his management of X serving as a guiding ethos.
Such a party would likely position itself as forward-looking and business-savvy, though critics might argue it would disproportionately reflect Musk's own ideological and financial priorities.

On health care, a Musk-led party might reject expansions of government-run insurance programs in favor of market-based reforms, telemedicine, or AI-driven diagnostics, framing these as more efficient alternatives to public options.

In terms of education, it could oppose federal student loan forgiveness efforts, like the Biden administration's plan, and instead favor skills-based training, online platforms, or decentralized learning ecosystems, like Khan Academy or Neuralink-enhanced learning, in the long term.

On environmental regulation, while Musk champions electric vehicles and solar power, he has criticized regulatory processes that slow industrial development. His party might support aggressive decarbonization, but without the bureaucratic oversight many progressives favor.
What Elon Musk's America Party Could Look Like - Newsweek
 

selmaborntidefan

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FWIW, I saw this article a few days ago but haven't been on the board until today. It muses what a new party might look like.

What Elon Musk's America Party Could Look Like - Newsweek
The delicious irony is that Trump told Rona Daniel that he was leaving the party and forming his own because they didn't stand up for him against the "stolen election." But they had him by the male parts - because Trump was selling the donor list to wannabes for $1 million apiece. So they told him that if he did, the donor list belongs to the party and they'll just give it away for free.

As always, he went Full TACO. And then, of course, he denied it ever happened and blamed the media.

The reason a third party doesn't catch on is because the one split loses every election and has no choice but to compromise and adopt some viewpoints.
 

dtgreg

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We need a party that can show fiscal restraint. Republicans used to but no more since Reagan. Democrats were never too good at it. I know that Clinton has good success but that had a lot to do with a Republican congress. Since then it has been horrific!
I wish Musk well in his attempt. It will be interesting to see what else this party will stand for.
Reagan and his Voodoo Economics turned us from a creditor nation into a debtor nation. But he started his campaign in Philadelphia, Mississippi and that made the kluxxers happy.
 
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JDCrimson

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Simple fact is if the BBB adds 3T to the national debt over the next 10 years then letting the 2017 tax cuts expire we likely would have had a balanced 10 year budget. That would have been a true win.

That being said, we cannot reduce our national debt with the same tools we have been using for over 100 years. Our current tax system is not designed to manage or reduce this kind of debt nor does it adequately tax how income and wealth are generated today.

Its no coincidence that our tax system was built around a manufacturing and domestically generated economy. When that started moving off shore and replaced by services did our national deficits start to increase. We did not change the design of our tax system with the changing design of our economy.
 

AWRTR

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From what I can gather Musk is looking to target specific Congressional seats to create a voting bloc that can stop the excesses of both parties. It doesn't seem he's looking at this point to try to run people everywhere or for the presidency. It's a novel idea. I doubt it works, but you never know.

I know Musk has his haters, but what he's saying about the spending in the federal government is true. The American people as a whole has no appetite to really fix any of it, and neither does any president or Congress we have elected or any I see us electing. We will Thelma and Louise this thing right off a cliff in my opinion and then you will have three choices: real cuts, massive tax increases, or inflate your way out of it. You could do some level of all three, but that would make sense so we won't do that. I say whoever is in Congress and the WH will go with inflate. It will be a bad day. A person that shorts the market and times it right could pass Musk as the richest man in the world.
 

selmaborntidefan

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The American people as a whole has no appetite to really fix any of it, and neither does any president or Congress we have elected or any I see us electing. We will Thelma and Louise this thing right off a cliff in my opinion and then you will have three choices: real cuts, massive tax increases, or inflate your way out of it.
Even if one (some?) did, the idea of sacrifice is so 20th century.

The problem is simply the problem of human nature, and I don't see that going anywhere any time soon. People are jealous of what other people make or have and elective politics is built upon the concept of making them fear what the "other" person is going to do to you OR being envious of a break someone else got that you didn't.

I don't care what any chest thumper says, nobody is going to "buy American" if it costs three times what an import does. Nobody who professes to believe in affirmative action is going to resign their job and say, "Give my job to this (fill in the blank with oppressed group of your choice)." Nobody who professes to believe in "free healthcare" (a hilarious term for "government funded healthcare") is going to pay over half of his/her salary in taxes just so some poor person gets a free pill and ambulance ride. I don't care what they say, they're not going to do it.

And the politicians know this, of course, so they appeal to us at our own level of selfishness, always lathered with just enough of how "this" idea helps a lot of people but always in the future and always a promise.

What's funny, though, is a dictatorship won't work for the precise same reason(s) - and others - even though putting all the decisions in the hands of one presumably smart person would cut out all the varied opinions.