Evolution vs. Creationism

[wisten]

Before I really rip this can of worms open, I'll state that I stand firmly on the side of creationism. Now for my tenets of discussion:

The start of life
There are no recorded instances of a biological process starting spontaneously. AI, Nanobots, and other technical innovations that replicate, have a degree of awareness, and simulate life could be said to be alive, but, alas, they were not created by random convergence of various factors, but by a living entity, in that case man.

Earth in Seven Days
Actually six. Now, look at the hebrew word "yom" and realize also that the hebrew language was only some 3,000 words in breadth. "Yom" reflected a period of time, be it days, weeks, months, years, eons, and so forth. A second consideration is that several translations offer: "In the beginning, God greated the heavens and the earth..." Between the first instance of celestial bodies and the actual events establishing life on this planet are vague in terms of time. It looks like the earth is several billion years old, and crafted over eons to reach the state in which we are today.

Dinosaurs
God created all manner of animals, and set all manner of sequences in motion, from weather, to the function of the earth's tetonic plates, to the currents in the oceans. Dinosaurs are certainly as real as the rest of the evidence we are discovering about our world.

Ancient Man
Some of the studies are flat hoaxes, such as the "Piltdown Man" (correct me if I am wrong about this one, and the Neanderthal is widely believed to be more akin to a large bipedal chimpanzee than to modern man. The "missing link" or "missing cascading series of links and evolutional events" will remain precisely that: Missing.

Intelligent Design
In the creation of anything from a simple paper airplane to a retrovirus, show me anything occuring randomly that has a defined purpose and action that was not created by intelligent design. I'll go one further, show me anything that has a purpose at all then trace a sequence of random events to support its existance.

Miracles
Many of the miracles outlined in the Bible and even in other religious works have a strong basis in science and nature. The plagues, the flood, and others reflect that God uses nature often to effect his works.

Fact is, most die-hard evolutionists are so dead set on the fact th2C and set all manner of sequences in motion, from weather, to the function of the earth's tetonic plates, to the currents in the oceans. Dinosaurs are certainly as real as the rest of the evidence we are discovering about our world.

Ancient Man
Some of the studies are flat hoaxes, such as the "Piltdown Man" (correct me if I am wrong about this one, and the Neanderthal is widely believed to be more akin to a large bipedal chimpanzee than to modern man. The "missing link" or "missing cascading series of links and evolutional events" will remain precisely that: Missing.

Intelligent Design
In the creation of anything from a simple paper airplane to a retrovirus, show me anything occuring randomly that has a defined purpose and action that was not created by intelligent design. I'll go one further, show me anything that has a purpose at all then trace a sequence of random events to support its existance.

Miracles
Many of the miracles outlined in the Bible and even in other religious works have a strong basis in science and nature. The plagues, the flood, and others reflect that God uses nature often to effect his works.

Fact is, most die-hard evolutionists are so dead set on the fact that there is no God, that they are a random occurance, I submit to them, how do they know that they even exist at all?

 

[Ldlane]

Why can't both exist?

 

[wisten]

That's my point. I believe that they both do exist.

 

[Piglet]

Depends on where we are. I'm in church or prayin', I believe Genesis. I'm among scientists, I'll go with Darwin. And I don't care. There's other things more worthy of me getting in a snoot about them.

 

[Pluck and Grit]

I don't care if we came from monkeys or from dirt, it still doesn't change the fact that I don't own a car.

 

[blackumbrella]

i don't mind repeating myself and will gladly do so tomorrow. in the mean time, wisten, since bamabake flaked out on his pledge to present a creationist theory accounting for the evidence cited in the ala sheriff anti-gay thread, maybe you'd care to try your hand at it. for purposes of comparison.

 

[blackumbrella]

I don't care if we came from monkeys or from dirt, it still doesn't change the fact that I don't own a car.

man, i wish i'd said that.

 

[wisten]

i don't mind repeating myself and will gladly do so tomorrow. in the mean time, wisten, since bamabake flaked out on his pledge to present a creationist theory accounting for the evidence cited in the ala sheriff anti-gay thread, maybe you'd care to try your hand at it. for purposes of comparison.

I thought I had started concept with the post I used to open this thread, but I will review the thread yet again and try to determine what additional points of evidence you wish to debate about my stance.

 

[bamabake]

i don't mind repeating myself and will gladly do so tomorrow. in the mean time, wisten, since bamabake flaked out on his pledge to present a creationist theory accounting for the evidence cited in the ala sheriff anti-gay thread, maybe you'd care to try your hand at it. for purposes of comparison.

I didnt flake out. I said during the week I didnt have time. I have 2 prospects and 2 franchisees in the next 2 days. You are one to talk. As I pointed out evlolutionist have the burden on them to disprove creationism or to prove evolution. You never came close. I already knew that there were extint species of ape like creatures yadda yadda. Even though you failed, and even admitted that something from nothing came from some unexplaine "metaphysical " somethng or other, I will throw you a bone. Dont go to another thread and act as if you have dispatched me. Again me thinks you think way too much of your own efforts here and really, concidering the lack of evidence, you shouldnt.


cheers

 

[TexasBama]

Ancient Man
Some of the studies are flat hoaxes, such as the "Piltdown Man" (correct me if I am wrong about this one, and the Neanderthal is widely believed to be more akin to a large bipedal chimpanzee than to modern man. The "missing link" or "missing cascading series of links and evolutional events" will remain precisely that:

The Aubrun and Aggy student body is a good argument against this point of view.

 

[Displaced Bama Fan]

I'm a Creation Evolutionist. I have a strong belief in God and believe he set the laws of physics in motion. How we got here is a great question and one I hope to have answered in the here after.

 

[TexasBama]

I'm a Creation Evolutionist. I have a strong belief in God and believe he set the laws of physics in motion. How we got here is a great question and one I hope to have answered in the here after.

I read Darwin's stuff years ago; the flaw in his theory, which he admits, is basically what drives evolution to a higher order, since the basis is statistically random.

In my mind, it takes at least as much faith to believe in Darwin's stuff wholehog as in a divinely directed evolution/creations.

The bottom line is nobody KNOWS.

 

[Displaced Bama Fan]

Exactly. As a result, I have no other alternative but to believe that there was "intelligent" intervention at some point that created the human race.

 

[wisten]

I'm a Creation Evolutionist. I have a strong belief in God and believe he set the laws of physics in motion. How we got here is a great question and one I hope to have answered in the here after.

Excellent point. Too many times, people assume that those with religious beliefs are simpletons who blindly follow whatever is offered to them. Those that think that way are shocked and scared when they realize that your typical Christian is not only intelligent, but well prepared for a debate, and many times, will debunk an empty theory with the gross gaps in that theory that make it a theory in the first place.

 

[bamabake]

Excellent point. Too many times, people assume that those with religious beliefs are simpletons who blindly follow whatever is offered to them. Those that think that way are shocked and scared when they realize that your typical Christian is not only intelligent, but well prepared for a debate, and many times, will debunk an empty theory with the gross gaps in that theory that make it a theory in the first place.

Well you touched on the real rebut to evolution. It is intellegent design. There is VASTLY more proof of that than the notion that we all came from slime that suddenly decided to evolve to survive. There is VASTLY more eveidence to suport ID than such a silly notion. The absence of reason wafts about te theory of evolution like a rotten pre-slime fish.

 

[blackumbrella]

Well you touched on the real rebut to evolution. It is intellegent design. There is VASTLY more proof of that than the notion that we all came from slime that suddenly decided to evolve to survive. There is VASTLY more eveidence to suport ID than such a silly notion. The absence of reason wafts about te theory of evolution like a rotten pre-slime fish.

still eagerly awaiting your presentation of such evidence in a comprehensively evidence-accounting-for theory.

 

[drsmithofga]

still eagerly awaiting your presentation of such evidence in a comprehensively evidence-accounting-for theory.

As an observer of this discussion, I think that you, sir, have been challenged to provide evidence of your position, and for that I eagerly await. As a matter of fact, I've waited for many years.

 

[blackumbrella]

Before I really rip this can of worms open, I'll state that I stand firmly on the side of creationism. Now for my tenets of discussion:

The start of life
There are no recorded instances of a biological process starting spontaneously. AI, Nanobots, and other technical innovations that replicate, have a degree of awareness, and simulate life could be said to be alive, but, alas, they were not created by random convergence of various factors, but by a living entity, in that case man.

nope. inorganic conditions which reliably produce organic compounds can be simulated by high schoolers. urea

Earth in Seven Days
Actually six. Now, look at the hebrew word "yom" and realize also that the hebrew language was only some 3,000 words in breadth. "Yom" reflected a period of time, be it days, weeks, months, years, eons, and so forth. A second consideration is that several translations offer: "In the beginning, God greated the heavens and the earth..." Between the first instance of celestial bodies and the actual events establishing life on this planet are vague in terms of time. It looks like the earth is several billion years old, and crafted over eons to reach the state in which we are today.

well that's a simple enough arbitrariness--it can mean as long as you want. well let's look at the order.

1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth inas: and God saw that it was good.


1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dothe earth inas: and God saw that it was good.


1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fi the open firmsaw that it was good.


1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

~the earth and 'heavens' (whatever that means) were created before the sun and moon?
~the grass and trees were created before the sun and moon?
~fish and birds were created concurrently, before terrestial creatures? as b-law would say, history is not on your side.
~moreover, if man was created last, how do we explain the species appearing only since the first appearance of man, even if man is defined as anatomically modern homo sapiens.

Dinosaurs
God created all manner of animals, and set all manner of sequences in motion, from weather, to the function of the earth's tetonic plates, to the currents in the ocesh of the sea%2minion over the fi the open firmsaw that it was good.


1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

~the earth and 'heavens' (whatever that means) were created before the sun and moon?
~the grass and trees were created before the sun and moon?
~fish and birds were created concurrently, before terrestial creatures? as b-law would say, history is not on your side.
~moreover, if man was created last, how do we explain the species appearing only since the first appearance of man, even if man is defined as anatomically modern homo sapiens.

Dinosaurs
God created all manner of animals, and set all manner of sequences in motion, from weather, to the function of the earth's tetonic plates, to the currents in the ocesh of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

is it such a stretch to believe evolution is one of these processes god set in motion?

Ancient Man
Some of the studies are flat hoaxes, such as the "Piltdown Man" (correct me if I am wrong about this one, and the Neanderthal is widely believed to be more akin to a large bipedal chimpanzee than to modern man.

no. neandertals are essentially our dead brothers, and, i might add, a monkeywrench (hold applause) to the idea that homo sapiens sapiens
are 'superior' based on encephalization quotients bc homo spaiens neadertalensis had larger brains relative to body weight (i don't recall exactly but i think the encaphalization factor is soC and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.


[/QUOTE]

is it such a stretch to believe evolution is one of these processes god set in motion?

Ancient Man
Some of the studies are flat hoaxes, such as the "Piltdown Man" (correct me if I am wrong about this one, and the Neanderthal is widely believed to be more akin to a large bipedal chimpanzee than to modern man.

no. neandertals are essentially our dead brothers, and, i might add, a monkeywrench (hold applause) to the idea that homo sapiens sapiens
are 'superior' based on encephalization quotients bc homo spaiens neadertalensis had larger brains relative to body weight (i don't recall exactly but i think the encaphalization factor is something like brain weight relative to body weigt X 0.7).

The "missing link" or "missing cascading series of links and evolutional events" will remain precisely that: Missing.

see the other thread. this is like me claiming your son is not your son bc i have no transitional form btwn you and him.

Intelligent Design
In the creation of anything from a simple paper airplane to a retrovirus, show me anything occuring randomly that has a defined purpose and action that was not created by intelligent design. I'll go one further, show me anything that has a purpose at all then trace a sequence of random events to support its existance.

teleological fallacy

Miracles
Many of the miracles outlined in the Bible and even in other religious works have a strong basis in science and nature.

document this assertion

Fact is, most die-hard evolutionists are so dead set on the fact that there is no God,

document this assertion

 

[blackumbrella]

As an observer of this discussion, I think that you, sir, have been challenged to provide evidence of your position, and for that I eagerly await. As a matter of fact, I've waited for many years.

dr, read the thread where all this began ala sheriff anit-gay

 

[blackumbrella]

sorry it's all doubled up. tried to fix it.