Fauci's diary released - he lied?

[81usaf92]

I think it’s weird that Rand Paul can get his hands on somebody’s PRIVATE diary and leak it but can’t leak an unredacted Epstein file or leak true information on the Iranian nuclear capabilities prior to this global catastrophe that his president has started.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I think it’s weird that Rand Paul can get his hands on somebody’s PRIVATE diary and leak it but can’t leak an unredacted Epstein file or leak true information on the Iranian nuclear capabilities prior to this global catastrophe that his president has started.

I've wondered that about a lot of things the government has gotten their hands on over the years. But I also don't understand why these politicians like Biden, allow people to record private conversations and think they're going to stay private just because the reporter is told "Don't share this." I saw on the news last night where there are recorded conversations some reporter has from Biden back in 2017 and in it Biden tells the guy to "not release this part". LOL! Really?! The moment he said that he can guarantee that at just the right moment and time, it's getting released.

 

[UAH]

It would also be helpful if he didn’t have a president who didn’t lie or exaggerate the truth ALL of the time too.

It is interesting isn't it that no one is calling Trump to testify on how he downplayed the virus when he had information on the contagion well ahead of it being publically known. Now that I think about it I do recall refrigerated vans being set up as temporary morgues when the system could not handle the number of people dying from the virus.

I have never been a cheerleader for Fauci at all. I would ask what is served by having another Benghazi type hearing while ripping out our capability to handle the next pandemic and questiong the efficacy of long proven vaccines.

 

[92tide]

Early mortality estimates were up to 5-10% of cases, which is what was observed with SARS.

As testing became available it clearly was less dangerous, but the mortality rate was not clearly pinned down until the middle of 2020. Early severe cases were striking for how sick those patients were and rose dramatically, I don't think anyone wanted to underestimate the risks.

We've had 1.2 million deaths so far. Without vaccine that would have reached 4 million, as the vaccines prevented 3 million deaths and 20 million hospitalizations. An additional million plus deaths were averted due to masking and closures and other measures. Please note, there are good studies evaluating these numbers, critics love to criticize them, but have produced no work suggesting otherwise.

Also, early on there was substantial concern about a lab leak, but as the genetic sequencing data firmed up around May of 2020, it became pretty clear that it was unlikely. The current conspiracy theories have little evidence to back them up. That being the case, the CCP has been extremely uncooperative and we will never learn anything further from them. I would say the lab leakers need to actually provide evidence rather than "common sense" theories.

thanks for the info. this has all been well known for years, yet here we go again

lestat would be jealous of the immortality of conservative boogeymen and conspiracy theories

 

[92tide]

It is interesting isn't it that no one is calling Trump to testify on how he downplayed the virus when he had information on the contagion well ahead of it being publically known. Now that I think about it I do recall refrigerated vans being set up as temporary morgues when the system could not handle the number of people dying from the virus.

I have never been a cheerleader for Fauci at all. I would ask what is served by having another Benghazi type hearing while ripping out our capability to handle the next pandemic and questiong the efficacy of long proven vaccines.

distraction, that is what is served by another hearing

the only reason any of us know who fauci is is because he was turned into a foil by a bunch of conspiracy theorists

 

[bamacpa]

It was deadly to those it was deadly to and wasn't deadly to those it wasn't. That was the curveball the disease threw society. There literally were millions of people who contracted COVID and had zero symptoms or symptoms of nothing more than a cold. Then you had millions that it was very harmful to and either killed them or left them with permanent health problems. But as usual, we as a society have to "pick a side" and turn it into a competition, a "I'm wrong and you're right" about something that neither side really fully understood in real time.

This is what I’ve wondered - why did my former coworker die a horrible death after 2 weeks in ICU and I got a cold with no long term symptoms I can identify. What caused the morbidity to vary? That seems like useful info we might want for the next outbreak.

 

[dayhiker]

distraction, that is what is served by another hearing

the only reason any of us know who fauci is is because he was turned into a foil by a bunch of conspiracy theorists

Just because someone calls bull crap on some of Fauci's stuff, doesn't make them a conspiracy theorist.

 

[arthurdawg]

distraction, that is what is served by another hearing

the only reason any of us know who fauci is is because he was turned into a foil by a bunch of conspiracy theorists

Fauci has been considered a leading light in medicine for years. Pioneered the first trial of Cytoxan in the initial curative therapy of Wegener's Granulomatosis and major research into numerous areas of infectious disease research and drug resistance in bacteria. He also oversaw groundbreaking work in HIV.

Also... Probably an arrogant jerk, but a guy who put in the work for many years and has proven himself many times over to benefit of humanity.

Think of this... despite the controversy he certainly knew it would engender, he did not try to hide the journal or anything else. He freely acknowledge the fact that they were dealing with scant and immature data up front during the first half year of the pandemic and that they made mistakes that they corrected as they went along. All in the setting of the Trump administration.

 

[92tide]

Fauci has been considered a leading light in medicine for years.

until he made dear leader look bad

 

[92tide]

Just because someone calls bull crap on some of Fauci's stuff, doesn't make them a conspiracy theorist.

no it doesn’t. i consider the non-conspiracy theorists who spread the conspiracy theorists bs pretending it’s legit discussion as a separate group

 

[dayhiker]

no it doesn’t. i consider the non-conspiracy theorists who spread the conspiracy theorists bs pretending it’s legit discussion as a separate group

The problem is, you don't often know it's bs on the front end. That was part of the problem then. Anyone that questioned the narrative because it smelled bad was immediately labeled a conspiracy theorist. Some of their stuff wound up being correct.

 

[Bamaro]

I guess people now forget about the refrigerated trailers storing the covid corpses and the lack of ventilators needed to service those in the hospitals.
We're screwed if we forget and continue to allow 'politics' to make medical policy for us in the future.

 

[4Q Basket Case]

There are several things coming together here.

-- There was so much about COVID that nobody knew. Not the CDC, not Fauci, not anybody. But they didn't say that. They made broad pronouncements, forever citing "the science." When they knew, but didn't admit, that "the science" was far from settled.

-- I think they did so because they feared that if they didn't, nobody would pay any attention. Problem is, when busted on that, subsequent real advances (like the vaccines) are doubted. Couple that with loonies saying that the vaccine is worse than COVID, and you have a recipe for intransigent skepticism.

-- On a percentage basis, the incidence of serious illness or death was material, but not unheard of. The problem was the combination of (1) that strain of COVID was highly contagious, and (2) it was new, so there was no immunity of any sort built up in the population.

So while the percentage of serious illness or death might have been manageable, you had a massive top line number of people getting sick. So an otherwise manageable percentage of serious illness or death translates into a huge number of bad sick and dying people, overwhelming the healthcare system.

-- We still don't know for sure. But it's looking more and more like it originated in the lab. Early on, Fauci himself felt that the animal market wasn't the source but rather the first place where there was close contact amongst people who theretofore hadn't been exposed, with people who had. Which made it the first super-spreader event.

-- But when evidence (as distinct from proof, which we still don't have) started pointing to the lab as a possible source, the mainstream media started labelling anyone who called it out as a loony conspiracy theorist. Turns out they might or might not have been right. As arthurdawg states, I don't think we'll ever know for sure. But it was definitely not a baseless contention.

This was another instance of the scientists and mainstream media arrogantly telling the public to get in line and mind their betters. Which didn't go over so well and caused a bunch of people to solidify their opposition.....if only so they never had to admit they were wrong.

-- None of that negates the massively positive effect of the vaccines. I still get one every six months or so, and about a month before I get on an airplane, aka germ tube.

I think it comes down to ego with a mixer of money. The scientists didn't want to admit they didn't know because they liked being the smartest folks in the room. The anti-vaxxers didn't want to admit the data wasn't in their favor because they weren't going to let a bunch of pointy-headed academics tell them what to do. The anti-vax SM influencers wanted to keep the money flowing, and the scientists wanted to keep funding for this and other future projects.

So yeah, it was a mess, and the lack of leadership from the Executive Branch certainly didn't help. Do you remember that he was one of the very first to get the vaccine?

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Fauci has been considered a leading light in medicine for years. Pioneered the first trial of Cytoxan in the initial curative therapy of Wegener's Granulomatosis and major research into numerous areas of infectious disease research and drug resistance in bacteria. He also oversaw groundbreaking work in HIV.

Also... Probably an arrogant jerk, but a guy who put in the work for many years and has proven himself many times over to benefit of humanity.

Think of this... despite the controversy he certainly knew it would engender, he did not try to hide the journal or anything else. He freely acknowledge the fact that they were dealing with scant and immature data up front during the first half year of the pandemic and that they made mistakes that they corrected as they went along. All in the setting of the Trump administration.

Wegener's is what killed my daughter...

 

[92tide]

The problem is, you don't often know it's bs on the front end. That was part of the problem then. Anyone that questioned the narrative because it smelled bad was immediately labeled a conspiracy theorist. Some of their stuff wound up being correct.

every conspiracy has a few bits that are “correct”. it’s part of what makes them palatable to so many

 

[Bamabuzzard]

There are several things coming together here.

* There was so much about COVID that nobody knew. Not the CDC, not Fauci, not anybody. But they didn't say that. They made broad pronouncements, forever citing "the science." When they knew, but didn't admit, that "the science" was far from settled.

**We still don't know for sure. But it's looking more and more like it originated in the lab. Early on, Fauci himself felt that the animal market wasn't the source but rather the first place where there was close contact amongst people who theretofore hadn't been exposed, with people who had. Which made it the first super-spreader event.

* This. We had too many people in authoritative positions speaking confidently about something that they really didn't know that much about. Maybe they did it because they didn't want the people to think they were clueless and it would cause more panic than there already was. Who knows? But I do know too many people with influence were proclaiming information that in reality they had no real proof of. That's why time has made some of the things they said look like they were "lying" or just plain clueless. It would have been better to take a more humble, "hey, we're learning as we go about this" approach.

**Too many people were too worried about China's "feelings". Too many people didn't want to even think about that if the virus came from the lab due to negligence, it would open the door to conversations that could have put some serious strain between the US and China. My first thought when a lab leak was suggested was global liability by China to the countries it impacted the most. But "we" shut that down by calling "racist" anyone who suggested that China was negligent and the virus leaked from the lab.

I can guarantee you this, if the COVID19 virus had originated and leaked in a lab in the US, you can bet your soul countries would have been demanding the US pay monetary damages that the virus had on their country. Because we're the country who completely rebuilds countries that we bomb. I'm sure governments across the world sit and pray their country gets bombed by us because they know we're going to turn around and rebuild it better than it ever was. I'll go back inside now.

 

[81usaf92]

In the end Trump shut down the country not Fauci. If you want to say Fauci influenced it then ask yourself this… why wasn’t the country shut down during SARS or Ebola? The answer is that competent and semi competent leadership allows pragmatic action. Totally incompetent leadership allows chaos. Look no further to “We have won the Iran War” while looking at your gas pump.

 

[arthurdawg]

-- On a percentage basis, the incidence of serious illness or death was material, but not unheard of. The problem was the combination of (1) that strain of COVID was highly contagious, and (2) it was new, so there was no immunity of any sort built up in the population.

So while the percentage of serious illness or death might have been manageable, you had a massive top line number of people getting sick. So an otherwise manageable percentage of serious illness or death translates into a huge number of bad sick and dying people, overwhelming the healthcare system.

-- We still don't know for sure. But it's looking more and more like it originated in the lab. Early on, Fauci himself felt that the animal market wasn't the source but rather the first place where there was close contact amongst people who theretofore hadn't been exposed, with people who had. Which made it the first super-spreader event.

-- But when evidence (as distinct from proof, which we still don't have) started pointing to the lab as a possible source, the mainstream media started labelling anyone who called it out as a loony conspiracy theorist. Turns out they might or might not have been right. As arthurdawg states, I don't think we'll ever know for sure. But it was definitely not a baseless contention.

-- This was another instance of the scientists and mainstream media arrogantly telling the public to get in line and mind their betters. Which didn't go over so well and caused a bunch of people to solidify their opposition.....if only so they never had to admit they were wrong.

One of the major concerns was that early on the New York and Northern Italy outbreaks exploded and overwhelmed the systems there. It led to a excess mortality and it wasn't clear if that would happen in multiple areas. The early COVID patients were sick as stink. While the majority of those in the hospital survived, they required fluids, antibiotics, tons of supportive care, and often ICU care. We were pushing the limits of Huntsville Hospital more than once during 2020 and 2021. I have to give kudos to the hospital folks for managing the volume.

I'm honestly not impressed with the lab leak dataset. There is no evidence that WVI had a strain of coronavirus similar to COVID prior to the pandemic, and they are a well published lab with many collaborators around the world and published inventories of viral strains. They were not a shady or secretive center, and were in Wuhan because the region has a large diversity of animal coronaviruses. There are several thousand known strains of animal coronaviruses and given the outbreak of SARS, the Chinese have a vested interest in research into them. And SE Asia is a hotspot.

The one major early finding that was very concerning is that COVID has a furin cleavage site that is unusual for the sarbecoviruses, but aren't unknown in coronaviruses on the whole. For example: MERS has furin cleavage site. This is what Fauci and the gang were hot and bothered about, and if the cleavage site could have been genetically engineered into the virus. As the sequencing data accumulated, this concern was greatly alleviated. That and the epidemiology still strongly suggests the wet market was a primary trigger containing animals known to carry coronaviruses.

That leaves the perhaps coincidental location of the WVI across the city from the wet market as the only connection or reason for concern... 7 miles and a 45 minute car trip... Still, as we've noted... We are unlikely to have further disclosures made, but that doesn't really prove anything either way.

The final point was that while the follow the science people made some bad missteps and there are points to be made about the mainstream media. Don't let that detract from the absolutely reprehensible flood of misinformation that led people to not seek medical care and to die because they declined effective therapies. The misinformation campaign was much worse than any problems on the other side and was in full swing by April with tons of money thrown into it by the Koch brothers and other entities.

 

[Its On A Slab]

Possibly. Probably even.

But when his recommendations shut down the entire country, creating disastrous years for school-age kids and crushing businesses (in same cases doing permanent (or at least long term) damage to entire industries) I don’t care what the motivation or intent were.

Tell us the truth and let us determine the best course under your expert advisement.

Monday morning quarterbacking at its finest.

 

[dayhiker]

Monday morning quarterbacking at its finest.

Often, learning what went wrong and why is important and useful.