Fresh Textbook Thread...
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"Brand. Let me say this once, and I'm not going to waste any more time and energy on you scorched earth types. This is not expected to be anything like the last time. In fact, we turned down a deal of one scholly loss. To me, that doesn't sound like "rolling over." Now, sue them 15K times. What the hell for? What's the suit going to state that they've done wrong? Don't have a COI meeting? You can't sue somebody on the grounds that you think they might be unfair to you. Could we maybe just wait and see what the COI outcome is (first time we could possibly have grounds, and, to be realistic WE WILL NEVER HAVE ANY GROUNDS), before we don our confederate grey and charge into the mouths of the canons??? As you can tell, I'm starting to lose patience with some of this nonsense..."
What is this? Admin, please elaborate on your comment above. Are you saying the NCAA offered a deal off one lost scholly over this bookgate deal, and we rejected it?
If so, it sounds like we are fairly confident in containing this.
What is this? Admin, please elaborate on your comment above. Are you saying the NCAA offered a deal off one lost scholly over this bookgate deal, and we rejected it?
If so, it sounds like we are fairly confident in containing this.
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I just want to interject that this doesn't just involve the football program, although this thread is dedicated to the football team. My understanding is there are other athletes from other teams who were involved and so we don't know if any scholarship limitations (or not) (unless there are those here who know otherwise) will directly affect the football program.
That said, the main thing to be dealt with is "if" the NCAA chooses to look at this as a continuation as a "repeat offender" and continue us as a "repeat offender status...." In my mind, that is a significant factor.
In the past, we have chosen the wrong approach (in hindsight, UA has realized this and made public statements to this back this up) to the way they handled their dealings with the NCAA. Their handling of the NCAA "possibly" brought harder sanctions. Many certainly believe that to be true. I believe that with the experience UA has had in the past with the NCAA and with statements given by those at UA regarding past sanctions and the University's dedication to compliance, the University will do everything within it's power to ensure that it will receive the most favorable outcome with this situation possible. This means being as proactive as possible from every possible angle.
Ray Perkins gave a speech in Mobile on Thursday that had the house on it's feet (I don't have the speech to post here) but it was a doosy...and he basically said the same thing I'm saying but more like Perk says things...more like this:
(paraphrased)
We've let 'em come in and run all over us in the past and we've had things we could've done to protect ourselves from allegations but we thought we were taking the high road and doing the right thing when we were really hanging ourselves. Well, no more. Things that have happened to us with the NCAA will never, I mean never, happen to us again....
That pretty much sums up what I truly believe the mentality is with the administration is at The University of Alabama is, the alumni base is, and the fanbase is. We have thought we were doing right in the past and got the worst treatment, and now we are going to fight and do what's right for us and we're not going to take anything without a fight.
I say "we" collectively as "we" Alabama family....
I believe this will be okay, from everything I "hear" it will but again, we just have to wait and see in May when we get our letter from the NCAA.
In the meantime, (I'm no FSU fan) but the Bowden family are friends of my mother's family....Bobby's children grew up with my mother....my heart goes out to Bobby Bowden. He's a good guy, his wife is wonderful and that man will simply NOT retire. He watched his Dad die right after he retired and saw Coach Bryant do the same thing. I believe he is afraid to retire. I want to see him go out a winner. This breaks my heart for Bobby Bowden. It really does. My prayers are with the entire Bowden family and the coaches there at FSU.....we all can sympathize with what they are going through. Bobby is a Birmingham "boy" and always will be. We need to remember that before we judge him. We leave judging for the Lord and extend our hands of help and prayer for those who need it.
That said, the main thing to be dealt with is "if" the NCAA chooses to look at this as a continuation as a "repeat offender" and continue us as a "repeat offender status...." In my mind, that is a significant factor.
In the past, we have chosen the wrong approach (in hindsight, UA has realized this and made public statements to this back this up) to the way they handled their dealings with the NCAA. Their handling of the NCAA "possibly" brought harder sanctions. Many certainly believe that to be true. I believe that with the experience UA has had in the past with the NCAA and with statements given by those at UA regarding past sanctions and the University's dedication to compliance, the University will do everything within it's power to ensure that it will receive the most favorable outcome with this situation possible. This means being as proactive as possible from every possible angle.
Ray Perkins gave a speech in Mobile on Thursday that had the house on it's feet (I don't have the speech to post here) but it was a doosy...and he basically said the same thing I'm saying but more like Perk says things...more like this:
(paraphrased)
We've let 'em come in and run all over us in the past and we've had things we could've done to protect ourselves from allegations but we thought we were taking the high road and doing the right thing when we were really hanging ourselves. Well, no more. Things that have happened to us with the NCAA will never, I mean never, happen to us again....
That pretty much sums up what I truly believe the mentality is with the administration is at The University of Alabama is, the alumni base is, and the fanbase is. We have thought we were doing right in the past and got the worst treatment, and now we are going to fight and do what's right for us and we're not going to take anything without a fight.
I say "we" collectively as "we" Alabama family....
I believe this will be okay, from everything I "hear" it will but again, we just have to wait and see in May when we get our letter from the NCAA.
In the meantime, (I'm no FSU fan) but the Bowden family are friends of my mother's family....Bobby's children grew up with my mother....my heart goes out to Bobby Bowden. He's a good guy, his wife is wonderful and that man will simply NOT retire. He watched his Dad die right after he retired and saw Coach Bryant do the same thing. I believe he is afraid to retire. I want to see him go out a winner. This breaks my heart for Bobby Bowden. It really does. My prayers are with the entire Bowden family and the coaches there at FSU.....we all can sympathize with what they are going through. Bobby is a Birmingham "boy" and always will be. We need to remember that before we judge him. We leave judging for the Lord and extend our hands of help and prayer for those who need it.
This whole scenario just fills me with such a sense of futility. I don't understand the NCAA's actions in most cases, sure. And I know that violations must be investigated and punished. But this was widely reported over a year and a half ago (or thereabout). We suspended all the players; in turn, we lost some games that ruined our season. What more punishment should a team have?
As an organization with zero credibility (and they know this), shouldn't the NCAA be trying to sniff out actual improprieties and deal with them, rather than digging up stuff like this and blowing it up into a huge deal?
Textbooks? Seriously, NCAA? Grow up, behave like adult men and women, and actually do the job you are paid to do--to root out serious improprieties in college athletics.
As an organization with zero credibility (and they know this), shouldn't the NCAA be trying to sniff out actual improprieties and deal with them, rather than digging up stuff like this and blowing it up into a huge deal?
Textbooks? Seriously, NCAA? Grow up, behave like adult men and women, and actually do the job you are paid to do--to root out serious improprieties in college athletics.
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Paterno has actually said that about retirement and Coach Bryant. River, I wish I hadn't said that about one scholly, because my confidence in that statement is not as high as when I usually post something. However, the fact that we're going before the COI indicates there was not a meeting of minds, no matter what the offer was by either side. And, Derek, yes, I think it could, but I know nothing to indicate that Hart doesn't have the confidence of the Administration and the BOT...
I do believe the NCAA "enforcement" division has lost a lot of their "power" or "mystique" they once had or were perceived to have had in the last ten years or since they hammered Alabama. How many programs have they actually come after since that time? They hit Indiana's basketball program, and I can't think of another program off hand since then until yesterday when they hit FSU.
We can get into all this conspiracy theory about "SEC" teams and "Southern teams" stuff and if you actually look at the makeup of the board of the NCAA, you'll see where one could come up with these scenarios.....these people come from schools or sit on boards at schools where we don't think of "football" as a power sport. But they DO have sports.....just other sports. One man's junk is another man's treasure....hard to argue that in the SEC, though, I realize.
However, we must realize that this textbook thing was NOT just athletes from the football program. The NCAA is not just looking at the football team. This is a fact. Some of these things we are "hearing" may not even include sanctions affecting our football team. We know for a fact that the women's track team had a member involved. Or at least I know that; it may not be common knowledge.
I don't think it's panic-mode time. Our administrators took appropriate measures, they took timely measures and no matter what Cecil Hurt said (he file for papers under the FOIA, that has nothing to do with the NCAA and doesn't make the case worse - he was just going drama queen on everyone, if you read his story, sorry Cecil....lol) the school did everything possible. How could anyone have known that an athlete designated for a certain class under a certain professor would not need a certain textbook because that certain professor would not use that textbook but other professors would? So, the athlete, not needing that textbook gave the textbook to another student in that same class but under another professor needed it? I mean, professors give their list of supplies to the supply store well ahead of time in order to get the books ready for the students.....if the professors aren't going to use them - shouldn't they NOT put the books on their list of materials? This is common sense stuff. It's really kind of getting down to nit-picking, in my opinion. And, from what I understand, I think everything was accounted for and handled AND explained.
So, let's all chill and look forward to a GREAT A-DAY where ESPN will be televising and if Lee and Herb begin talking about any of this - we'll just make LOTS OF NOISE and drown out this talk and the stadium will be full and it will be a beautiful CRIMSON and WHITE DAY !!!! ROLL TIDE ROLL!:BigA:
We can get into all this conspiracy theory about "SEC" teams and "Southern teams" stuff and if you actually look at the makeup of the board of the NCAA, you'll see where one could come up with these scenarios.....these people come from schools or sit on boards at schools where we don't think of "football" as a power sport. But they DO have sports.....just other sports. One man's junk is another man's treasure....hard to argue that in the SEC, though, I realize.
However, we must realize that this textbook thing was NOT just athletes from the football program. The NCAA is not just looking at the football team. This is a fact. Some of these things we are "hearing" may not even include sanctions affecting our football team. We know for a fact that the women's track team had a member involved. Or at least I know that; it may not be common knowledge.
I don't think it's panic-mode time. Our administrators took appropriate measures, they took timely measures and no matter what Cecil Hurt said (he file for papers under the FOIA, that has nothing to do with the NCAA and doesn't make the case worse - he was just going drama queen on everyone, if you read his story, sorry Cecil....lol) the school did everything possible. How could anyone have known that an athlete designated for a certain class under a certain professor would not need a certain textbook because that certain professor would not use that textbook but other professors would? So, the athlete, not needing that textbook gave the textbook to another student in that same class but under another professor needed it? I mean, professors give their list of supplies to the supply store well ahead of time in order to get the books ready for the students.....if the professors aren't going to use them - shouldn't they NOT put the books on their list of materials? This is common sense stuff. It's really kind of getting down to nit-picking, in my opinion. And, from what I understand, I think everything was accounted for and handled AND explained.
So, let's all chill and look forward to a GREAT A-DAY where ESPN will be televising and if Lee and Herb begin talking about any of this - we'll just make LOTS OF NOISE and drown out this talk and the stadium will be full and it will be a beautiful CRIMSON and WHITE DAY !!!! ROLL TIDE ROLL!:BigA:
I know that it wasn't just the football team that was involved. However, as far as I understand it, everything (in terms of academic materials) has been accounted for or paid back.
Being a former UA athlete and now current manager, the compliance office is literally on a DEFCOM level in regards to potential violations. When the athletes at the start of every school year go through the many pages of NCAA-related paperwork, the compliance people do not sugarcoat anything. Comliance also holds a meeting with each team (men and women) before the end of the spring semester and goes over what is "OK" for competing at professional events (like summer track & field or summer baseball or basketball). It definitely not something I like to sit through but it's good that they have those meetings.
I have full trust that the UA athletic department is doing what they're supposed to be doing. The FSU and Hart connection makes me uncomfortable, but I also think that some of the football stuff was due to Coach Bowden's ways of handling his athletes catching up to him. That doesn't explain about the other coaches however.
Being a former UA athlete and now current manager, the compliance office is literally on a DEFCOM level in regards to potential violations. When the athletes at the start of every school year go through the many pages of NCAA-related paperwork, the compliance people do not sugarcoat anything. Comliance also holds a meeting with each team (men and women) before the end of the spring semester and goes over what is "OK" for competing at professional events (like summer track & field or summer baseball or basketball). It definitely not something I like to sit through but it's good that they have those meetings.
I have full trust that the UA athletic department is doing what they're supposed to be doing. The FSU and Hart connection makes me uncomfortable, but I also think that some of the football stuff was due to Coach Bowden's ways of handling his athletes catching up to him. That doesn't explain about the other coaches however.
I would love to see the NCAA try and even touch Alabama after they just crucified Florida State and they have not even tried to touch Southern Cal. Florida State should, and I bet will, be screaming over that issue at Southern Cal. Alabama has had back to back Recruiting National Championships, we just got a deal to let ESPN show the A-Day game, Alabama is becoming the media darling again, you've got Keller in Scottsboro who is breathing down the NCAA's neck, you've got the newly Socialist federal government breathing down the NCAA's neck, you've even got Obama having issues with the NCAA, and Southern Cal and Ohio State payed players blatently and they have not been touched by the NCAA.
If the NCAA tries to touch these "major" academic infractions, then they need to come hard after Auburn again even after they ruled no "foul" play down on the "Plains." If the NCAA tries to touch Nick Saban, Nick Saban will eat the NCAA for breakfast. I doubt any penalties will be handed to Alabama, and if there are some given to Alabama I can almost bet you Alabama is going to dig and dig hard on Southern Cal, Ole Miss, Tennessee, Auburn, Ohio State, etc. on any school that may have been through any alledged NCAA infractions allegations to make sure that every school is justly crucified, like Alabama has always been by the NCAA.
If the NCAA tries to touch these "major" academic infractions, then they need to come hard after Auburn again even after they ruled no "foul" play down on the "Plains." If the NCAA tries to touch Nick Saban, Nick Saban will eat the NCAA for breakfast. I doubt any penalties will be handed to Alabama, and if there are some given to Alabama I can almost bet you Alabama is going to dig and dig hard on Southern Cal, Ole Miss, Tennessee, Auburn, Ohio State, etc. on any school that may have been through any alledged NCAA infractions allegations to make sure that every school is justly crucified, like Alabama has always been by the NCAA.
My biggest fear is not the punishment for this particular incident, but the efforts that we will now have to go to in order to keep our nose clean extending into the future, and the PEOPLE THAT WE WILL HAVE IN CHARGE OF THAT--i.e. the acting AD and the compliance/academic advisors. From what i understand, Dave Hart is not officially named anywhere in the FSU/NCAA thing, but what happened there occurred during his watch. Hello?!
careful what you wish for.....the ncaa does things their way, with no regard to precedent or consistency.
Interesting read from Cecil Hurt on the subject:
CECIL HURT: Exactly who was minding the UA store? | TideSports.com | The Tuscaloosa News | Tuscaloosa, AL
Essentially, he's saying that the highest level of the Athletic Department is not taking enough responsibility for the textbook mess. He also makes passing commentary on personal responsibility -- near as I can tell, he's referring to administrators as well as athletes.
It's as close as I've ever seen him come to calling out Mal Moore. He's doing it in a rather oblique way, but doing it nonetheless.
Finally, he's saying that the punishment for this offense shouldn't be too bad, but it's the NCAA and it's Alabama so you never know. Plus, the repeat violator window is open for another several (five?) years.
CECIL HURT: Exactly who was minding the UA store? | TideSports.com | The Tuscaloosa News | Tuscaloosa, AL
Essentially, he's saying that the highest level of the Athletic Department is not taking enough responsibility for the textbook mess. He also makes passing commentary on personal responsibility -- near as I can tell, he's referring to administrators as well as athletes.
It's as close as I've ever seen him come to calling out Mal Moore. He's doing it in a rather oblique way, but doing it nonetheless.
Finally, he's saying that the punishment for this offense shouldn't be too bad, but it's the NCAA and it's Alabama so you never know. Plus, the repeat violator window is open for another several (five?) years.
Cecil asks some highly pertinent questions. Don't think he'll be the last to do so.
We broke the rules, again. We should all be embarrassed. Instead, we rail against the NCAA and its arbitrary regulations. But we admitted to another violation, then built our defense pointing the finger at some of the lowest rungs of our athletic administration. How convenient.
I have no doubt we will mount a better defense this time -- we've had plenty of practice. Big violation or small seems beside the point. Enough is enough.
We rail against the NCAA for their selective enforcement.
While we self-report, admit guilt and get hammered over relatively minor violations, some other programs are being handled with kid gloves while it is obvious to everyone that they are guilty of serious violations. However, they don't report anything, they resist the NCAA at every move and they refuse to cooperate with investigations. It appears that the NCAA is stymied against these programs, so they take out their frustrations on the programs that do cooperate.
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