Hamas attacks Israel - Part 2

i did not realize people still ate at pizza hut /s
There are still three here. The one by the main hospital went bust. It used to be the most popular in town. There's a little medical supply store next to it and I was in there. I was wondering aloud how to get across six lanes of Governors Drive and the cashier told me I could go out the back of the PH parking lot, and added no one was there. He continued that they just disappeared a week prior. I commented on how popular they once were. He said that, in his opinion, the hospital had upgraded its cafeteria to the point that employees and patient families didn't have any incentive to leave for food. I took that with a grain of salt, because, if you're in the Publix a block away around noon, there'll be no shortage of HH employees buying sandwiches. Nevertheless, I'm sure there's a lot of truth in what he said...
 
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The clip of Hala’s killing is one of a growing number that show unarmed civilians holding white flags being shot dead in Gaza. The Geneva-based Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor has said that they are investigating nine such incidents. CNN has examined four cases, including that of Hala Khreis.

CNN made multiple attempts to sit down with the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) to share its findings. They have yet to provide a comment.

Among the most widely reported of the incidents CNN looked at was the shooting of three Israeli hostages, whom the IDF admitted to killing, mistakenly believing their surrender was a trap. The IDF has repeatedly claimed that it is doing everything in its power to avoid harming civilians, but its soldiers shot hostages waving a white flag, violating its rules of engagement and raising questions about those efforts.

Another video, previously reported by CNN, shows a young man on the ground after being shot while trying to evacuate Gaza City. His father, holding a white flag, could be seen crying over his body. The footage doesn’t show the moment he was shot, and the IDF did not reply to CNN’s request for comment.

__________

Committing atrocities against civilians in response to atrocities committed against civilians is not the way to go.

Israel has a right to defend itself.

It does not have a right to commit what are essentially war crimes.
 


The clip of Hala’s killing is one of a growing number that show unarmed civilians holding white flags being shot dead in Gaza. The Geneva-based Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor has said that they are investigating nine such incidents. CNN has examined four cases, including that of Hala Khreis.

CNN made multiple attempts to sit down with the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) to share its findings. They have yet to provide a comment.

Among the most widely reported of the incidents CNN looked at was the shooting of three Israeli hostages, whom the IDF admitted to killing, mistakenly believing their surrender was a trap. The IDF has repeatedly claimed that it is doing everything in its power to avoid harming civilians, but its soldiers shot hostages waving a white flag, violating its rules of engagement and raising questions about those efforts.

Another video, previously reported by CNN, shows a young man on the ground after being shot while trying to evacuate Gaza City. His father, holding a white flag, could be seen crying over his body. The footage doesn’t show the moment he was shot, and the IDF did not reply to CNN’s request for comment.

__________

Committing atrocities against civilians in response to atrocities committed against civilians is not the way to go.

Israel has a right to defend itself.

It does not have a right to commit what are essentially war crimes.
Believe it or not, we are in agreement here. There's a lot of stuff coming out in the indie press that has troubled me greatly about all of this.
 
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According to Stefanik we are both now anti-Semites calling for genocide against Jewish people.

No blue font.
Sigh....yeah, I know. This is popular idiocy all over the country and on both sides of the aisle. I have no use for the real anti-semites who can't stop themselves for blaming everything on the JOOOOOOSSSS. At the same time, I care not a whit for the Zionists (but I still maintain that as a sovereign nation, they still have a right to defend themselves.)
 
Sigh....yeah, I know. This is popular idiocy all over the country and on both sides of the aisle. I have no use for the real anti-semites who can't stop themselves for blaming everything on the JOOOOOOSSSS. At the same time, I care not a whit for the Zionists (but I still maintain that as a sovereign nation, they still have a right to defend themselves.)

The real problem is that the idiots on the republican side are mainstream and in seats of power while the idiots on the far left are out on the fringes and rarely have any power.

The other real problem is that many people can't admit that's true, with few exceptions.

And many believe the republican rhetoric (lies) about democrats despite their (r's) poor track record with truth and reality. That is also a real problem.
 
The real problem is that the idiots on the republican side are mainstream and in seats of power while the idiots on the far left are out on the fringes and rarely have any power.
I've made this observation as well. The Dems have been interestingly efficient in keeping their idiots in line and more importantly, voting like they are supposed to. Say what you want about MAGA, but their rejection of the neocons who run both parties has made elections more interesting than they used to be. At least, that's what they would have you believe. I'm still not convinced they would risk losing an election over their principles.

Make no mistake, however, this COULD happen on the left. Men like Jimmy Dore and Russell Brand are the "pied pipers" of this movement. How successful they will eventually be remains to be seen.
 


The clip of Hala’s killing is one of a growing number that show unarmed civilians holding white flags being shot dead in Gaza. The Geneva-based Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor has said that they are investigating nine such incidents. CNN has examined four cases, including that of Hala Khreis.
One of three things happened in this killing:
1. An IDF soldier deliberately shot a grandmother carrying a white flag.
2. An IDF soldier was shooting at a military target in front of or behind the grandmother and she got shot in the process.
3. A Hamas fighter shot her for defeatism or to embarrass the Israelis.

1 and 3 are criminal. 2 is a sad reality of fighting amongst civilians.
If the answer is 1 or 3 , which side is more likely to apprehend and punish the perp?
 
Having served in the UN in Israel, I can tell you that the UN has three types of employees:
  • Military officers seconded from member states.
  • Internationally-hired civilians
  • Local hired civilians.

UNWRA has no military (it is a humanitarian organization) and has a reputation of hiring Palestinians to care for Palestinians. Even the international hires have a very pro-Palestinian slant.

One of the principles of UN peacekeeping is impartiality, but UNWRA is very slanted towards the Palestinians (UNWRA does nothing for Israeli victims of the conflict). I believe UNWRA should be disbanded or should leverage international civilians to a greater degree so they get some distance from one side in the conflict. UNWRA has no objectivity so it is not surprising to see UNWRA employees taking part in October 7 terrorism.
 
One of three things happened in this killing:
1. An IDF soldier deliberately shot a grandmother carrying a white flag.
2. An IDF soldier was shooting at a military target in front of or behind the grandmother and she got shot in the process.
3. A Hamas fighter shot her for defeatism or to embarrass the Israelis.

1 and 3 are criminal. 2 is a sad reality of fighting amongst civilians.
If the answer is 1 or 3 , which side is more likely to apprehend and punish the perp?

Since I'm not looking at this through the eyes of the dreaded tribalism, but through the eyes of a human (not implying anything about anyone besides myself), I only want for people to be safe.

Whoever is responsible, if this was deliberate, should be brought to justice.

But to answer your question, I have no more faith that Israel will bring a perpetrator to justice than I do that Hamas would.

And given that Israel should be above such behavior I find that disappointing.
 
Since I'm not looking at this through the eyes of the dreaded tribalism, but through the eyes of a human (not implying anything about anyone besides myself), I only want for people to be safe.

Whoever is responsible, if this was deliberate, should be brought to justice.

But to answer your question, I have no more faith that Israel will bring a perpetrator to justice than I do that Hamas would.

And given that Israel should be above such behavior I find that disappointing.
I want people to be safe as well. I also want Hamas to be eradicated. In fact, Just War Theory indicates that this is the ethical approach because not eradicating Hamas as a terrorist force means more innocent people will end up dead, or to state the reciprocal, fewer innocent people will die if Hamas is eradicated as a terrorist force. I do not know if Hamas will end up being a political entity in the future, but I doubt they can be reformed. They make Nazis look like gentlemen.

As for you believing Hamas is as likely as Israel to convict soldiers for violations of the law of armed conflict, that is a stunning admission, but is evidence of the success of Palestinians' information campaign of moral equivalency.
Two Israeli soldiers guilty of using human shield in Gaza
In this 2009 case, two Israeli soldiers force a Palestinian boy to check the contents of bags to see if they contained bombs. They did not contain explosives, and the kid was returned to his family unharmed. Even this level of violation was investigated and convictions secured.

When was the last time Hamas convicted one of its fighters of violations of the law of armed conflict?

Richard Gladstone investigated the 2008-9 Gaza War for the UN. He reported, “Israel has dedicated significant resources to investigate over 400 allegations of operational misconduct in Gaza [in the 2008-9 Gaza War]” while “the de facto authorities (i.e., Hamas) have not conducted any investigations into the launching of rocket and mortar attacks against Israel. ... That the crimes allegedly committed by Hamas were intentional goes without saying — its rockets were purposefully and indiscriminately aimed at civilian targets. ... While the investigations published by the Israeli military and recognized in the U.N. committee’s report have established the validity of some incidents that we investigated in cases involving individual soldiers, they also indicate that civilians were not intentionally targeted as a matter of [Israeli] policy. ... our main recommendation was for each party to investigate, transparently and in good faith, the incidents referred to in our report. McGowan Davis has found that Israel has done this to a significant degree; Hamas has done nothing." (From Richard Goldstone. "Reconsidering the Goldstone Report on Israel and war crimes," WaPo, April 1, 2010.
Investigating incidents in the current conflict is going to take time. Right now Israeli authorities are focused on defeating Hamas terrorists.

The assertion that Hamas is as likely as Israel to investigate violations of the law of armed conflict is simply ludicrous.
 
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Now I understand your position better.
You are saying that there is zero chance Hamas will prosecute violations of the law of armed conflict by Hamas fighters and you also have zero faith that Israel will bring perps to trial because Netanyahu is the prime minister of Israel.

Pardon me, but that is a silly position to take.

I just showed, from the most recent conflict that has happened long enough ago for investigations, trials and conviction (Gaza War 2008-9), that Israel did convict perps.
In the BBC news story I cited, the two Israeli soldiers were convicted of violations of the Law of Armed Conflict occurred in 2010. Who was Prime Minister of Israel in 2010? Netanyahu.

Try the decaf, man.
 
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Now I understand your position better.
You are saying that there is zero chance Hamas will prosecute violations of the law of armed conflict by Hamas fighters and you also have zero faith that Israel will bring perps to trial because Netanyahu is the prime minister of Israel.

Pardon me, but that is a silly position to take.

In the BBC news story I cited, the two Israeli soldiers were convicted of violations of the Law of Armed Conflict occurred in 2010. Who was Prime Minister of Israel in 2010? Netanyahu.

Try the decaf, man.

I hope I am proven to be wrong, but he has allowed it to continue.
 
FWIW, I was going to post the same opinion before I saw NT18's post.

The question should not be who would be more likely to prosecute: rather, how likely would either be to prosecute. After reading TW's second post, it's obvious Israel would be more likely to prosecute.

I was unaware that Hamas is worse than Nazis. I can't imagine how anyone could possibly be worse than the freaking Nazis, but I'm taking TW's word for it and am thankful for the information.

We all want Hamas destroyed, but the Israeli's are coming perilously close to being an evil entity themselves. I'm trying to give the Israeli's the benefit of the doubt, and realize the press will portray them in as poor a light as possible, but shooting grandmothers is beyond the pale.

Of the three options presented, I think the most likely is the grandmother was shot by an Israeli. If this is indeed the case, I seriously doubt that he/she will be prosecuted.
 
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