Indiana (Sign Stealing)

[4Q Basket Case]

On one hand, I think he will make the changes necessary to win in the SEC. He's won at every stop, at every level, and you can't do that without figuring out what works and implementing it.

On the other hand, I'm concerned that he won't make the philosophical adjustments necessary to win in the SEC. This is his offense. This is what he's developed over the years. He may believe he just needs better talent to make it work. And that might be the case. But I'm not sure he's going to make wholesale changes to his offense. Like Mike Leach who never gave up on his Air Raid offense, even though it never really worked against SEC-level talent.

Only time will tell.

I think DeBoer has gotten schooled in the importance of line play when you're facing top-tier talent and coaching every. Single. Stinkin'. Week. You can get away with less physical line play if you play only 2-3 strong teams in the regular season. It's an entirely different story in the SEC, especially now that it's a 9-game schedule.

To fix what we've seen the last couple of years, we'll need to tweak philosophy, develop talent and significantly improve S&C for the OL and DL. He's a smart guy, and I think he's seen what we all have. It may have surprised him, but he's recognized the issues and seems to be addressing them.

Philosophical tweaks are easiest.....if the coaches (DeBoer and Grubb) fully and sincerely buy in to a renewed emphasis on the run game. Which will depend on OL play that's something better than abysmal.

S&C can start showing improvement now, but that doesn't magically materialize in one off-season. It'll take a couple of years of gradual ramp-up before it fully matures. And that assumes it's already started, though I don't know if that's happened.

Similar on development of talent. We've had highly-ranked OL and DL recruiting classes for a while now. But we've all seen the deficiencies in on-field performance. Firing Kaplovic and replacing him with Klemm, and hiring new DL help from Oklahoma show that DeBoer is trying to fix the problem of not developing players. We won't know whether he's picked the right guys until around November 1.

 

[countrytider]

On one hand, I think he will make the changes necessary to win in the SEC. He's won at every stop, at every level, and you can't do that without figuring out what works and implementing it.

On the other hand, I'm concerned that he won't make the philosophical adjustments necessary to win in the SEC. This is his offense. This is what he's developed over the years. He may believe he just needs better talent to make it work. And that might be the case. But I'm not sure he's going to make wholesale changes to his offense. Like Mike Leach who never gave up on his Air Raid offense, even though it never really worked against SEC-level talent.

Only time will tell.

In Leach’s defense, he never had top tier talent top to bottom. IMO, his offense was able to punch above its weight talent-wise because of scheme and being well-coached.

 

[GboyBama]

I think DeBoer has gotten schooled in the importance of line play when you're facing top-tier talent and coaching every. Single. Stinkin'. Week. You can get away with less physical line play if you play only 2-3 strong teams in the regular season. It's an entirely different story in the SEC, especially now that it's a 9-game schedule.

...........

Similar on development of talent. We've had highly-ranked OL and DL recruiting classes for a while now. But we've all seen the deficiencies in on-field performance. Firing Kaplovic and replacing him with Klemm, and hiring new DL help from Oklahoma show that DeBoer is trying to fix the problem of not developing players. We won't know whether he's picked the right guys until around November 1.

I choose to believe that you're right, but there's also a nagging voice in the back of my head saying DeBoer is DeBoer. Hasn't he always had a reputation of winning games he's not supposed to win and losing inexplicably (though rarely)? Do we think he hasn't wanted to fix that over the years? Either that bad tendency is something he doesn't acknowledge or he's tried to fix it and failed. Neither possibility is optimal.

Also, if backfilling your philosophical weaknesses as a coach or staff was easy, everybody would do it. There wouldn't be any average coaches. Just waking up one day and saying you're going to change your stripes is a low percentage proposition in my experience.

Again, he's the man and my money is on him succeeding. What choice do we have anyway? If you're for Bama, you better be for DeBoer at this stage. The tea leaves are going to start to come into view this season though, for sure.

 

[BamaMoon]

I think these recent posts have been a fair discussion of CKD's offensive MO and what looks like some adjustments to it, which will need some time to verify.

The only other variable that hasn't been mentioned is that his offense needs an elite QB to work at the highest levels. I think this board (and almost every rational Bama fan) now understands Jalen Milroe was NOT that kind of QB. TS was closer to that guy when he wasn't hurt, but he had an OL that was about as effective as a screen door on a submarine! So now that it appears we may be on the verge of having an elite QB and an improved OL (fingers crossed) we'll come closer to finding out if CKD's system really will work when it has the right parts working together. And I'm not even including the possibility of a "better" running game, but I believe the right QB will and an improved OL will be essential to the running game improving as well.

I said all of that to say, I think this has been a "fair" discussion about CKD! There's a certain paid site that has a small to fair-sized group of posters who are determined he should have never been hired and will never work out, and they cannot even discuss the matter rationally! It's so bad that I've had to block a number of the posters who are like that because they clog up the whole discussion board. To compare it to this board, I've never blocked even one poster! So I think that says a lot about the way this board is run, thanks to its owner and admins!

 

[AlexanderFan]

I choose to believe that you're right, but there's also a nagging voice in the back of my head saying DeBoer is DeBoer. Hasn't he always had a reputation of winning games he's not supposed to win and losing inexplicably (though rarely)? Do we think he hasn't wanted to fix that over the years? Either that bad tendency is something he doesn't acknowledge or he's tried to fix it and failed. Neither possibility is optimal.

Also, if backfilling your philosophical weaknesses as a coach or staff was easy, everybody would do it. There wouldn't be any average coaches. Just waking up one day and saying you're going to change your stripes is a low percentage proposition in my experience.

Again, he's the man and my money is on him succeeding. What choice do we have anyway? If you're for Bama, you better be for DeBoer at this stage. The tea leaves are going to start to come into view this season though, for sure.

The guy’s issue is physicality, not scheme. His offense was doing well until it became obvious that the offensive line could be overwhelmed.

Let’s be honest: the last years of Saban were the same: successful, but still the same. No leaders, no toughness, no competitiveness, and no will to not lose.

I was obviously wrong about S&C being where this competitive fire is honed. I think a serious look needs to be made there. Also in recruiting profiles, to find line players that want to hurt someone over and over and over. On the football field.

If DeBoer can find that physicality he will flourish. If not, it might just go downhill.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I choose to believe that you're right, but there's also a nagging voice in the back of my head saying DeBoer is DeBoer. Hasn't he always had a reputation of winning games he's not supposed to win and losing inexplicably (though rarely)? Do we think he hasn't wanted to fix that over the years? Either that bad tendency is something he doesn't acknowledge or he's tried to fix it and failed. Neither possibility is optimal.

Also, if backfilling your philosophical weaknesses as a coach or staff was easy, everybody would do it. There wouldn't be any average coaches. Just waking up one day and saying you're going to change your stripes is a low percentage proposition in my experience.

Again, he's the man and my money is on him succeeding. What choice do we have anyway? If you're for Bama, you better be for DeBoer at this stage. The tea leaves are going to start to come into view this season though, for sure.

The fact that he made the number of changes he did almost immediately after the season points to some form of self awareness. Granted, it may not be to the level of completely scrapping his offensive philosophy and going old school two yards and a cloud of dust change. But a coach doesn't accidentally make the changes he made, as quick as he did after the season, and not realize why he made the changes.

 

[CrimsonBloodn62]

The guy’s issue is physicality, not scheme. His offense was doing well until it became obvious that the offensive line could be overwhelmed.

Let’s be honest: the last years of Saban were the same: successful, but still the same. No leaders, no toughness, no competitiveness, and no will to not lose.

I was obviously wrong about S&C being where this competitive fire is honed. I think a serious look needs to be made there. Also in recruiting profiles, to find line players that want to hurt someone over and over and over. On the football field.

If DeBoer can find that physicality he will flourish. If not, it might just go downhill.

Wasn't it shortly after Scott Cochran left the S&C program that Bama started having players with anxiety issues when they played tough opponents? The players started getting soft and haven't had the same toughness about them since he left.

 

[bamajas]

I choose to believe that you're right, but there's also a nagging voice in the back of my head saying DeBoer is DeBoer. Hasn't he always had a reputation of winning games he's not supposed to win and losing inexplicably (though rarely)? Do we think he hasn't wanted to fix that over the years? Either that bad tendency is something he doesn't acknowledge or he's tried to fix it and failed. Neither possibility is optimal.

Also, if backfilling your philosophical weaknesses as a coach or staff was easy, everybody would do it. There wouldn't be any average coaches. Just waking up one day and saying you're going to change your stripes is a low percentage proposition in my experience.

Again, he's the man and my money is on him succeeding. What choice do we have anyway? If you're for Bama, you better be for DeBoer at this stage. The tea leaves are going to start to come into view this season though, for sure.

Only once he got FBS jobs ... from what I can tell in retrospect, his Sioux Falls teams appeared dominant

Seems most likely that certain aspects of his skillset (offensive scheme, QB whisperer, relationship with players + admin) rocketed him up the ladder faster than he had time to fully learn/adapt to the weekly grind of elite-tier college football

So if your "always" can be established in two, 2-year tenures, maybe. This is his first FBS job to have a third season

 

[BamaMoon]

Only once he got FBS jobs ... from what I can tell in retrospect, his Sioux Falls teams appeared dominant

Seems most likely that certain aspects of his skillset (offensive scheme, QB whisperer, relationship with players + admin) rocketed him up the ladder faster than he had time to fully learn/adapt to the weekly grind of elite-tier college football

So if your "always" can be established in two, 2-year tenures, maybe. This is his first FBS job to have a third season

Good points. He's a smart guy. I really don't know who we could have hired at that time who might have been better!

There's also a historical pattern that most Bama coaches have a very good 3rd year! Hope that holds for him this year!!!

 

[AlexanderFan]

Wasn't it shortly after Scott Cochran left the S&C program that Bama started having players with anxiety issues when they played tough opponents? The players started getting soft and haven't had the same toughness about them since he left.

Could be. I wonder if there was more competition internally that would drive the guys to be stronger? Maybe it’s more of a business now, instead of a passion and desire to be the strongest.

Something changed, and it happened before DeBoer.

 

[GboyBama]

Could be. I wonder if there was more competition internally that would drive the guys to be stronger? Maybe it’s more of a business now, instead of a passion and desire to be the strongest.

Something changed, and it happened before DeBoer.

I can't disagree with this. Saban's iron will was propping up his last few teams IMO. The cracks were most definitely forming in the foundation well before the DeBoer regime.

I always think our inability to hire great assistant coaches had a lot to do with it. So many of our guys in those later years seemed like "let's take a flyer on the guy and see if he works out" level spitballing.