LSU's QB Jordan Jefferson and LB Josh Johns arrested and suspended indefinitely

[RollTide1224]

Re: Jordan Jefferson in serious barfight

I really hate it when "victims" lays on the ground and head butts a guys foot and tries to say he stomped on him.

This made me laugh out loud.

It's amazing the people that are defending the LSU players. Just because the dude has a prior arrest doesn't mean you can beat the crap out of him with impunity. Just because he threw the first punch doesnt mean you can kick him in the face when he is on the ground. The people defending the LSU players are quick to point out one of the victims flaws but neglect to point out that three other people were injured in the fight including the most severly injured. I guess those guys had prior public intoxs or something so they must have started it. The fact that the charges were brought in the first place tells you that they have some solid information on the two players who have been charged.

 

[crimsonaudio]

Re: Jordan Jefferson in serious barfight

It's amazing the people that are defending the LSU players.

To be fair, I think our LSU posters have been pretty steadfastly in the camp of 'let's wait and see what comes out in court' instead of just throwing the players under the bus on this one. Sure, they've been defensive, but at this point everything we know is simply hearsay.

The Duke lacrosse fiasco should have taught us all to slow down and let these stories develop fully before we decide did what...

 

[RollTide1224]

Re: Jordan Jefferson in serious barfight

To be fair, I think our LSU posters have been pretty steadfastly in the camp of 'let's wait and see what comes out in court' instead of just throwing the players under the bus on this one. Sure, they've been defensive, but at this point everything we know is simply hearsay.

The Duke lacrosse fiasco should have taught us all to slow down and let these stories develop fully before we decide did what...

I agree somewhat. But they seem pretty confident in knowing exactly what the one Marine guy did. I have no idea what happened all I know is that they were able to obtain a search warrant for Jefferson's apartment and then after that they were able to obtain arrest warrants for Jefferson and Johns. The cops have spoken to multiple LSU players and have not decided to pursue arrest warrants against any of the non football players. Without reading any media accounts of what happend, these occurences lead me to believe that one side of the story seems more credible than the other.

I know that they will get their day in court (assuming they even get past the grand jury) and that charges alone say nothing about their guilt or innocence, but attacking the guys who got the crap kicked out of them seems a little rash to me.

 

[Fishhead]

Re: Jordan Jefferson in serious barfight

Correct me if I am wrong.

Counterpoints:

The LSU players were at the same bar with that criminal at 1:30 AM after their curfew.
Their leader, the starting QB was allegedly kicking someone in the face while they were down on the ground.
The four 'victims' were extremely out numbered by at least 3 or 4-1 in the fight.
No LSU players were severely injured.
No LSU players were dragged from a vehicle.
None of the 'victims' were arrested or charged with a felony due to the fight.

Simple enough.

The LSU players were breaking curfew on the last day of fall camp just like EVERY LSU TEAM in the past 40 years. Get over the curfew...it's a non issue.

Allegedly. That's the point. Neither you nor I have a CLUE what happened.

Um, no. I have heard there were 4 victims, and there were 4 players questioned by police. 4 on 4 by my math.

I have no idea about LSU player injuries, nor do you. But yeah, I think we'd have heard about it if any were 'severely injured'.

I have no idea if anybody was 'dragged from a vehicle', nor do you.

As far I know, no 'victims' have been arrested. As far as you know, that may come next.

 

[Fishhead]

Re: Jordan Jefferson in serious barfight

It's amazing the people that are defending the LSU players.

Here's the deal. I'm not defending "the LSU players". I guarantee I know more about this situation than any other team's fans do, as does Red. But here's what you haven't heard me say or type. I never said 'the LSU players' are innocent. In fact, (you may want to sit down for this), I don't think they are innocent. BUT...I do think they got the wrong guy. And no, I'm not saying that because he's our QB. For heaven's sake, he threw 4 TDs in the reg season last year. It's not like Lee is a drop off. I think a different Tiger player is responsible, and he's a big name. I HOPE that IF I'm correct, it all comes out soon. If I'm wrong and JJ is the one responsible for kicking a guy on the ground, then I hope THAT is proven, and he never suits up for LSU again.

My issue is with the BRPD and media handling of this thing from the get go. They basically took drunk college kids testimony, not to mention that the testifiers are all buddies of the victims, and based their arrest on that. They were quick to report everything the victims and their buddies said as though it was fact, but up until about TWO DAYS AGO, they refused to talk about ANY opposing testimony, even though it's been available for over a week. And why even bring up the point that one of the victims is a Marine? They sensationalized it to the point that JJ was having his life threatened by alleged Marines and their parents, because these people from afar took it exactly how the media intended them to...that this guy was some war hero on leave from the war front or something. He isn't. He's never even served yet. I'm a veteran, and I thought it was ridiculous and totally unnecessary for that to be brought to the forefront, as if anyone knew he was a Marine. He wasn't acting like a Marine should act, and that's PROVEN on video. EVERY SINGLE STORY from the day after the fight has been either proven false, or proven EXTREMELY biased and sensationalized. Most of them have been proven outright false.

The very fact that they took DNA from JJ a week after the fight, and then did the same to Josh Johns another week later, shows they have no clue what they're doing, or that they have nothing. Why wait an extra week to take it from Johns, when both were arrested the same day?

In this country, last I checked, it's innocent until proven guilty. But with that said, I think you'd have to agree that...even if JJ is exonerated FULLY and FACTUALLY, his career is over, and his life is permanently scarred.

 

[Fishhead]

Re: Jordan Jefferson in serious barfight

To be fair, I think our LSU posters have been pretty steadfastly in the camp of 'let's wait and see what comes out in court' instead of just throwing the players under the bus on this one. Sure, they've been defensive, but at this point everything we know is simply hearsay.

The Duke lacrosse fiasco should have taught us all to slow down and let these stories develop fully before we decide did what...

Good post. The scary thing is we now have the very same AD that completely botched the Duke Lacrosse incident, resulting in defamation lawsuits (warranted) and the destruction of a proud program.

 

[crimsonaudio]

Re: Jordan Jefferson in serious barfight

Good post. The scary thing is we now have the very same AD that completely botched the Duke Lacrosse incident, resulting in defamation lawsuits (warranted) and the destruction of a proud program.

Holy crap, seriously? I had no idea. Ugh.

Anyway, keep your heads up and keep posting good stuff here. We get far better info from you guys than from the 'news' sources.

 

[Fishhead]

Re: Jordan Jefferson in serious barfight

Holy crap, seriously? I had no idea. Ugh.

Anyway, keep your heads up and keep posting good stuff here. We get far better info from you guys than from the 'news' sources.

Yep. None other than Joe Alleva himself. TN tried to take him from us, but someone at LSU made the decision to give him a raise so he'd stay. I would've helped him pack, and then apologized to TN later.

FWIW, so far he's staying out of it and letting Coach and others handle it.

 

[Fishhead]

Re: Jordan Jefferson in serious barfight

This made me laugh out loud.

It's amazing the people that are defending the LSU players. Just because the dude has a prior arrest doesn't mean you can beat the crap out of him with impunity. Just because he threw the first punch doesnt mean you can kick him in the face when he is on the ground. The people defending the LSU players are quick to point out one of the victims flaws but neglect to point out that three other people were injured in the fight including the most severly injured. I guess those guys had prior public intoxs or something so they must have started it. The fact that the charges were brought in the first place tells you that they have some solid information on the two players who have been charged.

First of all, for some reason, the Marine's name was released the very next day...while the other 'victims' names have yet to be released. So who knows what's on their records? Secondly, if you think the Marine's criminal record is 'public intox', think again.

 

[BamaFossil]

Re: Jordan Jefferson in serious barfight

Thanks Fishhead for all the input! I think most of us are surprised to learn your AD is the same Duke guy who botched Duke's handling of the lacrosse incident. Y'all need to hire a better executive search firm.

Hopefully LSU can overcome the off-field distractions long enough to take care of bidness tonight.

 

[Crimson Surfer]

Re: Jordan Jefferson in serious barfight

Simple enough.

The LSU players were breaking curfew on the last day of fall camp just like EVERY LSU TEAM in the past 40 years. Get over the curfew...it's a non issue.

Allegedly. That's the point. Neither you nor I have a CLUE what happened.

Um, no. I have heard there were 4 victims, and there were 4 players questioned by police. 4 on 4 by my math.

I have no idea about LSU player injuries, nor do you. But yeah, I think we'd have heard about it if any were 'severely injured'.

I have no idea if anybody was 'dragged from a vehicle', nor do you.

As far I know, no 'victims' have been arrested. As far as you know, that may come next.

First off, I am sad for LSU, the suspended players, and the folks who were severely injured in the bar fight. I will be pulling hard for LSU to beat Oregon tonight. Geaux Tigers!

I said correct me if I am wrong, not pass on the LSU spin and try to turn the situation into something that it is obvious not.

Counterpoint 1: The LSU players were at the same bar with that criminal at 1:30 AM after their curfew.
You: The LSU players were breaking curfew on the last day of fall camp just like EVERY LSU TEAM in the past 40 years. Get over the curfew...it's a non issue.
Reply: I didn't know it was an LSU curfew that was not actually a non issue curfew because of LSU tradition. Who knew? It was reported in the media that the LSU players were at the bar after an LSU curfew. I was wondering why all the LSU players that were reportedly at or involved in the bar fight were not suspended. You would think that at least Chris Davenport and Jarvis Landry who were questioned by police as being involved in the fight might have been suspended.

Counterpoint 2: Their leader, the starting QB was allegedly kicking someone in the face while they were down on the ground.
You: Allegedly. That's the point. Neither you nor I have a CLUE what happened.
Reply: I have read the numerous public accounts in the media which were filled with clues. The BRPD obviously has many solid clues and evidence about what happened, if not I highly doubt there would have been any arrests. JJ and JJ were arrested and charged with felony battery. Those are facts which are widely known. As for JJ and JJ 'allegedly' kicking the 'victim' in the face, that was widely reported as a statement to the BRPD by the 'victim' and at least one of the witness's. That witness's statement was reported publically in the media. Another clue that I have is that the BRPD reportedly searched JJ's room and entered 40 something pairs of his athletic shoes into evidence. That gives me a clue that someone was kicked, unless one of the shoes was thrown Iraqi stayle at the 'victim' who has a facial fracture, broken teeth, and a concussion and the other 'victim' that has fractured vertebrae, broken teeth and a concussion.

Counterpoint 3: The four 'victims' were extremely out numbered by at least 3 or 4-1 in the fight.
You: Um, no. I have heard there were 4 victims, and there were 4 players questioned by police. 4 on 4 by my math.
Reply: What is it? You said that neither you nor I have a CLUE what happened, yet somehow you have the fight participant math figured out. lol I got my LSU player numbers from numerous public reports in the media. The BRPD publically said that they have interviewed an undisclosed number of players, but have not discussed what was said. The 'victims' lawyer said that he expects more arrests before this is all said and done with.

Counterpoint 4: No LSU players were severely injured.
You: I have no idea about LSU player injuries, nor do you. But yeah, I think we'd have heard about it if any were 'severely injured'.
Reply: I should have said 'reportedly severely injured.' I have a pretty good idea that no LSU players were severely injured because of the fact that there were no witness statements about LSU players being injured or any mentions of that in the BRPD reports or the media.

Counterpoint 5: No LSU players were dragged from a vehicle.
I have no idea if anybody was 'dragged from a vehicle', nor do you.
Reply: There have been numerous reports of a driver of a truck being dragged from his truck and severely beaten by LSU players. According to Bienvenu, the 'victims' lawyer "that man had pulled up to the edge of the fight in a pickup truck in order to retrieve a friend who was at the bar and was pulled from his vehicle and severely beaten after honking his horn at people blocking the way."

Counterpoint 6: None of the 'victims' were arrested or charged with a felony due to the fight.
As far I know, no 'victims' have been arrested. As far as you know, that may come next.
Reply: No 'victims' have been arrested. We know that for a fact. I am pretty sure if any of the 'victims' were going to be arrested we would at least know that is being looked at as a possibility. After all this is the BRPD we are talking about. Other than LSU players, they are known to arrest first and ask questions later.

Good luck to all concerned in this sad situation.

http://www.nola.com/lsu/index.ssf/2011/08/lsu_tigers_jefferson_johns_sus.html

This story was linked earlier in this thread. I suggest that you carefully read the link. It has some pertinent clues.

 

[red55]

Re: Jordan Jefferson in serious barfight

I have read the numerous public accounts in the media which were filled with clues.

As for JJ and JJ 'allegedly' kicking the 'victim' in the face, that was widely reported as a statement to the BRPD by the 'victim' and at least one of the witness's. That witness's statement was reported publically in the media.

The 'victims' lawyer said that he expects more arrests before this is all said and done with.

I should have said 'reportedly severely injured.'

There have been numerous reports of a driver of a truck being dragged from his truck and severely beaten by LSU players.

I have to agree with Fish, Surfer. The alleged victims's attorney is trying this case in the media and you seem to have convicted him on that. Every one of the "reports" that you give credence to are based on statements to the media or to the police by friends of the alleged victims.

None of the LSU players has yet been allowed to tell their side of it by the lawyers. Multiple independent third-party witnesses contradict much of what has been alleged. The BRPD had enough statements to file charges, it doesn't mean that they will stick when all these witnesses have to testify under oath and risk perjury charges. Some of them are obviously lying, but the truth will come out. One video shows Jefferson in a white shirt inside the bar while another shows "a man in black" ("victim's" description) kicking someone on the ground.

Jeffersons attorney is going to try this case in court and he's going to have depositions and sworn testimony from dozens of witnesses. We will find out if there is any actual physical evidence against him. The fact that there was a search means nothing except that the BRPD was dotting the i's and crossing the t's. The "shoe" evidence could clear Jefferson as easily as convict him.

As was pointed out by Audio, remember how bad the Duke LaCross team looked based on a victim's statement alone. But when all the facts came out, a lot of people had to back off of the rush to judgement.

I'm not defending Jefferson. If he did those things, he will be punished and rightfully so. But he's only been accused so far, not convicted . . . except by the media.

 

[Crimson Surfer]

Re: Jordan Jefferson in serious barfight

I have to agree with Fish, Surfer. The alleged victims's attorney is trying this case in the media and you seem to have convicted him on that. Every one of the "reports" that you give credence to are based on statements to the media or to the police by friends of the alleged victims.

None of the LSU players has yet been allowed to tell their side of it by the lawyers. Multiple independent third-party witnesses contradict much of what has been alleged. The BRPD had enough statements to file charges, it doesn't mean that they will stick when all these witnesses have to testify under oath and risk perjury charges. Some of them are obviously lying, but the truth will come out. One video shows Jefferson in a white shirt inside the bar while another shows "a man in black" ("victim's" description) kicking someone on the ground.

Jeffersons attorney is going to try this case in court and he's going to have depositions and sworn testimony from dozens of witnesses. We will find out if there is any actual physical evidence against him. The fact that there was a search means nothing except that the BRPD was dotting the i's and crossing the t's. The "shoe" evidence could clear Jefferson as easily as convict him.

As was pointed out by Audio, remember how bad the Duke LaCross team looked based on a victim's statement alone. But when all the facts came out, a lot of people had to back off of the rush to judgement.

I'm not defending Jefferson. If he did those things, he will be punished and rightfully so. But he's only been accused so far, not convicted . . . except by the media.

Well no matter how you look at this situation, it is very sad for all involved. I personally have not convicted anyone of anything. I was just passing on what I have read and heard about the situation. I expect you LSU fans to stick together on this but I would'nt assume anything about this brawl.

Good luck tonight. Whip them Ducks for the SEC.

 

[RollTide1224]

Re: Jordan Jefferson in serious barfight

First of all, for some reason, the Marine's name was released the very next day...while the other 'victims' names have yet to be released. So who knows what's on their records? Secondly, if you think the Marine's criminal record is 'public intox', think again.

My point is the fact that you have previously commited a crime doesn't mean that in all future instances you should be suspect. Furthermore you are certainly entitled to not have the crap beaten out of you even if you have previously commited worse crims than the victim did.

On Red's point you don't take depositions in criminal cases. Everyone will get a chance to tell their story. Just because you are the friend of the victim doesn't mean what you are saying is not true. If someone comes into my house and kills my roomate and I testify about it doesn't mean I am lying. The truth will hopefully come out, but if the facts were as disputed as seems to be implied I doubt charges or a search warrant would have been issued in the first place.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Re: Jordan Jefferson in serious barfight

Guys, this is going nowhere, and it's not really football, anyway. I was going to transfer it to NS, but I think I'll just close it...