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Megachurch pastor admits to molesting underage girl

Bamabuzzard

Bamabuzzard

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Jon said:
jesus himself seemed to know

oddly this simple claim gets glossed over by most Christians or explained away with a really, really old Jewish guy still wandering around somewhere

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Matthew 16:28 - Take Up Your Cross

Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.
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I've done several studies on this and there are people who have forgotten more about the Bible than I know (scholars), who believe he was talking about the transfiguration which happened right after Matthew 16:28. He didn't say "everybody" but "some standing here" which ended up being several of the disciples who witnessed the transfiguration. So in other words, Jesus wasn't talking about His final return in Matthew 16:28.
 
Jon

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Bamabuzzard said:
I've done several studies on this and there are people who have forgotten more about the Bible than I know (scholars), who believe he was talking about the transfiguration which happened right after Matthew 16:28. He didn't say "everybody" but "some standing here" which ended up being several of the disciples who witnessed the transfiguration. So in other words, Jesus wasn't talking about His final return in Matthew 16:28.
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I know he didn't say "everyone" that is why there aren't several wandering jews https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wandering_Jew
 
Jon

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Bamabuzzard said:
The point is when you put the beginning of chapter 17 with the latter part of chapter 16 you know he's talking about the transfiguration, not His final return or "The Rapture". So I don't see the problem.
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but none of them died in the 6 days from then to the transfiguration. Why would he state that "some of them would not taste death" wouldn't it be more like "Ill be back in 6 days and all y'all will still be alive?"
 
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Jon said:
but none of them died in the 6 days from then to the transfiguration. Why would he state that "some of them would not taste death" wouldn't it be more like "Ill be back in 6 days and all y'all will still be alive?"
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He never said they wouldn't taste death. He said they wouldn't taste death until they saw His kingdom coming. The transfiguation was an example of the "kingdom coming". This below phrase and different forms of this phrase was used by Jesus throughout his ministry. They didn't always mean the exact same thing. You had/have to put into context of who, when and where he used the term. When Jesus started his ministry he told many the kingdom of God is already here. He was referring to himself, or the "coming of the Son of Man" and yet he told them "I am He". Meaning I am the one you read about, I am the Messiah and I am already here.

That is why context and learning how the hebrews wrote and spoke is very important. That is why I tell people all the time (because it was told to me) to read a cultural studies book or take a cultural studies class on the times Jesus lived before trying to make too many claims about the Bible.


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gtowntide said:
My take on these pedophiles is that they cannot be rehabilitated. They should never be around children or in a position of authority. This should be painted with a broad brush because it is everywhere.
There are reasons that victims do not come forward. Church leaders have looked the other way too long, unfortunately I don’t see that changing.
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When the church is a good-ole-boy's club (which most are), they are largely going to protect their church/power structure, protect their buddies, and they will have no incentive to work hard to prosecute themselves as long as the gravy train keeps on working.
 
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TIDE-HSV

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Bamabuzzard said:
He never said they wouldn't taste death. He said they wouldn't taste death until they saw His kingdom coming. The transfiguation was an example of the "kingdom coming". This below phrase and different forms of this phrase was used by Jesus throughout his ministry. They didn't always mean the exact same thing. You had/have to put into context of who, when and where he used the term. When Jesus started his ministry he told many the kingdom of God is already here. He was referring to himself, or the "coming of the Son of Man" and yet he told them "I am He". Meaning I am the one you read about, I am the Messiah and I am already here.

That is why context and learning how the hebrews wrote and spoke is very important. That is why I tell people all the time (because it was told to me) to read a cultural studies book or take a cultural studies class on the times Jesus lived before trying to make too many claims about the Bible.


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There are even worse examples. For example, Jesus' three questions to Peter. In English, only "love" is the translation, whereas, Greek has several words for "love," but only two come into play in Jesus' question "Do you love me." The first two times, Jesus uses "agape," which has the connotation of unconditional. Peter answers three times with "phileo," which can best be described as "brotherly love." Now there have literally been books written about what Jesus' intention was and Peter's seeming lack of commitment. I don't want to get into that. I'm just pointing up the difficulty in maintaining the position that every word is to be taken literally when the language barrier stands in the way...
 
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TIDE-HSV said:
There are even worse examples. For example, Jesus' three questions to Peter. In English, only "love" is the translation, whereas, Greek has several words for "love," but only two come into play in Jesus' question "Do you love me." The first two times, Jesus uses "agape," which has the connotation of unconditional. Peter answers three times with "phileo," which can best be described as "brotherly love." Now there have literally been books written about what Jesus' intention was and Peter's seeming lack of commitment. I don't want to get into that. I'm just pointing up the difficulty in maintaining the position that every word is to be taken literally when the language barrier stands in the way...
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Jesus also wasn't dumb and their culture wasn't without cultural nuances. Jesus used "play on words" in some of his sayings yet you've got people who read his words and act like he was a robot spitting out sentences.

"If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out..." - Does anyone really believe Jesus meant to pluckout your eyes?

"It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but the sinners"- There were no righteous, all of them (and us) were sinners and all of them needed the Gospel aka Jesus. Again, it was a play on words with the audience he was addressing.

Idioms are also present throughout the Bible that were used in that culture. Not to mention the Hebrews use of poetry in their writings. When I started reading about the culture and times of Jesus and how the Hebrews and Greeks wrote, it brought so much depth and "flavor" to how I originally understood the Bible.

Another example of why people need to do more than just read at face value. This word desire in Genesis three is not a very good word we use to translate the original Hebrew word and its meaning. The original hebrew word actually means to "to usurp" or "to dominate". The average reader would read that word "desire" as if it is saying the woman wants to be with her husband. But that is not what it means. It means woman will try to usurp the role of the husband God has given the man but he ultimately will rule over her. Hence, the marriage curse. Husbands, now you know why your wife tries to run everything. LOL! ;)

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TIDE-HSV

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Bamabuzzard said:
Jesus also wasn't dumb and their culture wasn't without cultural nuances. Jesus used "play on words" in some of his sayings yet you've got people who read his words and act like he was a robot spitting out sentences.

"If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out..." - Does anyone really believe Jesus meant to pluckout your eyes?

"It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but the sinners"- There were no righteous, all of them (and us) were sinners and all of them needed the Gospel aka Jesus. Again, it was a play on words with the audience he was addressing.

Idioms are also present throughout the Bible that were used in that culture. Not to mention the Hebrews use of poetry in their writings. When I started reading about the culture and times of Jesus and how the Hebrews and Greeks wrote, it brought so much depth and "flavor" to how I originally understood the Bible.

Another example of why people need to do more than just read at face value. This word desire in Genesis three is not a very good word we use to translate the original Hebrew word and its meaning. The original hebrew word actually means to "to usurp" or "to dominate". The average reader would read that word "desire" as if it is saying the woman wants to be with her husband. But that is not what it means. It means woman will try to usurp the role of the husband God has given the man but he ultimately will rule over her. Hence, the marriage curse. Husbands, now you know why your wife tries to run everything. LOL! ;)

View attachment 43220
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Take that stuff literally enough, you end up with earlocks like a Lubavitcher... :)
 
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Here's been the problem of Evangelical churches for years.
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PurityTalk on Instagram: "What is the greatest threat to the Church in our generation? Paul Washer says it’s the pastors - pastors who are non-existent, unbiblical/unqualified, or unconverted. Pastors and elders are responsible to lead and shepherd the flock of God. If a church is liberal or teaching false doctrine, it’s most likely because of the failures of church leaders. Perhaps some people may say it’s the church that elect their own leaders so the whole church is to blame. That is true. The whole church is responsible to elect elders and keep them accountable. Nevertheless, an unhealthy church is usually a sign that it has unhealthy leadership. #paulwasher #paulwasherquotes #reformed #reformedtheology #sounddoctrine #biblical #biblicaltruth #biblicaltheology #pastors #christianleadership #christianleaders #biblestudy #christianquotes #christianposts"

36K likes, 899 comments - puritytalk on April 12, 2024: "What is the greatest threat to the Church in our generation? Paul Washer says it’s the pastors - pastors who are non-existent, unbiblical/unqualified, or unconverted. Pastors and elders are responsible to lead and shepherd the flock of...
www.instagram.com www.instagram.com
 
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Lawyer for megachurch pastor blamed 12-year-old for initiating ‘inappropriate’ sexual conduct

Letters sent in 2007 by a lawyer for Robert Morris shed light on how the pastor explained his past sexual behavior with a child — and who else might have known about it.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com

Clemishire said Morris told her to come see him in his room before bed, and she was the type of girl who listened to instructions from trusted adults.

But 25 years later, when Clemishire hired an attorney and threatened to sue Morris, accusing him of repeatedly molesting her as a child, a lawyer representing Morris responded by blaming Clemishire for what happened to her, according to 2007 correspondence obtained by NBC News.

“It was your client,” wrote lawyer J. Shelby Sharpe, referring to Clemishire at age 12, “who initiated inappropriate behavior by coming into my client’s bedroom and getting in bed with him, which my client should not have allowed to happen.”
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TIDE-HSV said:
There are even worse examples. For example, Jesus' three questions to Peter. In English, only "love" is the translation, whereas, Greek has several words for "love," but only two come into play in Jesus' question "Do you love me." The first two times, Jesus uses "agape," which has the connotation of unconditional. Peter answers three times with "phileo," which can best be described as "brotherly love." Now there have literally been books written about what Jesus' intention was and Peter's seeming lack of commitment. I don't want to get into that. I'm just pointing up the difficulty in maintaining the position that every word is to be taken literally when the language barrier stands in the way...
Click to expand...
And you are quite correct...I believe Jesus' use of phileo at the last asks Peter if he is even sure of that level of love. Who knows? All we have are copies of manuscripts at best...thanks for sharing some good info on textual matters.
 
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