Link: Official PSU Scandal Thread

Re: PSU Coach Joe Paterno says that he has decided to retire at the end of the season

Unfortunately, the PA act says the person required to report has met his/her obligation when they report it to the head of the institution.
Thanks for the input. That clears Paterno from the legal part, if not the moral...
 
Re: PSU Coach Joe Paterno says that he has decided to retire at the end of the season

OK, I read it. It all depends on who you believe. If the grand jury was correct that Curley and Schultz were lying, then yes, Paterno is a scumbag. If all the GA reported was "horsing around," then he is not. Somebody is a bad guy here. Either the GA didn't tell everything he knew initially to Paterno, or the university covered it up willfully.

Dude, you are still trying to whitewash over this. Really, "horsing around"??? The report indicates that Paterno went to Curley and Schultz and told them Sandusky was seen in the "showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy." I'm sure Paterno probably did exactly what you are doing and tried to down play it. This was in 2002, AFTER Sandusky had already had a complaint filed against him in 1998 for a similar incident in the showers. Do you really think they all didn't know about the first complaint??

Not doing anything allowed this guy to terrorize multiple kids. Sandusky was on the Penn State campus last week using their facilities. They are ALL bad guys here. Winning football games does NOT get you a pass on this one!
 
Re: PSU Coach Joe Paterno says that he has decided to retire at the end of the season

Yeah, that sounds pretty bad. A couple thoughts. First, it doesn't sound like the report was quite as clear cut as some have made it out to be. The GA didn't say, "I saw Coach Sandusky having sex with a ten year old." It sounds like he told him that he saw something that he shouldn't have, that something bad was going down. Perhaps Paterno reported it to the AD and they came back and told him later there was nothing to it.

I'm really not trying to defend Paterno, but I imagine when this GA showed up, he told a story that was confused, that was somewhat disjointed. He was upset after all. This story was about a friend of Paterno's for 30 years. I am trying to think what I would do if someone told me that they saw my best friend possibly molesting a young boy. I can tell you this though -- I would not immediately go to the police. I would have to do some investigation on my own before I made what I believe to be the worst accusation you could make. Like I said earlier, I have to know more before I can pass judgment here. I want a detailed account of what went down. I assume the grand jury testimony is sealed here. So we know the overall picture, but not the detailed one.

The problem, BinB, is that when you look at the timeline of events surrounding this scandal, it becomes clear that 2002 was not the first time Paterno had been made aware of this.

Consider this . . .

1993 - 1998: After joining the Big Ten, Penn State begins a 7 year run of dominance in which they go 60-16, including an 8-3 record in bowl games and a co-national championship. What leads to their resurgence? In part it's the outstanding play of their defense, led by defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky, Joe Pa's right hand man since 1977 and the heir apparent to the Penn State thrown. Under the exceptional play of Sandusky's linebackers, Penn State is branded "Linebacker U."

1998: Sandusky is investigated for sexually molesting a young boy in the Penn State shower room. Although the DA gets Sandusky's confession to the boy's mother on tape ("I was wrong for what I did to your son. I wish I was dead.") he elects not to prosecute. Why not? Maybe it's because . . .

1999: Sandusky announces his retirement from Penn State.

So, am I supposed to believe that Joe Pa's best friend, heir apparent to his throne, and defensive coordinator for 20 years abruptly retired without Joe Pa knowing why? No effing way, my friend. Joe Pa was God in that town. He knew everything. From what I understand, when a player got in trouble, one copy of the police report was filed and the other went immediately to Paterno's doorstep. There is no conceivable way that Paterno did not know what was behind Jerry Sandusky's retirement.

Which makes the 2002 that much uglier, in my opinion. Just think if you're Paterno. You lost your defensive coordinator 4 years ago because he allegedly molested a young boy and now a graduate assistant shows up at your home and tells you that he just saw that same ex-coordinator in the shower, pinning a 10 year old boy against the wall and anally raping him.

At this point, even if you gave Sandusky the benefit of the doubt in 1998, you have to realize that something terrible is happening. And you have to act accordingly.
 
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Re: PSU Coach Joe Paterno says that he has decided to retire at the end of the season

LThe GA, in his testimony, said that he saw Sandusky raping the boy. Paterno, in his testimony, said that he was seen "showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy."
And just because the two stories don't jibe 100% you feel that this is OK? A 60 year old man in the shower with a 10 year old boy "fondling or doing something of a sexual nature" isn't enough to stop the train and find out EXACTLY what's going on?

I know attorneys look for technicalities and such, but even if 'all' that happened was what Paterno reported, that's way more than enough to ensure the dirtbag is never allowed to even look towards campus again, much less set foot on it. This is what Paterno DID NOT do and why we're all ready for his termination.
 
Re: PSU Coach Joe Paterno says that he has decided to retire at the end of the season

Yes, that's exactly what I am saying. I believe those were my exact words.
Yah, yah, you know what I meant.

You're suggesting we're a "lynch mob" because all we know is that Paterno didn't pursue the issue when he was told that Sandusky was naked in the shower doing something sexual with a young boy.

Not sure where you draw the line.
 
Re: PSU Coach Joe Paterno says that he has decided to retire at the end of the season

Look, I am not saying that Joe Paterno should get a free pass because he won football games, and I don't appreciate you trying to smear me that way. I am merely saying that it is possible that Joe Paterno is not a monster. The GA, in his testimony, said that he saw Sandusky raping the boy. Paterno, in his testimony, said that he was seen "showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy." The other two, in their testimony, said that he was accused of "horsing around" and that, at the time, they didn't think it was that serious. Now, what Paterno said doesn't fit with the first part. It fits with what the other officials said. Maybe the other officials were lying. Maybe Joe Paterno was trying to downplay it. Maybe, at the time, the GA couldn't bring himself to tell them what really happened, reported a white washed version, and then under oath and subject to perjury, told the truth. I simply have no idea. It is certainly possible that Penn St. engaged in a massive cover up. If that's true, they should burn the place down and sow the earth with salt. Happy?

My apologies BinB, I'm really not trying to smear you. I actually enjoy reading most of your contributions to the board.

But if you ever watched the movie A Few Good Men, it's like the end of the movie where the marine figures out that he's getting kicked out for not defending people that need the defense of the strong. We, as adults, are all charged with defending children. And I think Paterno failed; and it makes me sad. I held him in the highest regard. I thought he provided leadership and morals to his school and his players. I thought he had integrity. And he did display those characteristics in a lot of areas, but to fail when it comes to children... I really can't think of anything more reprehensible. One deviant monster committed and at least 4 adult men (leaders by most standards) allowed heinous acts on at least 9 children over years. Can you imagine the look on the poor kid in the shower as the GA walked away and left him with that monster?

A lynch mob would be too good for Sandusky, and the other are getting the public flaying they deserve. Penn State is an institution run by men. The men failed. They should be replaced and integrity should be restored to the institution.

On a side note, I was in Pittsburgh Sunday and Monday, and had lunch with a Penn State grad. He was in shock. I hate this for the Penn State community. I hate it more for those kids.
 
Re: PSU Coach Joe Paterno says that he has decided to retire at the end of the season

The thing in all of this that I find so disturbing is how anyone could witness something this horrible and not defend this child. Do I understand correctly that the GA didn't even make Sandusky aware he saw what he was doing? He just left him with the child?
 
Re: PSU Coach Joe Paterno says that he has decided to retire at the end of the season

The thing in all of this that I find so disturbing is how anyone could witness something this horrible and not defend this child. Do I understand correctly that the GA didn't even make Sandusky aware he saw what he was doing? He just left him with the child?
That appears to be the case...
 
Re: PSU Coach Joe Paterno says that he has decided to retire at the end of the season

All I'm saying is I can imagine a scenario, a plausible one, where the GA doesn't say that he saw Sandusky having sex with the kid. If he said those words, then this is all out the window. In the grand jury report, if you read what Curley and Shultz said, you can see how it might not have appeared as serious at the time. If what they said was true, it's a much closer question about whether you want to get the police involved. Now, the grand jury found them not credible, and they may very well have perjured themselves.

The thing is, this does not appear to be a case where Paterno whitewashed the story to Curley and Shultz. They met with the GA and discussed the incident independently. Now, say it was one of your best friends of 40 years. Maybe you even have suspicions about him not being on the up and up. You report this incident, and a week later Curley and Shultz call you, tell you that they investigated it and found no wrongdoing. That it was a misunderstanding, just some horsing around that looked bad, or whatever. Are you really going to call the police and tell them that your friend is a child molester, based on that?

Like I have been saying, I am perfectly willing to accept that Paterno is an evil, child molesting, NAMBLA apologist. But the rush to judgment, fire him tomorrow, he should never coach again, tear down his statue and take his name off the Big 10 trophy idea is not one I can get behind just yet.

So because instead of saying that he saw them have sex and instead said "fondling or doing something of a sexual nature" that means it shouldn't be take as seriously. Clearly Paterno got the message from the grad assistant. Maybe he was too old school to say he was raping the kid and put it more delicately but how does what he told the higher ups indicate in anyway that he didn't know serious stuff was going on? And then didn't follow through and make sure that the proper thing was done.
 
Re: PSU Coach Joe Paterno says that he has decided to retire at the end of the season

All I'm saying is I can imagine a scenario, a plausible one, where the GA doesn't say that he saw Sandusky having sex with the kid. If he said those words, then this is all out the window. In the grand jury report, if you read what Curley and Shultz said, you can see how it might not have appeared as serious at the time. If what they said was true, it's a much closer question about whether you want to get the police involved. Now, the grand jury found them not credible, and they may very well have perjured themselves.

The thing is, this does not appear to be a case where Paterno whitewashed the story to Curley and Shultz. They met with the GA and discussed the incident independently. Now, say it was one of your best friends of 40 years. Maybe you even have suspicions about him not being on the up and up. You report this incident, and a week later Curley and Shultz call you, tell you that they investigated it and found no wrongdoing. That it was a misunderstanding, just some horsing around that looked bad, or whatever. Are you really going to call the police and tell them that your friend is a child molester, based on that?

Like I have been saying, I am perfectly willing to accept that Paterno is an evil, child molesting, NAMBLA apologist. But the rush to judgment, fire him tomorrow, he should never coach again, tear down his statue and take his name off the Big 10 trophy idea is not one I can get behind just yet.

Just like after Paterno learning of at least two incidents involving Sandusky "showering, fondling, and doing something of a sexual nature with young boys," he wasn't ready to get behind the idea that his friend had a problem and he might need to step in and do something about it?
 
Re: PSU Coach Joe Paterno says that he has decided to retire at the end of the season

Yah, yah, you know what I meant.

You're suggesting we're a "lynch mob" because all we know is that Paterno didn't pursue the issue when he was told that Sandusky was naked in the shower doing something sexual with a young boy.

Not sure where you draw the line.
Legal eagles, bro. Legal eagles.
 
Re: PSU Coach Joe Paterno says that he has decided to retire at the end of the season

All I'm saying is I can imagine a scenario, a plausible one, where the GA doesn't say that he saw Sandusky having sex with the kid. If he said those words, then this is all out the window.QUOTE]

The problem with this, to me, is that considering the position that Paterno is in at that school, it is his responsibility to find out EXACTLY what happened when this is brought before him. Then it is his responsibility to make sure his (so-called) superiors are aware of every last detail as well. Then it is his responsibility to make sure it is reported to the appropriate authorities. He clearly did not do any of that.

As an adult now, having lived through being molested on multiple occasions between the ages of 8-10, based only on what I've heard and read that has come out of Paterno's own mouth, I am convinced that he did not do enough to #1 bring Sandusky to justice and #2 keep this from happening again under his watch and on the property of the school. The grand jury report is clear that these boys were around the program all the time. Someone was looking the other way or was playing like they were extremely naive. Having lived with the past that I have, that angers me to no end.

The real fact of the matter is, though, that all of the men that had any amount of knowledge of this incident and did not report it are in the wrong. Had only 1 of them, Paterno included, chosen to do the right thing and really investigate this event and made sure it was handled properly and reported properly, they wouldn't be in the position that they are in today...nor would the school.

And just to put it bluntly, I have no concern for Penn State, Joe Paterno, or any of the other coaches regarding this matter...All concern should be placed towards the victims of this monster's horrible acts. They will live with this the rest of their lives.
 
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Re: PSU Coach Joe Paterno says that he has decided to retire at the end of the season

In my opinion, a naked adult in the "showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy" is a crime, not "horsing around." This has become ridiculous...
 
Re: PSU Coach Joe Paterno says that he has decided to retire at the end of the season

I think it's pretty clear here that McQueary was likely both blackmailed and bribed to keep silent.

Blackmail: "Well...you SAW it and just walked away without interrupting it. You're complicit too, and your complicity will come out when this thing goes into the legal system."

Bribe: "How's a promotion sound?"

We know the latter happened...I don't think we'll ever know the intention behind his promotion, but at this point I don't think it matters.
 
Re: PSU Coach Joe Paterno says that he has decided to retire at the end of the season

According to the Grand Jury report, both the boy and Sandusky saw him. It doesn't really say how it all went down in detail.

BinB, did you see my post? Do you think there's any way JoePa didn't already know about the 1998 incident?
 
Re: PSU Coach Joe Paterno says that he has decided to retire at the end of the season

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefoo...n-as-Penn-State-head-coach-immediately-110911

He makes a solid point about when, at a minimum, things were known:
Football has been put in its proper place, set into proper context by allegations that a man you gave access to your football program reportedly as late as last week — the man whose allegations of sex abuse drew you to testify to a grand jury 11 months ago — allegedly abused at least eight kids over a 15-year span.
 
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