QB Competition 2018

[runtheoption22]

One thing I keep hearing over and over is that we need to call short, quick passes - slants, hooks, crossing patterns, etc. In two years with two OC’s, JH has not been asked to do this consistently. It seems to the consensus that this is due to the OC philosophy. Has it occurred to us that the reason may be JH does not do this well - and if we make these calls his performance gets worse?

I’ve played QB and coached QB’s on the HS level and essential to making these short, quick passes are two things. First, an ability to get the ball out quickly and decisively into a small window before it closes. Second, an ability to use your eyes to prevent defenders from jumping the routes (most picks end up going for TD’s).

From what we’ve seen of JH, does this sound like his strong suits?

People keep bringing up the MSU game and the final drive.....and how that ball to Devonta was a 'strike'.

It really wasn't. If that DB was locked on, that's a deflection. Even the big gainer to Ridley was tentative and low on a similar route.

It's obviously not Hurts strong suit.

 

[B1GTide]

People keep bringing up the MSU game and the final drive.....and how that ball to Devonta was a 'strike'.

It really wasn't. If that DB was locked on, that's a deflection. Even the big gainer to Ridley was tentative and low on a similar route.

It's obviously not Hurts strong suit.

It may not be his forte, but he can complete those passes. And the reality is simple - if he doesn't against Clemson, you guys are going to lose. I think that you are going to make changes to your offensive game plan for that game out of necessity, and you will win. But if you do not change your play calling, you will be lucky to score 21 points.

 

[RWTT11]

Glad your not coaching against Clemson!

What if one of our dbs or guards is getting abused in a game??? You wouldn't sub him IF you had a trustworthy backup? If for nothing else, just to give him a series or two off to calm down?

I would however, have a few series of plays designated for Tua if Jalen is unable to keep the offense on the field. This will at least throw Clemson off and possibly allow a spark to get things rolling.


I know the qb position is different and I'd argue the most important position on the field (check the length of this thread), but if the scenario described earlier were to occur and we find ourselves in a big hole early due to not being able to move the ball, you've got to give Tua an opportunity.

We are talking about an opportunity to win a NC...I JH struggles I just don't think you say, "Well, we'll just wait to next year."

Thank you for making my point!

 

[BamaMoon]

Thank you for making my point!

You said "I would not replace Jalen at all." But then you say you would be in favor of giving Tua a series or two, but then you say "we win or lose with the QB that has gotten us this far."

So if you were to sub for Tua and he gives us a spark you would still go back to Jalen???

This is how I read your other post (and I failed to see the part about trying Tua for a series or two) but your first and last statements sound like if Jalen can't do it we ride him down like the band on the Titantic.

If you say you'd stick with Tua if he gave us a spark, I apologize for misreading your other post.

 

[Tideflyer]

It may not be his forte, but he can complete those passes. And the reality is simple - if he doesn't against Clemson, you guys are going to lose. I think that you are going to make changes to your offensive game plan for that game out of necessity, and you will win. But if you do not change your play calling, you will be lucky to score 21 points.

Could not agree more.

 

[BamaMoon]

Thank you for making my point!

By the way, you need to edit post #743. You added your earlier comment into the body of my earlier post. For those coming along to read this later, that will be confusing.

 

[gtgilbert]

One thing I keep hearing over and over is that we need to call short, quick passes - slants, hooks, crossing patterns, etc. In two years with two OC’s, JH has not been asked to do this consistently. It seems to the consensus that this is due to the OC philosophy. Has it occurred to us that the reason may be JH does not do this well - and if we make these calls his performance gets worse?

I’ve played QB and coached QB’s on the HS level and essential to making these short, quick passes are two things. First, an ability to get the ball out quickly and decisively into a small window before it closes. Second, an ability to use your eyes to prevent defenders from jumping the routes (most picks end up going for TD’s).

From what we’ve seen of JH, does this sound like his strong suits?

That's been my theory for a long time now. with 3 different OCs, all better than us average folks out here at knowing what to do on offense and how those plays could drastically open things up, and NONE of them have consistently had jalen try to throw there. I have to think that if neither Kiffin, nor Sark, nor Daboll have called those plays much, they must be seeing something that makes them think the play wouldn't work.

The only other possibility is see is that we're actually calling a lot of option routes, but that DCs have figured out how to bait the WR into always taking the deep route instead of the inside short route. It's hard to think we'd be that simplistic in our reads, or that our OC wouldn't see that over time and adjust though...

 

[GrayTide]

I don't know what our offense will do but, if I was the Clemson OC I would run a whole bunch of crossing routes. Our LBs are too slow to cover these type routes.

 

[BamaMoon]

I don't know what our offense will do but, if I was the Clemson OC I would run a whole bunch of crossing routes. Our LBs are too slow to cover these type routes.

DBs can jam at the LOS right?

We should jam the receivers to the outside on those short 3rd downs instead of letting them run untouched across the middle of the field.

This might give up a few out patterns to the sideline, but at least the sideline becomes an extra defender and will probably not result in huge plays like when the Barn burned us with the quick crossing routes.

 

[B1GTide]

I don't know what our offense will do but, if I was the Clemson OC I would run a whole bunch of crossing routes. Our LBs are too slow to cover these type routes.

Mack is very capable of covering those routes, as is Moses. Moses has DB speed. You really don't know your team personnel very well. Maybe that is why you are so pessimistic.

ETA: http://usatodayhss.com/2017/wow-all...4-46-40-yard-dash-at-alabamas-spring-workouts

 

[CrimsonRuss]

You want to know why people are concerned???

Answer this honestly, "Are you satisfied with our 3rd down conversion rates in big games under JH?"

You understand that as good as Bama is, if we don't have the simple ability to complete short throws to convert on 3rd down we don't beat anybody that's in the playoff.

We can hand the ball to D. Harris 25-30 times in the game and it still won't be enough if we can't complete some critical throws. This is a minimum that our QB MUST be able to do.

This doesn't even account for the fact that if we want to win these game in anything other than a nail bitter we also need the QB position to hit some big, explosive passes that tend to go for 6.

To put it simply, if JH plays like he did against Auburn in the passing department, we don't win against Clemson.

I completely agree! We’ve been given a second chance. I for one am hopeful that we won’t waste this opportunity, which includes bringing Tua in to fully utilize all the talent on our offense! We have to do this imho to beat Clemson.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

I don't know what our offense will do but, if I was the Clemson OC I would run a whole bunch of crossing routes. Our LBs are too slow to cover these type routes.

A pick is a double crossing route with a bump on a defender in the middle. They're good at them...

 

[rgw]

We weren't able to cover the crossing routes against AU because our blitz packages on 3rd down were not fantastic and put LBs and safeties in some no win scenarios where they weren't gonna be on the guy if that was the route he ran.

 

[gtgilbert]

I don't know what our offense will do but, if I was the Clemson OC I would run a whole bunch of crossing routes. Our LBs are too slow to cover these type routes.

what!?!?!? Evans was the fastest out of the entire qb, lb, rb and te group over even hurts and jacobs. Mack and Jennings (and SDH, but he's out) are faster than Scarborough (although I don't think Jennings has been full speed due to his ankle). Moses might be faster than all of them but we haven't seen that published.

 

[CoachJeff]

Mack is very capable of covering those routes, as is Moses. Moses has DB speed. You really don't know your team personnel very well. Maybe that is why you are so pessimistic.

ETA: http://usatodayhss.com/2017/wow-all...4-46-40-yard-dash-at-alabamas-spring-workouts

Those are hard to cover when you're getting popped by another WR while trying to cover somebody.

 

[ProudTider]

Mack is very capable of covering those routes, as is Moses. Moses has DB speed. You really don't know your team personnel very well. Maybe that is why you are so pessimistic.

ETA: http://usatodayhss.com/2017/wow-all...4-46-40-yard-dash-at-alabamas-spring-workouts

I think Mack was at about 75% against Auburn. His speed is okay. Levi was the victim of one of those Davis crossing routes too. So, I think we need to either disguise our blitzes a little better or tap the brakes on them a bit. Hopefully our OLB's coming back will help with QB pressure instead of our S and CB.

 

[CrimsonForce]

I don't know what our offense will do but, if I was the Clemson OC I would run a whole bunch of crossing routes. Our LBs are too slow to cover these type routes.

I'm not saying you are but this statement make you appear ignorant to our personnel and scheme. We play a lot of man coverage so LBs aren't typically the ones covering crossing routes unless it's a RB or TE split out wide which does happen but not often. LBs will pick up crossing routes in zone coverage and the 3 we have left - Wilson, Moses and Evans - are 3 of the best athletes we've had playing LB in the Saban era. Wilson was slower than normal in coverage during the AU game because he broke a bone in his foot prior to the game and was trying to play through it. I assume that's what caused you to make the statement.

Just for kicks I looked up their 40 times :

Wilson 6-3 240 lbs 4.5 40
Evans 6-2 232 lbs 4.6 40
Moses 6-3 235 lbs 4.46 40

The average NFL running back is 5-11 215 lbs with w/ 40 time of 4.59..

 

[Intl.Aperture]

I think Mack was at about 75% against Auburn. His speed is okay. Levi was the victim of one of those Davis crossing routes too. So, I think we need to either disguise our blitzes a little better or tap the brakes on them a bit. Hopefully our OLB's coming back will help with QB pressure instead of our S and CB.

Levi got toasted by several underneath crossing routes. Very unusual. Not sure what coverage we were playing or what the assignments were but it happened more than once.

 

[westide]

I'm not saying you are but this statement make you appear ignorant to our personnel and scheme. We play a lot of man coverage so LBs aren't typically the ones covering crossing routes unless it's a RB or TE split out wide which does happen but not often. LBs will pick up crossing routes in zone coverage and the 3 we have left - Wilson, Moses and Evans - are 3 of the best athletes we've had playing LB in the Saban era. Wilson was slower than normal in coverage during the AU game because he broke a bone in his foot prior to the game and was trying to play through it. I assume that's what caused you to make the statement.

Just for kicks I looked up their 40 times :

Wilson 6-3 240 lbs 4.5 40
Evans 6-2 232 lbs 4.6 40
Moses 6-3 235 lbs 4.46 40

The average NFL running back is 5-11 215 lbs with w/ 40 time of 4.59..

Looks plenty fast to me. Hopefully, everyone will be healthy soon.

 

[Con]

We weren't able to cover the crossing routes against AU because our blitz packages on 3rd down were not fantastic and put LBs and safeties in some no win scenarios where they weren't gonna be on the guy if that was the route he ran.

Mack looked a step slow against Auburn to me. He looked to be favoring his foot. Hopefully he will be the old Mack by the Clemson game.

Edit: I see that some others commented on this above. I am glad I wasn't the only one who saw this.