QB Competition 2018

[3rd_and_long]

I am being honest, I would ask you to do the same. No one is calling for anyone to be benched. In all due respect you are ignoring what very knowledgable people are trying to tell you. No one can force you to accept or believe any information put in this board. However these guys on this board run a tight ship and do not allow for player insults or calls for benching so again please find those posts ....in order to fix a problem you have to accept there is one. It's as simple as that. Any qb at Bama expects to compete for a championship, but expecting that from yourself and being asked or told that from a coaching staff....nope ...not the same thing.

Forgive me as maybe I misinterpreted some of the comments. I haven't read all 84 pages. I have read more comments that were deficiencies about JH and why Tua is better than I have JH strengths and that's what I meant by tearing down. My ire was not directed at the whole board and my responses were just my opinions and not replies to other post. My whole initial opinion was that it was an unfair comparison based on the significance of their play time. Would I have loved to see what Tua looked like against Auburn's front 7? Absolutely so you, I and everyone else could stop hypothesizing and we could compare apples.


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[danb]

At this point in the season, Jalen has to be the starter.

It has been well documented in multiple threads the pro’s and con’s of each QB. It’s pretty obvious that Jalen trusts his legs more than his arm. That’s not saying he hasn’t thrown some absolute beautiful strikes, or is not capable of leading a passing attack drive. It just appears to me that he sometimes second guesses the throw and misses windows that he could have delivered a strike. I also feel that the play calling against good D’s has hurt us to a great degree as well.

Tua, on the other hand, has shown the ability to move and stay within the pocket and deliver some beautiful strikes with laser precision and has incredible mechanics in his passing. He has also took some chances that maybe he shouldn’t have, and made some mistakes as well.

The deciding factor for me is Experience. Tua hasn’t had the experience or had the pressure of having to win a game yet, other than finishing games already well in hand. Jalen has. That’s not saying he can’t or wouldn’t deliver in a clutch situation, he just hasn’t been in that position to prove he can deliver against a top tier D under pressure. He could come out and light up Clempsons D and make them look bad, but he could also come out and fold under all the pressure. It has the potential to get ugly in a hurry. I don’t believe the cfp is the time to go switching qb’s, but I’m all for an intense QB competition going into next season for the starting position. Despite all his noted flaws, Jalens resume is just too good to sit him this season.


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[3rd_and_long]

Question... have you ever been on a HS or above coaching staff?

Not on a staff but played enough to know when a coach has or does not have confidence in a particular player. I also know that if that kind of information has escaped the vacuum of a program then there's no telling what's going on inside.


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[PA Tide Fan]

The problem is that he's trying to cut down on Ints and he has done that. He took lot of risks throwing the ball last year. Jalen is more conservative passer who doesn't use the RBs to check down often. Tua likes to take risks... and that doesn't always make the coaches happy. Both have yet to find the balance in safe and risky passes. That's why I posted the video... to show that both can make plays... Jalen has thrown a pass into tight coverages at times...

You're right that they both need to find a balance. There's no doubt that Tua takes more risks. He has a lot of confidence in his arm while Jalen has more confidence in his legs. I'm sure Tua would throw more INT's but he would also throw more TD's however which might make up for it. This may sound strange but when I see a QB with only 1 INT all season it worries me. It shows he's way too conservative. McElroy, A.J. and Coker all threw more INT's. Last year Jalen was more aggressive and threw 8 more INT's than this season but he also threw 8 more TD passes. The only way we'll ever know what Tua can really do is if Coach Saban is willing to put him in a tight game against a good opponent.

 

[RedWave]

This is a tough discussion. I can see the points from both sides of the argument, and don't think either is 100% wrong or right. Yes, JH isn't performing at the level we had hoped he would. Yes, Tua had some good showings in backup duty against tired defenses that JH had already beaten. Yes, I would love to see what Tua could have done in some places where JH fell short.

And a poster above stated the obvious: all of us here want to see Bama win above anything else. The one thing I can't get past is the fact that there is likely NOBODY who wants us to win more than Coach Saban does. Not just in the game, but in every play that happens. So, that being the case, don't we all believe that the best coach of this generation, and perhaps all time, would be making exactly the changes many are advocating here if he thought he could be successful with them? JH not making the quick passes? Nick likely has tried it in practice and has a good reason we don't try those in game. Tua not playing despite the better arm? Nick sees everything the kid does, and if he were the better option, he would be playing. I guess one thing about Saban is that he is rather risk-averse, so he is always going to opt for protecting the ball rather than take risks with it. This is really nothing new for him at all. So, whether I get the results I want or not, regardless who is playing the position in question, I am always on the "In Nick I Trust" train.

 

[BamaMoon]

BUT if Tua was to have thrown 2-3 picks playing LSU or MSU or Auburn everyone would be screaming to pull the RS off of Jones.
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I disagree with much of this post, but I've got to tell you I believe you are wrong about this. The reason many of us believe Tua could be helpful to our passing woes is because we've seen him play a bunch this year in real games and our eyes don't lie. On the other hand, nobody has seen Mac Jones take a snap. Obviously if Tua played and struggled we wouldn't say "put in Jones" we'd say, "go back to Jalen."

There are bias's among the Alabama football base that have gone back a long time. Looks like they have made there way into the locker room.

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You are getting dangerously close to injecting that this is based on racism. That's absolutely false if you are talking about those posting on this board. Not one person has said this has anything to do the the color of someone's skin. And if you are saying it's a racial thing in the locker room that is even more unbelievable. This is not the 1980's and Walter Lewis is not our QB.

I have some knowledge of what's going on in the program as well. I know that are some staff coaches that aren't huge JH fans. And those are leadership issues that trickle down to the locker room. If I've heard it I know the players know and that is a virus. That's all I'm gonna say about that.
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I won't say you don't have inside knowledge because I don't know you, but you should understand how someone who is new to the board with a low post count might not be totally trusted when they start claiming that have "insider knowledge." That's just not something new posters usually start throwing around unless they are trying to stir things up and it's a very quick way to get labeled a "troll."

 

[BAMARICH]

Not on a staff but played enough to know when a coach has or does not have confidence in a particular player. I also know that if that kind of information has escaped the vacuum of a program then there's no telling what's going on inside.


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Reason I ask is because coaching staffs do not operate like most people outside looking in think they should. When there are a number of players with "near-equal ability", there's going to be various opinions among the staff as to who plays and how much. The outside perception is that they should all fall in line with the decisions that are ultimately made - but what is not considered is the stake a coach has in the situation. If you're a coach who believes the wrong players are being played - or time isn't being correctly allotted, it has a direct impact on your job security and coaching future. The point? There's always going to be some disagreement on players/playing time among the staff - and yes, sometimes it will be heated and will be known by the players. That's the norm though - and both players and coaches are used to that being the case.

Your insinuation is that Jalen is supposedly losing support among teammates because of coaches - that he's an innocent victim in all this and it's not because of anything he's done. The issue with that implication is that it completely leaves out performances we've seen from JH. It's clear that in bigger games, he's keeping the ball at times when he should hand it off... he holds the ball at times when he should be throwing it... he often lacks patience in the pocket. Coaches see this, but players do also - and it's a hindrance to his leadership. As I mentioned a few pages ago, Jalen is in this situation because of Jalen - and if it's going to be solved in his favor, then he's going to have to solve it.

 

[BamaMoon]

You're right that they both need to find a balance. There's no doubt that Tua takes more risks. He has a lot of confidence in his arm while Jalen has more confidence in his legs. I'm sure Tua would throw more INT's but he would also throw more TD's however which might make up for it. This may sound strange but when I see a QB with only 1 INT all season it worries me. It shows he's way too conservative. McElroy, A.J. and Coker all threw more INT's. Last year Jalen was more aggressive and threw 8 more INT's than this season but he also threw 8 more TD passes. The only way we'll ever know what Tua can really do is if Coach Saban is willing to put him in a tight game against a good opponent.

Thank you for seeing this. I've said it a few times too. Can't have big plays in the passing game without turning it loose! And 2 or 3 more passing tds offset the occasional INT or even, at worse, pick 6.

 

[3rd_and_long]

Reason I ask is because coaching staffs do not operate like most people outside looking in think they should. When there are a number of players with "near-equal ability", there's going to be various opinions among the staff as to who plays and how much. The outside perception is that they should all fall in line with the decisions that are ultimately made - but what is not considered is the stake a coach has in the situation. If you're a coach who believes the wrong players are being played - or time isn't being correctly allotted, it has a direct impact on your job security and coaching future. The point? There's always going to be some disagreement on players/playing time among the staff - and yes, sometimes it will be heated and will be known by the players. That's the norm though - and both players and coaches are used to that being the case.

Your insinuation is that Jalen is supposedly losing support among teammates because of coaches - that he's an innocent victim in all this and it's not because of anything he's done. The issue with that implication is that it completely leaves out performances we've seen from JH. It's clear that in bigger games, he's keeping the ball at times when he should hand it off... he holds the ball at times when he should be throwing it... he often lacks patience in the pocket. Coaches see this, but players do also - and it's a hindrance to his leadership. As I mentioned a few pages ago, Jalen is in this situation because of Jalen - and if it's going to be solved in his favor, then he's going to have to solve it.

So are you insinuating that if Daboll tells Jalen to stand in the pocket and either throw the ball or take the sack or put the ball in the gut of the RB no matter the read that JH won't do it game after game after coaches watching and breaking down game film. This not a rhetorical question I'm being honest cause you might know something I don't and I'm willing to concede that.


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[TiderJack]

I will leave this particular thread after this post. My point to the "anti-Jalen bashing" is that we are in the middle of a play-off run with a team that is capable of winning as is and some are calling for Tua to play. Jalen had a bad game against the Barn that we lost but the sky is not falling.

I said previously the competition should be wide open in the spring. I also seem to remember we have a rule on this board about bashing current players. I know some or most comments are not bashing but some certainly are.

 

[BAMARICH]

So are you insinuating that if Daboll tells Jalen to stand in the pocket and either throw the ball or take the sack or put the ball in the gut of the RB no matter the read that JH won't do it game after game after coaches watching and breaking down game film. This not a rhetorical question I'm being honest cause you might know something I don't and I'm willing to concede that.

Your question is not clear - the part about "game after game after coaches watching and breaking down game film"???

 

[BAMARICH]

I will leave this particular thread after this post. My point to the "anti-Jalen bashing" is that we are in the middle of a play-off run with a team that is capable of winning as is and some are calling for Tua to play. Jalen had a bad game against the Barn that we lost but the sky is not falling.

I said previously the competition should be wide open in the spring. I also seem to remember we have a rule on this board about bashing current players. I know some or most comments are not bashing but some certainly are.

"Bash" defined is "to hurl verbal abuse against someone". I realize that we often want to see things the way we see them, but it isn't "bashing" to point out the deficiencies that exist on a football team. I've yet to see someone accuse Jalen of being a bad person, arrogant teammate, or any such thing which would fall into the category of "bashing".

Concerning the ability to win "as is", the only way we win against Clemson playing "as is" (aka - the way we played against AU) is if Clemson hands us the game. You clearly believe his performance was an aberration, but everyone is not convinced with you.

 

[Titans&Tide]

I have to believe everyone on this thread wants Alabama to win the national championship, preferably with Jalen at Quarterback.

Try again... and this time, refrain from bashing other people.

 

[JTBama]

I will leave this particular thread after this post. My point to the "anti-Jalen bashing" is that we are in the middle of a play-off run with a team that is capable of winning as is and some are calling for Tua to play. Jalen had a bad game against the Barn that we lost but the sky is not falling.

I said previously the competition should be wide open in the spring. I also seem to remember we have a rule on this board about bashing current players. I know some or most comments are not bashing but some certainly are.

I just don't get the concept of "Jalen bashing". I have yet to see it. If at anytime discussing progression, regression, defeciencies, or comparisons is bashing anyone....there would probably be little to zero room for discussion about anything or any topics and there wouldn't be any room for a discussion board . Anyone may feel free to correct me but I don't believe this discussion is based on the Auburn game rather a recollection of games played in two years and where things stand at this point. Can he improve...absolutely, however no one is judging Jalens past or future based on the Auburn game alone

 

[TIDE-HSV]

So are you insinuating that if Daboll tells Jalen to stand in the pocket and either throw the ball or take the sack or put the ball in the gut of the RB no matter the read that JH won't do it game after game after coaches watching and breaking down game film. This not a rhetorical question I'm being honest cause you might know something I don't and I'm willing to concede that.


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I have suspended your posting privileges. Please contact me via Pm...

TIDE-HSV

 

[TIDE-HSV]

I will leave this particular thread after this post. My point to the "anti-Jalen bashing" is that we are in the middle of a play-off run with a team that is capable of winning as is and some are calling for Tua to play. Jalen had a bad game against the Barn that we lost but the sky is not falling.

I said previously the competition should be wide open in the spring. I also seem to remember we have a rule on this board about bashing current players. I know some or most comments are not bashing but some certainly are.

This is not "bashing," to discuss the strengths and weaknesses of our players, frankly and honestly. See the site policies for a definition and examples of "bashing." Nevertheless, I think your decision to leave the thread is a sound one...

 

[BamaMoon]

I just don't get the concept of "Jalen bashing". I have yet to see it. If at anytime discussing progression, regression, defeciencies, or comparisons is bashing anyone....there would probably be little to zero room for discussion about anything or any topics and there wouldn't be any room for a discussion board . Anyone may feel free to correct me but I don't believe this discussion is based on the Auburn game rather a recollection of games played in two years and where things stand at this point. Can he improve...absolutely, however no one is judging Jalens past or future based on the Auburn game alone

CORRECT. The Clemson and Auburn games stand out, as losses. But let's not be fooled into thinking that all of the 25 wins he's been a part of mean there's nothing there to learn from either.

The wins against Washington last year, and FSU, LSU and MSU this year all stand out as games that revealed major cracks in his passing game too.

Can we not give credit to him for being a part of those wins, but also discussing he struggled against these better defenses too?

Botton line, we've either struggled or lost games against the best teams because of a failure to pass the ball effectively. And a failure to improve means we don't finish this year 2-0.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

I just don't get the concept of "Jalen bashing". I have yet to see it. If at anytime discussing progression, regression, defeciencies, or comparisons is bashing anyone....there would probably be little to zero room for discussion about anything or any topics and there wouldn't be any room for a discussion board . Anyone may feel free to correct me but I don't believe this discussion is based on the Auburn game rather a recollection of games played in two years and where things stand at this point. Can he improve...absolutely, however no one is judging Jalens past or future based on the Auburn game alone

Apparently, in some minds, any critical remark is "bashing." I've just learned I've been being "bashed" all my life...

 

[JTBama]

Apparently, in some minds, any critical remark is "bashing." I've just learned I've been being "bashed" all my life...

Ha...I guess that explains a lot for me too

 

[Titans&Tide]

Try again... and this time, refrain from bashing other people.

Sorry Rich, I'm not sure what I said that could be interpreted as bashing anyone. But here goes.

I want Alabama to win the NC, and I don't give a crap about who we have at QB when we do it as long as the trophy comes to Tuscaloosa.

I do not think it is prudent to replace a QB who is 27-2 as a starter with someone who has played limited amounts in mop-up duty even though that player has looked good in his limited duty thus far. I believe that such a change would be especially questionable during a playoff run. If a QB competition is needed, do it in the Spring.

Hopefully no one is bashed by these comments.