Russia Invades Ukraine VIII

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PaulD

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Russia's army is in a woeful state


Non-commissioned officers—senior enlisted men who train and supervise soldiers—are the backbone of nato’s armed forces. Russia does not have a comparable cadre. There are “too many colonels and not enough corporals”, says a European defence official. Staff training is rigid and outdated, he says, obsessed with the second world war and with little attention paid to newer conflicts. That may explain why doctrine was thrown out of the window. Manoeuvres that seemed easy at Vostok and other stage-managed exercises proved harder to reproduce under fire and far from home.

To the extent that Russian officers have studied their military history, they appear to have imbibed the worst lessons of the Afghan, Chechen and Syrian wars. During their occupation of northern Ukraine, Russian soldiers not only drank heavily and looted homes and shops, but murdered large numbers of civilians. Some have been rewarded for it. On April 18th the 64th Motorised Infantry Brigade, accused of massacring civilians in Bucha, was decorated by Mr Putin for its “mass heroism and courage” and accorded the honour of becoming a “Guards” unit.
 

TIDE-HSV

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Russia's army is in a woeful state


Non-commissioned officers—senior enlisted men who train and supervise soldiers—are the backbone of nato’s armed forces. Russia does not have a comparable cadre. There are “too many colonels and not enough corporals”, says a European defence official. Staff training is rigid and outdated, he says, obsessed with the second world war and with little attention paid to newer conflicts. That may explain why doctrine was thrown out of the window. Manoeuvres that seemed easy at Vostok and other stage-managed exercises proved harder to reproduce under fire and far from home.

To the extent that Russian officers have studied their military history, they appear to have imbibed the worst lessons of the Afghan, Chechen and Syrian wars. During their occupation of northern Ukraine, Russian soldiers not only drank heavily and looted homes and shops, but murdered large numbers of civilians. Some have been rewarded for it. On April 18th the 64th Motorised Infantry Brigade, accused of massacring civilians in Bucha, was decorated by Mr Putin for its “mass heroism and courage” and accorded the honour of becoming a “Guards” unit.
Putin did that as a big middle finger to the west. My grandson has been in the Navy now for two years, gone through IT training and is working on his EE degree. He already has three stripes. As Tidewater has said, they have a demographic problem...
 

Go Bama

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In the German reply, the Tweeter says that the German Economics Minister, and allies, are thinking of alternatives. For the life of me, I can't think of any alternative which will do the same damage to Putin...
Thanks, I had wondered what that said. My German is very basic at best.
 

TIDE-HSV

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This is a 2019 article about a Rand Corporation (think tank) study, which is a bit disturbing. It doesn't take in account the effectiveness of the Javelin and the other anti-armor weapons the Ukraines have used to devastating result. However, it does diminish somewhat the expectations for the 155 howitzers being exported. For one thing, the actual diameter is almost not existent. It's largely an artifact of how the two countries measure the shells. Also, given a 300 mile front, what we've sent so far amounts to a starter kit...

Rand
 

Tidewater

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This is a 2019 article about a Rand Corporation (think tank) study, which is a bit disturbing. It doesn't take in account the effectiveness of the Javelin and the other anti-armor weapons the Ukraines have used to devastating result. However, it does diminish somewhat the expectations for the 155 howitzers being exported. For one thing, the actual diameter is almost not existent. It's largely an artifact of how the two countries measure the shells. Also, given a 300 mile front, what we've sent so far amounts to a starter kit...

Rand
Russian 152mm arty has greater range than American 155mm arty.
The reason? The Russian put more powder behind the projectile, which is fine, until the breach blows and kills the crew. The Russians do not care.
The Russian attitude is (a) until it fails, we get better range and (b) when it fails, we can always get more gunners.
 

TIDE-HSV

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Russian 152mm arty has greater range than American 155mm arty.
The reason? The Russian put more powder behind the projectile, which is fine, until the breach blows and kills the crew. The Russians do not care.
The Russian attitude is (a) until it fails, we get better range and (b) when it fails, we can always get more gunners.
Are they going to train Syrians and Chechens? :)
 
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TexasBama

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Russian 152mm arty has greater range than American 155mm arty.
The reason? The Russian put more powder behind the projectile, which is fine, until the breach blows and kills the crew. The Russians do not care.
The Russian attitude is (a) until it fails, we get better range and (b) when it fails, we can always get more gunners.
our artillery shoots magnums

ETA. The same thinking is why they didn’t put a containment building at Chernobyl
 
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BamaFlum

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Russian 152mm arty has greater range than American 155mm arty.
The reason? The Russian put more powder behind the projectile, which is fine, until the breach blows and kills the crew. The Russians do not care.
The Russian attitude is (a) until it fails, we get better range and (b) when it fails, we can always get more gunners.
Hasn’t Russian military philosophy always been like this? I remember reading about WW1 and the way the Russians indiscriminately used their infantry as cannon fodder. It seems like from the Czars to the Soviet/Communist Oligarchs, Russians have a very human life is expendable philosophy vs the West.
 

NationalTitles18

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Hasn’t Russian military philosophy always been like this? I remember reading about WW1 and the way the Russians indiscriminately used their infantry as cannon fodder. It seems like from the Czars to the Soviet/Communist Oligarchs, Russians have a very human life is expendable philosophy vs the West.
It seems there's less of a contrast over the past two years, though.
 

crimsonaudio

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Hasn’t Russian military philosophy always been like this? I remember reading about WW1 and the way the Russians indiscriminately used their infantry as cannon fodder. It seems like from the Czars to the Soviet/Communist Oligarchs, Russians have a very human life is expendable philosophy vs the West.
I recall reading about Soviet troops in WWII that were shipped to the front lines without rifles due to manufacturing shortages - they were told they would be able to retrieve rifles from their dead countrymen.
 

UAH

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Pentagon's Kirby Calls Putin `Depraved' During Emotional Briefing
Released this morning - How the US Military really feels about what is happening in Ukraine.

 
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