Sen. John Fetterman is the best Democratic candidate for 2028, IMHO.....

Bamaro

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Neither Buttigieg nor Fetterman will or should run. For different reasons each would be unelectable. Other than maybe another try by Klobuchar, its probably going to be somebody not being thought about yet. Newsome may try but will would fail in primarys.
 
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selmaborntidefan

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Neither Buttigieg nor Fetterman will or should run. For different reasons each would be unelectable. Other than maybe another try by Klobuchar, its probably going to be somebody not being thought about yet. Newsome may try but will would fail in primarys.
Aside from his goofy wardrobe, Fetterman would be vulnerable in a Democratic primary on Israel nowadays (he wouldn't have been, say, 20 years ago or mabye even ten). His health would also be a legitimate concern even though he seems to be functioning okay now. It's one of those things that's always there.

Mayor Pete has assessed his chances in Michigan after removing his pronouns from his Twitter page and still opted to not run. This, to me, is like Beto O'Rourke's stock rising and then his refusing to run for governor in 2018 or Senator in 2020 - but deciding to run for the big job.

Dismiss all polls showing "Harris and AOC are on top", they're all based on name recognition at this point. Harris is not going to be the nominee again given she wasn't their first choice last time, and she ran a less than stellar race.

But I'll throw in with you on something, too. Most Americans had never heard of:
- Jimmy Carter in 1974
- Michael Dukakis in 1986
- John Kerry in 2002

More Americans had heard of Bill Clinton in 1992 both because he'd given that long speech in 1988 and then appeared on Johnny Carson after that debacle with good humor. And a decent chunk of Americans had heard of Obama in 2007 because of his 2004 convention speech coverage.
 

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Former Fetterman Aide Expressed Concern to Doctor About Senator’s Mental Health
The former chief of staff to Senator John Fetterman last year wrote to a doctor who had treated him, pointing to “warning signs” that suggested the senator could be backsliding on his recovery from a mental health crisis.

The former chief of staff to Senator John Fetterman, Democrat of Pennsylvania, was so alarmed with his ex-boss’s erratic behavior last year that he wrote a lengthy letter to his doctor warning that the senator was spiraling out of control and that his mental health issues could cost him his life.

“I’m worried that if John stays on his current trajectory he won’t be with us for much longer,” Adam Jentleson, the former chief of staff, wrote on May 20 to a doctor who had treated Mr. Fetterman at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center.

Mr. Fetterman’s behavior, according to former aides who are still connected to his diminishing circle, is still at times a cause of concern. Other former members of his staff, speaking on the condition of anonymity, report that their colleagues sometimes were frightened to be in the senator’s presence, if he was in an amped-up mood.
 

selmaborntidefan

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Former Fetterman Aide Expressed Concern to Doctor About Senator’s Mental Health
The former chief of staff to Senator John Fetterman last year wrote to a doctor who had treated him, pointing to “warning signs” that suggested the senator could be backsliding on his recovery from a mental health crisis.

The former chief of staff to Senator John Fetterman, Democrat of Pennsylvania, was so alarmed with his ex-boss’s erratic behavior last year that he wrote a lengthy letter to his doctor warning that the senator was spiraling out of control and that his mental health issues could cost him his life.

“I’m worried that if John stays on his current trajectory he won’t be with us for much longer,” Adam Jentleson, the former chief of staff, wrote on May 20 to a doctor who had treated Mr. Fetterman at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center.

Mr. Fetterman’s behavior, according to former aides who are still connected to his diminishing circle, is still at times a cause of concern. Other former members of his staff, speaking on the condition of anonymity, report that their colleagues sometimes were frightened to be in the senator’s presence, if he was in an amped-up mood.
Democrats While Fetterman Was A Candidate And Senate Power Hung In the Balance:
"he's courageous and overcoming blah blah blah"
Democrats After Fetterman Is too Pro-Israel For Their Anti-Semitic Base: "Fetterman is erratic."

Anyone who cannot see what happened here - just like with Sinema -is willfully blind.

It's just like how all the Democrats who now say they like Mitt Romney were the same ones who called him a misogynist, a racist, and a guy who didn't pay his taxes (you know - same attacks they made with much more validity on Trump). They're like the modern-day Republicans who insist they'd like Martin Luther King.
 
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There is just a ton of water that is going to pass under the bridge between now and the time to select a candidate. Candidate will have career-ending mistakes, some might even pass away (God forbid).
Issues prominent now might not be so prominent then. Issue that will be prominent then are barely on our radar now.
Trump is not going to be on the ballot. That in itself will shape who the Democrats nominate. I think the Democrats will need to decide between the AOC/Bernie Progressive wing (not those candidates per se, but Democrats who think like them) and the "party of the working man" wing. Not saying those two are antithetical either, but some Democrats (as archetypes) are union members who fly a US flag from their house and some have purple hair and believe colonialism and capitalism are our greatest threats and must be deconstructed.
 
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CrimsonJazz

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There is just a ton of water that is going to pass under the bridge between now and the time to select a candidate. Candidate will have career-ending mistakes, some might even pass away (God forbid).
Issues prominent now might not be so prominent then. Issue that will be prominent then are barely on our radar now.
Trump is not going to be on the ballot. That in itself will shape who the Democrats nominate. I think the Democrats will need to decide between the AOC/Bernie Progressive wing (not those candidates per se, but Democrats who think like them) and the "party of the working man" wing. Not saying those two are antithetical either, but some Democrats (as archetypes) are union members who fly a US flag from their house and some have purple hair and believe colonialism and capitalism are our greatest threats and must be deconstructed.
The GOP has a similar problem Many people have shoveled dirt onto the faces of the Bush GOP, but they haven't been soundly defeated (yet.) The future of the GOP will likely come down to how successful Trump's second term is and will dictate the future of the establishment GOP versus MAGA. The primaries will be interesting to watch.
 

Its On A Slab

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Aside from his goofy wardrobe, Fetterman would be vulnerable in a Democratic primary on Israel nowadays (he wouldn't have been, say, 20 years ago or mabye even ten). His health would also be a legitimate concern even though he seems to be functioning okay now. It's one of those things that's always there.

Mayor Pete has assessed his chances in Michigan after removing his pronouns from his Twitter page and still opted to not run. This, to me, is like Beto O'Rourke's stock rising and then his refusing to run for governor in 2018 or Senator in 2020 - but deciding to run for the big job.

Dismiss all polls showing "Harris and AOC are on top", they're all based on name recognition at this point. Harris is not going to be the nominee again given she wasn't their first choice last time, and she ran a less than stellar race.

But I'll throw in with you on something, too. Most Americans had never heard of:
- Jimmy Carter in 1974
- Michael Dukakis in 1986
- John Kerry in 2002

More Americans had heard of Bill Clinton in 1992 both because he'd given that long speech in 1988 and then appeared on Johnny Carson after that debacle with good humor. And a decent chunk of Americans had heard of Obama in 2007 because of his 2004 convention speech coverage.
Sinema voted with Trump's agenda at least 50% of the time. Manchin even more (don't know the exact figures).

When you are elected and then choose to align with the opposition party, is it beyond the pale to be called on it?

 
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selmaborntidefan

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Sinema voted with Trump's agenda at least 50% of the time. Manchin even more (don't know the exact figures).

When you are elected and then choose to align with the opposition party, is it beyond the pale to be called on it?

You represent your state, not the national party. Arizona is more of a purple state than Vermont is. And we have elections precisely for that. You’re not there to be a surefire vote for idiotic extremism. It’s precisely why we have local
Representation.

And again - l find the hypocrisy of using the filibuster they only have because of Sinema (and Manchin) rich to put it mildly. If it weren’t for those 2, Trump would he creating more havoc than he’s capable now.
 

Its On A Slab

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You represent your state, not the national party. Arizona is more of a purple state than Vermont is. And we have elections precisely for that. You’re not there to be a surefire vote for idiotic extremism. It’s precisely why we have local
Representation.

And again - l find the hypocrisy of using the filibuster they only have because of Sinema (and Manchin) rich to put it mildly. If it weren’t for those 2, Trump would he creating more havoc than he’s capable now.
You also represent your country. When an autocrat is systematically tearing down the country, and you are giving him a thumbs-up 50+% of the time, it's time to call a spade a spade.
 

Tidewater

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The GOP has a similar problem Many people have shoveled dirt onto the faces of the Bush GOP, but they haven't been soundly defeated (yet.) The future of the GOP will likely come down to how successful Trump's second term is and will dictate the future of the establishment GOP versus MAGA. The primaries will be interesting to watch.
Yep. I see the Republicans as torn between isolationism (that is not the right term, but J. D. Vance in the chat on dealing with the Huthis in Yemen was extremely skeptical of the use of American force to serve European ends) on one hand and aggressive interventionism ("whenever there ios a proble anywhere in the world, it is America's job to fix it") on the other..
There is also the wing who sees any international trade as evidence of the exploitation of American workers (one on hand) and the "free traders" (on the other).

To a certaunb extent, who ends of einning the parties' nominations will depend on what the other die does.
 
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selmaborntidefan

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You also represent your country. When an autocrat is systematically tearing down the country, and you are giving him a thumbs-up 50+% of the time, it's time to call a spade a spade.
I have zero problem if the Democrats want to choose another candidate. That's why we have elections.

But you don't get to say "they march in lockstep with Trump, it's a cult" and then demand your own members do the same, either. 50%, maybe too high - unless of course the voters of ARIZONA see otherwise, in which case she'd still be in the Senate.

And I reiterate: since you yourself are calling him an autocrat, you better be damned glad she didn't abolish that filibuster.

It never ceases to amaze me how often nowadays I hear the "well, Republicans better be ready to live under the world they created with a Democratic President" from the same politicians who somehow wanted the filibuster abolished but only when they were calling the shots.

Same thing with that popular vote compact that amazingly vanished in 2024 as far as being front-page news.
 

Its On A Slab

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The Gastarbeiters n the late 1950s to early 1970s were mainly from Italy and Turkey, and they came legally and in limited numbers. Those who came and have stayed have largely become culturally German.
There are a ton of videos of young Arab men harassing young German girls because the German girls are dressed more provocatively than Arab men think they should be. The Arab men think they are whores and treat them as such.
I really think the difference between Germany now and Germany is volume. In 2010 there were 4 million Turks living in Germany. With the Syrian Civil War, and the the war in Afghanistan, Europe was flooded with immigrants and Germany took more than her share of them.
As of 31 DEC 2024, there were 14,061,640 foreign-born people in Germany, including 1.5 million from Turkey, 1.3 million from Ukraine, one million from Africa, a million from Syria, half a million from Afghanistan. a quarter of a million from Iraq. That is an order of magnitude bigger than the Gastarbeiters. Hard to digest and assimilate that many.
I have zero problem if the Democrats want to choose another candidate. That's why we have elections.

But you don't get to say "they march in lockstep with Trump, it's a cult" and then demand your own members do the same, either. 50%, maybe too high - unless of course the voters of ARIZONA see otherwise, in which case she'd still be in the Senate.

And I reiterate: since you yourself are calling him an autocrat, you better be damned glad she didn't abolish that filibuster.

It never ceases to amaze me how often nowadays I hear the "well, Republicans better be ready to live under the world they created with a Democratic President" from the same politicians who somehow wanted the filibuster abolished but only when they were calling the shots.

Same thing with that popular vote compact that amazingly vanished in 2024 as far as being front-page news.
Democrats are going to be worried about a lot more when/if we take the reins of power back.

I thought Biden had a laundry list of EOs to unscrew what Trump did the 1st time.

I have no reason to believe there will be retributiions. That is entirely on the side of the party that purports to be about freedom and justice, yet acts every day in conflict with either notion.
 
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Tidewater

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Democrats are going to be worried about a lot more when/if we take the reins of power back.
That is, I guess the silver lining of ruling by EO. What's been done by EO can be undone by EO.

I have no reason to believe there will be retributiions. That is entirely on the side of the party that purports to be about freedom and justice, yet acts every day in conflict with either notion.
Here is the challenge (and I am thinking of the Roman republic as my example), a violation of he norms on one said ("Because we face an emergency.") sets the stage for a different violation of the norms by the other side.
Populares tried to enact land reform.
Optimates (who held the position of Pontifex Maximus,) declared the day of voting was a holiday (no Senate action on holidays). (This custom had never been used that way before)
Populares tribunes veto every act of the Senate until land reform is enacted.
Mobs led/instigated by Optimates murder Tiberius Gracchus (tribunes were supposed to be sacrosanct, untouchable).
Populares proscribe (murder) a few of their enemies.
Optimates proscribe a lot of their enemies.
etc. etc.

Just one modern example:
Republicans refuse to vote on Obama judicial nominees.
Democrats say, "Fine. We will set aside Senate rules on philibustering in regards to judicial nominees."
Republicans complain and warn their Democratic colleagues, "Don't do that. You will not like it when we do it."
Democrats vote on judges by simple majority.
Republicans then say, "Okay, we want to vote on Supreme Court nominees by simple majority."

The point is that the legitimacy of a violation of the norm is not the side setting the norm aside (everybody thinks their side is acting within the rules). The legitimacy is judged by the other side. The next time Republicans consider setting aside a norm, they need to ask themselves how Democrats will take the setting aside of the norm.
 

Its On A Slab

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That is, I guess the silver lining of ruling by EO. What's been done by EO can be undone by EO.


Here is the challenge (and I am thinking of the Roman republic as my example), a violation of he norms on one said ("Because we face an emergency.") sets the stage for a different violation of the norms by the other side.
Populares tried to enact land reform.
Optimates (who held the position of Pontifex Maximus,) declared the day of voting was a holiday (no Senate action on holidays). (This custom had never been used that way before)
Populares tribunes veto every act of the Senate until land reform is enacted.
Mobs led/instigated by Optimates murder Tiberius Gracchus (tribunes were supposed to be sacrosanct, untouchable).
Populares proscribe (murder) a few of their enemies.
Optimates proscribe a lot of their enemies.
etc. etc.

Just one modern example:
Republicans refuse to vote on Obama judicial nominees.
Democrats say, "Fine. We will set aside Senate rules on philibustering in regards to judicial nominees."
Republicans complain and warn their Democratic colleagues, "Don't do that. You will not like it when we do it."
Democrats vote on judges by simple majority.
Republicans then say, "Okay, we want to vote on Supreme Court nominees by simple majority."

The point is that the legitimacy of a violation of the norm is not the side setting the norm aside (everybody thinks their side is acting within the rules). The legitimacy is judged by the other side. The next time Republicans consider setting aside a norm, they need to ask themselves how Democrats will take the setting aside of the norm.
It seems to me that there will be a lengthy process of reinstituting norms when the current dumpster fire is gone from Washington. The damage done already will take a number of years to repair.
 

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It seems to me that there will be a lengthy process of reinstituting norms when the current dumpster fire is gone from Washington. The damage done already will take a number of years to repair.
That's true. Tough to get that toothpaste back in the tube, though.

In the case of the Roman Republic, the violation of norms only really went one way: a violation by one party begat a different violation by the other. And the spiral to Augustus continued.
 

Its On A Slab

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That's true. Tough to get that toothpaste back in the tube, though.

In the case of the Roman Republic, the violation of norms only really went one way: a violation by one party begat a different violation by the other. And the spiral to Augustus continued.
Yep, and we are seeing the last stage of it now. The open defiance of the courts, even the SC. For all of the complaints about EOs and Imperial Presidency in past administrations, we've never had a POTUS give the middle finger to the courts like this one has.
 

selmaborntidefan

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If this is actually true (and I'm not even saying it isn't), it won't be long until someone's hidden I phone takes the video to prove the point. As a reminder, we've heard some of these same allegations of outbursts (albeit not with the post-stroke depression) about Klobuchar and Harris treating staff like garbage.

Again, I suspect if Shapiro was a Republican (and would thus replace Fetterman with a Republican), we wouldn't be hearing any of this stuff.

My suspicion is the truth probably lies somewhere between the extreme interpretations in both directions, the debate being which direction is more accurate.
 
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