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Question: Shouldn't Michigan's National Championship come with a huge Asterisk?

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davefrat said:
Were they sign-stealing this season?

I honestly don't know.
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I believe they were. When all of the attention was focused on them and they removed the guy that was running the operation, they probably stopped. I'm sure they continued to use whatever data they had accumulated to that point. But of course, any competent coaching staff was going to change up signals at that point, knowing what UM had been doing. And that includes us. That's why I say the sign-stealing did not benefit them against us. They were just a better prepared and tougher team that evening.
 
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It is interesting to ponder how things would have played out had we beaten Michigan. We wouldn't still have Saban. 2023 was his last rodeo, and no particular win or loss would have swayed that decision. But...would we have Deboer? Would he have been a candidate after a Bama vs Washington national title game? Had we won (a hypothetical game with Washington) do we still go after Deboer? And had Washington won, would they let the guy who just won a national championship get away so easily? Interesting to consider.

But...should Michigan's title come with a *? It should. But, really and truly, Michigan got a pass on the sign stealing LONG before the playoffs
 
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I don't add asterisks next to championships unless it's really egregious and the cheating actually lead to winning in an obvious way.

I don't think that applies here. They won. They were very good.
 
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B1GTide said:
Accepting cheating is worse than the cheating itself, IMO. We have abandoned integrity altogether. We have no shame.
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I don't accept cheating...but I also don't think adding an asterisk to a title means anything.

IF it mattered enough to the NCAA/CFB/Media and whoever else, then MI should have been excluded from the playoff.

Since they weren't, and they beat everyone they played this season, they won and it's over and done with as far as I'm concerned.
 
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CrimsonCleanse said:
It is interesting to ponder how things would have played out had we beaten Michigan. We wouldn't still have Saban. 2023 was his last rodeo, and no particular win or loss would have swayed that decision. But...would we have Deboer? Would he have been a candidate after a Bama vs Washington national title game? Had we won (a hypothetical game with Washington) do we still go after Deboer? And had Washington won, would they let the guy who just won a national championship get away so easily? Interesting to consider.

But...should Michigan's title come with a *? It should. But, really and truly, Michigan got a pass on the sign stealing LONG before the playoffs
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I think Coach Saban was coming back until he saw the way the team responded the loss, both immediately after and in the days following. There were too many self-absorbed responses, and not enough ticked off, ready to get back to work.

A win against Michigan, followed by a win vs. Washington might have changed that. A loss to Washington probably reveals the same kinds of responses.
 
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jjv0004 said:
They beat Alabama. Man v. man. Why make excuses now about losing to them? Either way Alabama should have won the game.
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Agreed - they won that game straight up. But that was because you knew and could prepare. Same for most games last year. But not all games, and it went on for years. Who knows if those players and coaches are ever assembled for last season without the cheating. That is why it matters. It elevated their play and confidence, helped them in recruiting and kept players from leaving and Harbaugh from being fired.

Without the cheating Harbaugh never makes it to last season.
 
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If Michigan is not penalized by vacated/forfeited wins then every school that has ever had that penalty should be able to reclaim their wins. Almost all were penalized for lessor reasons than Michigan. These schools include Notre Dame, Ohio State, Bama, Ole Miss, LSU, USC, and Tennessee ... and probably more.
 
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If the roles were reversed and we'd won the NC, would we really care if people wanted to add an asterisk? I personally wouldn't care what other fan bases thought, and I feel fairly certain that Michigan fans are saying "add all the asterisks you want, we've got the trophy." Same as the barn fans said after the year of scam.
 
edwd58 said:
If the roles were reversed and we'd won the NC, would we really care if people wanted to add an asterisk? I personally wouldn't care what other fan bases thought, and I feel fairly certain that Michigan fans are saying "add all the asterisks you want, we've got the trophy." Same as the barn fans said after the year of scam.
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They don't care. But they are wrong, and so would we be. Integrity - it either matters or it doesn't.
 
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davefrat said:
Were they sign-stealing this season?

I honestly don't know.
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Does it matter? Their sign-stealing the past few years was the basis for their recent recruiting. Keep in mind that Harbaugh was put on notice after the 2019 season that he'd better turn things around--was even forced to take a pay cut.

They compiled a 2-4 record in 2020, but were bailed out by COVID.

Then they started stealing signs. And Lo! Their fortunes were changed!
 
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I think B1G Tide hit the nail on its head. Our standards have become so diminished that cheating is given a pass instead of being stomped on and stomped on hard! There is a decided lack of integrity now in business, in politiics, and in sports. Of course, I think the NCAA would have taken greater action had it been Alabama involved with these infringements. However, with it being Meegican or ND or OSU , NOTHING WILL BE SAID - EVER!
 
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B1GTide said:
They don't care. But they are wrong, and so would we be. Integrity - it either matters or it doesn't.
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You are right in principle that people should care. I kind of wish I did but I don't.

I think the NCAA doing nothing about $cam and AU in 2010 followed pretty closely by the Winston thing at FSU in 2013 along with the Heisman Committee honoring both kind of Broke me wrt to expecting anyone to do the right thing.

Plus I certainly didn't and don't expect Mich to be punished for Sign Stealing.

I mean (and everyone forgive me if I'm remembering wrong but) didn't Clemson get busted for this already a few years ago and nobody did anything then either.... so....🤷‍♂️

If I were in my 20's with extra energy to spare along with naivety I could probably get myself worked up about the whole thing.

But I'm in my mid 40's now and tired and past given up on people doing the just and fair thing in sports or any other aspect of life.
 
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tusks_n_raider said:
You are right in principle that people should care. I kind of wish I did but I don't.

I think the NCAA doing nothing about $cam and AU in 2010 followed pretty closely by the Winston thing at FSU in 2013 along with the Heisman Committee honoring both kind of Broke me wrt to expecting anyone to do the right thing.

Plus I certainly didn't and don't expect Mich to be punished for Sign Stealing.

I mean (and everyone forgive me if I'm remembering wrong but) didn't Clemson get busted for this already a few years ago and nobody did anything then either.... so....🤷‍♂️

If I were in my 20's with extra energy to spare along with naivety I could probably get myself worked up about the whole thing.

But I'm in my mid 40's now and tired and past given up on people doing the just and fair thing in sports or any other aspect of life.
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Clemson was apparently stealing signs during the games in real-time. That‘s not the same thing as what Michigan did, which is much worse. I don’t approve of either of them, btw.
 
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colbysullivan said:
Clemson was apparently stealing signs during the games in real-time. That‘s not the same thing as what Michigan did, which is much worse. I don’t approve of either of them, btw.
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If you don't want someone stealing your signs, then change them up. If we could do it in Little League, surely these adults can do it now.
 
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