The Birmingham Dome Issue
- Thread starter FitToBeTide
- Start date
Actually, it was quite funny. In the last election, ALL candidates for Jeffco council were vocally against the dome. What sunk Gary White was the people did not believe his protestations that he was against the dome - probably because he has a recorded vote for it. So he got his butt whipped big time.
There is almost no support for the dome outside of the city itself. MAPS, or no MAPS, it does not matter. Our bedroom communities do not want to be saddled with it for all of the reasons listed above. OTOH, some of the city pols really like the idea of the dome - primarily as far as I can see as a cash cow to siphon off into their own constituencies (see above) or into their own pockets. They see all of the money Chris McNair stole from the sewer project and the buckets of cash Arrington stole from - well from EVERYWHERE, and want their piece of the pie. So guys like Langford and Rogers keep pushing for this thing, although the public is not at all interested.
I have spent a lot of time in places with corrupt local governments (New Jersey, Boston, West Africa) and what has struck me is how similar the situation in Birmingham is to that in West Africa. In New York, New Jersey and Boston, when the locals set out to steal, they proposed a project, charged 10 times what it should have cost, cut the ribbon and walked away with 90% of the cash. But in the end the public got something from it. Perhaps the best example of this is a small courthouse built by Tammeny Hall and Boss Tweed at the beginning of the 20th century in lower Manhattan. It cost in excess of $10 million - roughly $2 billion in today's dollars. But even today, people admit that the design and craftsmanship were first rate. In contrast, here in Birmingham, things are more like what I have seen in Ivory Coast, Ghana and Burkina Faso in West Africa. There big projects are proposed and started, but the pols steal so much that nothing actually gets finished, or the work is so shoddy that the projects are condemned as soon as they are completed. This is more like what you see in Birmingham - witness a $6 billion hole to nowhere under the Cahaba River, courtesy of the Jeffco Sewer Commission or all of those electronic signs out on 65 and 459 that have never worked since they were installed. Guys, to quote of the pols in the Birmingham city government once said to a friend of mine who works closely with them, we understand that "It's our turn". If you are gonig to steal, so be it. But at least give us something that is practical and functional at the end. We deserve that much. And the dome will be neither practical or long lasting. It'll be like all of those projects I have seen in West Africa. And that's why people do not support it.
There is almost no support for the dome outside of the city itself. MAPS, or no MAPS, it does not matter. Our bedroom communities do not want to be saddled with it for all of the reasons listed above. OTOH, some of the city pols really like the idea of the dome - primarily as far as I can see as a cash cow to siphon off into their own constituencies (see above) or into their own pockets. They see all of the money Chris McNair stole from the sewer project and the buckets of cash Arrington stole from - well from EVERYWHERE, and want their piece of the pie. So guys like Langford and Rogers keep pushing for this thing, although the public is not at all interested.
I have spent a lot of time in places with corrupt local governments (New Jersey, Boston, West Africa) and what has struck me is how similar the situation in Birmingham is to that in West Africa. In New York, New Jersey and Boston, when the locals set out to steal, they proposed a project, charged 10 times what it should have cost, cut the ribbon and walked away with 90% of the cash. But in the end the public got something from it. Perhaps the best example of this is a small courthouse built by Tammeny Hall and Boss Tweed at the beginning of the 20th century in lower Manhattan. It cost in excess of $10 million - roughly $2 billion in today's dollars. But even today, people admit that the design and craftsmanship were first rate. In contrast, here in Birmingham, things are more like what I have seen in Ivory Coast, Ghana and Burkina Faso in West Africa. There big projects are proposed and started, but the pols steal so much that nothing actually gets finished, or the work is so shoddy that the projects are condemned as soon as they are completed. This is more like what you see in Birmingham - witness a $6 billion hole to nowhere under the Cahaba River, courtesy of the Jeffco Sewer Commission or all of those electronic signs out on 65 and 459 that have never worked since they were installed. Guys, to quote of the pols in the Birmingham city government once said to a friend of mine who works closely with them, we understand that "It's our turn". If you are gonig to steal, so be it. But at least give us something that is practical and functional at the end. We deserve that much. And the dome will be neither practical or long lasting. It'll be like all of those projects I have seen in West Africa. And that's why people do not support it.
bamaslammer said:
I hate to say it, but look at Nashville TN...I visited there on business weekly for over a year and a half, and during that time period I saw as transparent a city and county government as I could hope to see anywhere. They have two television channels on which all governmental meetings are televised, and every job opening within those governments is publicized. These channels also broadcast information concerning future meetings and council hearings and votes and decisions on varied issues. Additionally, any person or group is welcome to visit during any of those meetings and/or bring up any relevant issues in those meetings, provided they do so in a civil manner, and meet the proper criteria for the presentation of their issues of concern. The best interests of the city and the county and the wishes of it's residents are shown to be of the highest priority. The tv channels also carry ongoing up to date weather broadcasts and traffic information, as well as real-time video from the many traffic cameras strategically placed in and around the city. Many mornings and evenings I sat in my hotel room and watched the traffic in and around the city.
I also watched the weekly progress on a complete overhaul of their 4 interstate highways and the replacement or enhancement of several highway bridges in the area.
Tourism is welcomed and encouraged, as Nashville is a popular tourist destination. For this reason facilities for tourist convenience and safety abound. Many shopping malls in the area, including a huge mall adjacent to the Grand Ole Opry, provide shopping convenience, shelter and safety for thousands of visitors. Security personnel are on duty in these malls and patrol them, inside and out, on a 24/7 basis. Nashville also sports more than a fair share of restaurants, including not only fast food and meat+3's but a number of fine cuisine establishments.
Nashville is not sitting on it's thumbs waiting for a handout. It's leaders know the direction in which they want to go, and in that effort they are propelling it with all due diligence.
I think the reason for their governmental transparency is that the citizens demand accountability from all their elected officials, and make changes if and when they are deemed necessary.
I agree that as long as the voters of Birmingham continue to elect city and county officials based on race or entitlement mentality, those individuals whom they elect will continue to take every advantage available to the them. Thus the city of Birmingham will continue to lose it's population at an ever increasing rate.
As much as I hate to say it, this is one instance where Alabama could learn a very valuable lesson from Tennessee.
Titans&Tide said:
I agree 100% on that one. None of that Arena League stuff or XFL.
It would have to be an NFL team, plus get back the SECCG and maybe even add an NBA team to make it worthwhile.
Birmingham will never "get back" the SECCG. Maybe they'll share it, but they won't own it on a year-in year-out basis, regardless of a dome. But let's pretend they did. So you build a dome for the SECCG and some conventions? Oh, and Blazer football. Oh, and a motorcycle race here and there. No. LP Field in Nashville (aka the Coliseum) still has financial troubles even with the Titans. The scoreboard is now "outdated" because no one makes the bulbs it takes anymore. Any future improvements from new seats, new paint, etc. comes at the taxpayer expense if football doesn't make the money.
I understand B'hams desire to fancy themselves as a major Southern city with all the bells and whistles. I understand B'ham wishes to compare itself with Nashville, Atlanta, etc. When B'ham passed on the Delta hub many years ago and Delta took it to ATL, that jumpstarted Atlanta's growth. What can B'ham do? Well, simply adding a Bass Pro Shop and a motorcycle store won't cut it. Find some way to attract things to B'ham. Make yourself an option IF an NFL team decided to relocate (they won't expand unless it's L.A. and I still don't understand that obsession). But take first things first.
I understand B'hams desire to fancy themselves as a major Southern city with all the bells and whistles. I understand B'ham wishes to compare itself with Nashville, Atlanta, etc. When B'ham passed on the Delta hub many years ago and Delta took it to ATL, that jumpstarted Atlanta's growth. What can B'ham do? Well, simply adding a Bass Pro Shop and a motorcycle store won't cut it. Find some way to attract things to B'ham. Make yourself an option IF an NFL team decided to relocate (they won't expand unless it's L.A. and I still don't understand that obsession). But take first things first.
That's what UCF is doing in Orlando since the Citrus Bowl is waaaaay too big for them. It'll probably work out great for them too. First game they're playing in their new place is against Texas, so they'll kick it off right.CrimsonVictory said:
I'll probably get flamed for this big time, but here goes. It's a black vs. white issue. Look at Birmingham since Richard Arrington became mayor in 1979 and compare that to the rise of the suburbs. Birmingham has turned into a "chocolate city" and the white money isn't going to support it.
If you look at census numbers the city is no longer listed as Birmingham. It's now B'ham/Hoover metro area. I found that interesting the first time I saw it in print.
dayhiker said:
I wonder if Birmingham and Hoover are headed for a Gangs of New York style showdown?
http://www.hellobirmingham.com/Census.Cfm
They have the population percentage of the Metro area as 74.5 % Black, 24.1 % White. BTW, that possibly the most lopsided demographic in the southeast. New Orleans, Atlanta, Orlando, Nashville, Memphis, Jackson, Mobile, Montgomery, were all more balanced.
When you throw in Hoover, which has a population of about 69,000 now. It skews the percentages back the other direction.
-W$
They have the population percentage of the Metro area as 74.5 % Black, 24.1 % White. BTW, that possibly the most lopsided demographic in the southeast. New Orleans, Atlanta, Orlando, Nashville, Memphis, Jackson, Mobile, Montgomery, were all more balanced.
When you throw in Hoover, which has a population of about 69,000 now. It skews the percentages back the other direction.
-W$
cbi1972 said:
Who knows. However, Hoover is spending several million dollars to upgrade the Met so the SEC Baseball tournament will stay there. Hoover has a commitment to excellence that Birmingham doesn't have.
Keep in mind too that the Birmingham-Hoover Metro Area actually has SEVEN counties:
* Bibb
* Blount
* Chilton
* Jefferson
* St. Clair
* Shelby
* Walker
There is also a large amount of people from Tuscaloosa County that work in the B-H Metro Area too.
THEY ARE STILL TALKING ABOUT THIS? I remember hearing about this when i was in high school. and I graduated in 93. I remember Arrington was trying to get it built. they were still talking about it when i moved to Atlanta in 97. and it doesn't seem to want to go away. What purpose does a dome serve in Birmingham?
exbama21 said:
The rationale would be to help revitalize the city center, and replace the aging Legion Field. The problems are numerous.
I still like the idea of a dome. However, I'd be in favor of a somewhat scaled back arena. The BJCC is pretty much bursting at the seams, so some kind of expansion project is called for. Trust me, it will stay busy in conventions alone. If you toss in things like the SEC basketball tournament, possibly NCAA basketball regionals--you're in good shape.cbi1972 said:
I not as sure about a football-sized facility. If we still played games in Birmingham, then sure. But not now.
As I said, I like the idea of the dome. But I wouldn't trust the Birmingham government to build a puptent.
lowend said:
Lowend, you're basically telling it like it is. Bham proper has become nothing but a crime-ridden, concrete wasteland, with probably the majority of people that work there and spending time there being folks with civil service/government jobs. People like Larry Langford and others of his ilk are under the false illusion that a dome will revitalize downtown, and that "if we build it, they will come". Heck, they can't even fill up the BJCC for an event, what makes them think a dome will bring in anything? Besides, everyone I know avoids going downtown completely. IF a dome is ever built, and I don't think one should be or ever will be, it would make more sense to put it OUT in a surrounding county, like Shelby or even ST. Clair.
deliveryman35 said:
Or convert the stupid horse track, or dog track, or casino, or sweepstakes center, or whatever it is now.
I'd like to see a dome in the area...just not in downtown Birmingham. The city is crap and has been that way as long as I can remember (I'm 25). Dealing with the people that lived around legion field was almost always an unpleasent situation to say the least. And like many have already said, you cant trust the city politicians to do anything right. They only care about a certain group of the population. Anyways, I'm just putting in my 2 cents. I'm not saying anything that hasnt been said before.
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