The Church Thread: Chapter I Verse 2?

I think the point is more that humans cannot start wars then claim this is God's war. That matters because it seems like a big leap for those starting these wars to assume their decisions are biblical judgment.

I do think the pope could have been more clear in his wording though and I could be completely off.
The more I think about it, the more I believe this is likely the case. If this is the pope pushing back against Hegseth's attempts to paint the war in Iran in religious terms and using Christian rhetoric to justify it, I can see why. Still, he couldn't have worded his argument more poorly if he tried. Either way, he should probably explain himself before this gets any worse.
 
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Please forgive me if I'm off base here. I just find religion fascinating and like these conversations. I am far from an expert though and am obviously biased by my atheism.

Most of your examples seem to be God specifically rendering some form of judgment. Certainly that seems to be the case in Revelation.

Meanwhile, the Pope seems more focused on human initiated wars. That does not necessarily mean God has never initiated war or violence. I think the point is more that humans cannot start wars then claim this is God's war. To summarize, I think his point is that it is a big leap for those starting these wars to assume their decisions are biblical judgment, not that God can never issue judgment through violence.

I do think the pope could have been more clear in his wording though and I could be completely off.
The entire Book of Joshua wouldn't be strictly judgment. It is the carrying out of a command to conquer a land. Judges would be much the same, so would most of David's battles and conquests.

I understand the pope may have been talking about human wars, but his words don't match that at all. HIs statement, “He revealed the gentle face of God, who always rejects violence,” can't be squared with the Bible. I read the whole article from the Vatican link, and It doesn't hold water. How can the gentle face of God always reject violence while commanding violence and then carry out violence Himself if that judgment is rooted in violence? He's talking about a hippy God the Son Jesus Christ not the one actually in the Bible.

That verse out of Isaiah 1:15 is out of context. It sounds good but he's not following the meaning, and the part about meekness is wrong as well. The Greek word from the sermon on the mount that we can translate as meek isn't the current definition meek. It's the idea of power under control. It was a word often used of a war horse. It was a trained and powerful animal that was under control. I heard it also described as a description of a warrior that chooses to keep his sword sheathed until needed. That one is very similar to the war horse idea. The horse or warrior are under control but powerful when needed.
 
It is understandable how unbelievers can look at the lives of some Christians and never darken the door of a church. However, look at it like this. If someone was performing a cover of a great singer and mutilated the song, who would you blame, the person performing the cover or the band who orignially sang the song? I wouldn't make a judgment about Jesus based off of bad covers by people saying they are followers of Him.

I try to measure my faith not by what others around me do, but by what Christ and his apostles did and tell me to do. People let you down constantly.

You are both correct, and I realized that after some perspective and maturity not to tarnish God with sewage that a lot of people live in.

Unfortunately, in my formative years until my late 20s, I was surrounded by religious hypocrites, and I didn't have any faith role models. It's amazing how shameless some people can be when they've convinced themselves that God sanctions everything they do. By their actions,, so many people effectively said, "I'm a Christian, and God loves me, so every sinful/unethical/vile/vane thing I do is approved ... or at least forgivable. And I go to Church on Sunday, so I get hit the reset button." Cheat on a wife/girlfriend. Commit fraud. Hit a car in a parking lot and flee the scene. Lie regularly. Etc. Etc.

I would respond, "Well, I guess God must not be all-knowing and all-seeing if He can't decipher your nonsense. I don't care what you do, but don't pretend it's deity-sanctioned."

It sounds like your wife is a great lady.

Thank you. She is. Her capacity for compassion is seemingly limitless. She flew to Houston this past weekend to bring her sister Van back to live with us. (Lan's mom has lived with us since she emigrated a few years ago.) Van has health issues and wanted to be closer to family. And Lan is close to having the next couple of medical missions lined up. :love:
 
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The entire Book of Joshua wouldn't be strictly judgment. It is the carrying out of a command to conquer a land. Judges would be much the same, so would most of David's battles and conquests.

I understand the pope may have been talking about human wars, but his words don't match that at all. HIs statement, “He revealed the gentle face of God, who always rejects violence,” can't be squared with the Bible. I read the whole article from the Vatican link, and It doesn't hold water. How can the gentle face of God always reject violence while commanding violence and then carry out violence Himself if that judgment is rooted in violence? He's talking about a hippy God the Son Jesus Christ not the one actually in the Bible.

That verse out of Isaiah 1:15 is out of context. It sounds good but he's not following the meaning, and the part about meekness is wrong as well. The Greek word from the sermon on the mount that we can translate as meek isn't the current definition meek. It's the idea of power under control. It was a word often used of a war horse. It was a trained and powerful animal that was under control. I heard it also described as a description of a warrior that chooses to keep his sword sheathed until needed. That one is very similar to the war horse idea. The horse or warrior are under control but powerful when needed.
I do not have the knowledge to really rebut this on a specific scripture level. I still think we may be actually taking his comments out of context a bit considering this was a Palm Sunday sermon. Idk interesting to me either way
 
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I do not have the knowledge to really rebut this on a specific scripture level. I still think we may be actually taking his comments out of context a bit considering this was a Palm Sunday sermon. Idk interesting to me either way

If he didn't mean what he seemingly said, he sure did a great job of screwing it up. LOL!
 
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I do not have the knowledge to really rebut this on a specific scripture level. I still think we may be actually taking his comments out of context a bit considering this was a Palm Sunday sermon. Idk interesting to me either way
Doesn't matter when a sermon is preached it should follow the meaning of the passage that the person is preaching from. I expect more out of the pope than I do an old country preacher without the education that the pope has.
 
One of the most annoying things that converts routinely see are these cradle-Catholics who, despite going to Catholic school for 12 years and early catechesis, know next to nothing about church teaching. They show up twice per year (Christmas and Easter) and call themselves Catholic despite the fact that nothing in their life reflects it. And then with a straight face, want to blame the church for their ignorance.
This usually comes up when they get caught flat-footed by some Jehovah's Witness or fundamentalist door-knocker who converses with them about their beliefs and why their unsuspecting mark should come and see for themselves how to "find Jesus." And it often works, too. Next thing you know, they've joined up and now feel the need to go "save" the poor, deluded Catholics from the faith of their fathers by arguing against beliefs they never understood in the first place.

Anyway, every time I see some yutz who clearly isn't living according to Catholic teaching referring to himself or herself as Catholic, I just want to grab them by the lapels and scream, "STOP CALLING YOURSELF THAT!!" I can't do that, of course, but if a person isn't going to at least try to live to a certain standard, I wish they would just drop the word Catholic out of their vocabulary altogether.
"Catholic" just means "universal." In the UMC and other protestant denominations which use the Apostle's Creed weekly we avow that we believe in the catholic (little "c") church...
 
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"Catholic" just means "universal." In the UMC and other protestant denominations which use the Apostle's Creed weekly avow that they believe in the catholic (little "c") church...
Yep, my son is a Methodist and the Apostles Creed confused him a lot at first. He came to me and I explained the difference between "big C" Catholic and "little C" catholic. The other day, he texted me that he had questions and wanted to pick my brain about apostolic succession and the differences between prima scriptura and sola scriptura. Something tells me he is looking at a possible change if he's asking questions like this.
 

Paula White: You were betrayed and arrested and falsely accused. It's a familiar pattern that our Lord and Savior showed us. You will be victorious in all you put your hand to because God is using you.

That sounds a lot like when a church member wants something or something to go a certain way, and starts off the sentence with "The Lord told me...".
 
I've got a question for the thread. Who all is currently in weekly group Bible studies and what are y'all currently studying (a certain book of the Bible, topic, etc.)?

My friend and I are currently doing a dads and sons Bible study for highschool kids. We've got several dads and their sons who attend. We are currently teaching them how to defend their faith and the common questions and accusations they will get confronted with from non-believers.
 
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I've got a question for the thread. Who all is currently in weekly group Bible studies and what are y'all currently studying (a certain book of the Bible, topic, etc.)?

My friend and I are currently doing a dads and sons Bible study for highschool kids. We've got several dads and their sons who attend. We are currently teaching them how to defend their faith and the common questions and accusations they will get confronted with from non-believers.
I love apologetics. I've taught several classes along those lines to young people. I love to let them ask questions and then dig for answers. The more comfortable we are letting them ask hard questions and then seeking answers together the better off they are.

I've been studying about the crucifixion with a group of men. We've been digging into a lot of the details and talking about some of the people involved that we don't often talk about like Caiaphas, Annas, and Simon of Cyrene. It's been really good.
 
I love apologetics. I've taught several classes along those lines to young people. I love to let them ask questions and then dig for answers. The more comfortable we are letting them ask hard questions and then seeking answers together the better off they are.

I've been studying about the crucifixion with a group of men. We've been digging into a lot of the details and talking about some of the people involved that we don't often talk about like Caiaphas, Annas, and Simon of Cyrene. It's been really good.
I love apologetics as well. I've been in some men's small group Bible studies with some guys who've forgotten more about the Bible than I'll ever know. I try to pass on what they've taught me to other people who are interested, mainly young people.
 
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