The Decline of the DNC III

[Huckleberry]

What’s the current dim approval rating?

Do you mean the democrats? Not very good, but that's mostly from party member dissatisfaction. If/when the party gets itself together (hopefully before the midterms), that won't be a big issue. Trumpers will still hate the democrats, but that will never change.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

What’s the current dim approval rating?

Roughly half a degree from rock-bottom.

 

[crimsonaudio]

Dems approval rating is abysmal.

Congress Democrats see favorability ratings hit four-year low

New polling shows that just 30 percent of Americans hold a very or somewhat favorable view of Democrats in Congress.

www.newsweek.com

 

[selmaborntidefan]

I'll take a dozen Vances over one Trump. While Vance might be an abhorrent figure, there's no way he gets the loyalty/fear from other Republicans that allows him to govern virtually unfettered. I have doubts about him holding MAGA together as well.

Let me be clear: I don't doubt you for a second, and my suspicion is that Vance is trying (clumsily) to be this generation's mixture of George HW Bush (who was loathed by conservatives his eight years as VP but then got them for one election when Dukakis was the alternative) and Bill Clinton (an effort to almost be all things to all people). What I'm saying is, he probably: a) has more core conservative principles than Trump ever will; b) he's a vacillating amoeba trying to move up the ladder and inherit the MAGA rage of the GOP.

But having said that, just wait. Come 2028 it will be a common theme that WHOMEVER the GOP nominates is "worse than Trump", a chant that will emanate from Team Blue whether the nominee is Nikki Haley or Ron DeSantis or ANYONE else. I've lived through too damn many Presidential elections to think otherwise. (And I'll be shocked if there's a Democratic nominee who has the stand up conviction of John McCain taking the mic from the woman and saying, "Look, Candidate X and I have sincere and honest disagreements over the ways and the means of resolving problems, but Candidate X is not Donald Trump. He hasn't incited a riot. He hasn't (assuming this part is true) whined about stolen elections. He isn't a convicted felon. So while our disagreements are sharp and pointed, let's stop with this Candidate X is "worse" than Trump").

And even if there was a candidate who did that, what do you think would happen? Every mouthpiece in the Democratic Party (and especially Bernie Sanders, who isn't even a Democrat) would sharpen their knives with the "HOW DARE YOU say something nice about a Republican, abortion. women, something something." Then Senator Obama pointed out - ACCURATELY might I add - that in the 1980s, the Reagan Republican Party was seen as the party of ideas, which is 100% true. He did not endorse even one idea, but he made the point why the GOP was ascendant at the time. Hillary bored in on him like a prosecutor over that one.


So Huckleberry, I don't doubt YOU for a moment. And I don't doubt some others here who at times will or have either voted GYP and went, "I don't agree with him, but he's not a lunatic." But it will 100% be the party declaration that whomever is following Trump is "worse/more dangerous/more frightening than Trump."

And I just don't see how that's even possible at this point. It COULD be, but I doubt it.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

What’s the current dim approval rating?

It doesn't mater.

I don't know why anyone is focusing on the "national Democratic approval rating" for INDIVIDUAL races and thinking it means anything. It's as dumb as those polls saying, "Hillary leads Trump nationally by 3 points" and almost as dumb as Trump's apologists after the 2016 election saying, "The polls were all wrong" when Hillary won the NATIONAL VOTE by.....checks notes.....by 2.09 points, well within the margin of error.

The "polls were all wrong" was never true. They said Hillary led on Election Day NATIONALLY by 3 points with a 4 point MOE, and she won NATIONALLY by 2.09 points.

It was more true in 2020, but let's grant the pollsters some grace given they had no way to foretell the massive increase in turnout or to poll as accurately during a pandemic so fine.

But it won't matter.

I saw a poll in - I'm pretty sure - TIME Magazine back around September 2006 or so. It showed the disapproval ratings of the parties and the Dems were at 68% and the Republicans were at 69%. Using national logic, that's pretty much a wash, right?

Except it wasn't.
The Democrats picked up 31 seats in the House, 5 seats (plus Bernie Sanders) in the Senate, and six governor's races - and captured the House, the Senate, and the majority of the nation's governor's chairs (28 out of 58) in one night.

That's while having a disapproval rating only one point less than the GYP.

So I wouldn't derive comfort from "see, the Democrats poll terrible and "AOC couldn't win a race for Alabama governor" as my logic.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

It doesn't mater.

I don't know why anyone is focusing on the "national Democratic approval rating" for INDIVIDUAL races and thinking it means anything. It's as dumb as those polls saying, "Hillary leads Trump nationally by 3 points" and almost as dumb as Trump's apologists after the 2016 election saying, "The polls were all wrong" when Hillary won the NATIONAL VOTE by.....checks notes.....by 2.09 points, well within the margin of error.

The "polls were all wrong" was never true. They said Hillary led on Election Day NATIONALLY by 3 points with a 4 point MOE, and she won NATIONALLY by 2.09 points.

It was more true in 2020, but let's grant the pollsters some grace given they had no way to foretell the massive increase in turnout or to poll as accurately during a pandemic so fine.

But it won't matter.

I saw a poll in - I'm pretty sure - TIME Magazine back around September 2006 or so. It showed the disapproval ratings of the parties and the Dems were at 68% and the Republicans were at 69%. Using national logic, that's pretty much a wash, right?

Except it wasn't.
The Democrats picked up 31 seats in the House, 5 seats (plus Bernie Sanders) in the Senate, and six governor's races - and captured the House, the Senate, and the majority of the nation's governor's chairs (28 out of 58) in one night.

That's while having a disapproval rating only one point less than the GYP.

So I wouldn't derive comfort from "see, the Democrats poll terrible and "AOC couldn't win a race for Alabama governor" as my logic.

I had to chuckle at your Clinton remark. It reminded me of a saying or rumor about Julius Caesar, current during his truncated reign, and when sexual mores were quite different from today, particularly as to same-sex activity. "Julius Caesar, a husband to every wife and a wife to every husband."

 

[jthomas666]

My wife loves to see the changing colors in the Fall, something that doesn't happen in Vietnam. When we lived in Virginia, the Shenandoah Valley was a nice drive, but it doesn't compare to New England. We've wanted to go to see NE in the Fall but could never coordinate our schedules. One day. When Lan first saw all the changing colors, she said the leaves looked like flavored Jell-o. She still calls them Jell-o trees.

I don't miss much about Pennsylvania, but I do miss the fall colors.

 

[AWRTR]

Let me be clear: I don't doubt you for a second, and my suspicion is that Vance is trying (clumsily) to be this generation's mixture of George HW Bush (who was loathed by conservatives his eight years as VP but then got them for one election when Dukakis was the alternative) and Bill Clinton (an effort to almost be all things to all people). What I'm saying is, he probably: a) has more core conservative principles than Trump ever will; b) he's a vacillating amoeba trying to move up the ladder and inherit the MAGA rage of the GOP.

But having said that, just wait. Come 2028 it will be a common theme that WHOMEVER the GOP nominates is "worse than Trump", a chant that will emanate from Team Blue whether the nominee is Nikki Haley or Ron DeSantis or ANYONE else. I've lived through too damn many Presidential elections to think otherwise. (And I'll be shocked if there's a Democratic nominee who has the stand up conviction of John McCain taking the mic from the woman and saying, "Look, Candidate X and I have sincere and honest disagreements over the ways and the means of resolving problems, but Candidate X is not Donald Trump. He hasn't incited a riot. He hasn't (assuming this part is true) whined about stolen elections. He isn't a convicted felon. So while our disagreements are sharp and pointed, let's stop with this Candidate X is "worse" than Trump").

And even if there was a candidate who did that, what do you think would happen? Every mouthpiece in the Democratic Party (and especially Bernie Sanders, who isn't even a Democrat) would sharpen their knives with the "HOW DARE YOU say something nice about a Republican, abortion. women, something something." Then Senator Obama pointed out - ACCURATELY might I add - that in the 1980s, the Reagan Republican Party was seen as the party of ideas, which is 100% true. He did not endorse even one idea, but he made the point why the GOP was ascendant at the time. Hillary bored in on him like a prosecutor over that one.


So Huckleberry, I don't doubt YOU for a moment. And I don't doubt some others here who at times will or have either voted GYP and went, "I don't agree with him, but he's not a lunatic." But it will 100% be the party declaration that whomever is following Trump is "worse/more dangerous/more frightening than Trump."

And I just don't see how that's even possible at this point. It COULD be, but I doubt it.

My favorite line in this vein was when Biden told an African American audience that Mitt Romney of all people was going to, “put y’all back in chains.” It was Mitt Romney for God’s sake. He’s the most non threatening dude ever. That was just nonsense. Everyone is Hitler and everyone is a racist has worn thin with the electorate as a whole.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

My favorite line in this vein was when Biden told an African American audience that Mitt Romney of all people was going to, “put y’all back in chains.”

Yes, the guy who later boasted about working with segregationists......I had a black pastor friend who worked with me, and he thought "put y'all in chains" was about as repulsive a comment as he'd heard. Of course, he then voted for Obama so it's not like it hurt for real.

And remember - Joe Biden is the exact same guy who told Charlamagne tha God that if you didn't know if you were for Trump or Biden, "ya ain't black."

But remember: it's (D)ifferent. That's all it takes to understand why it's suddenly okay.

It was Mitt Romney for God’s sake. He’s the most non threatening dude ever. That was just nonsense.

"But see, Romney was in the Mormon church when they excluded blacks, something something."

Everyone is Hitler and everyone is a racist has worn thin with the electorate as a whole.

I know. The days when Bill Clinton could sign the death warrant of a lobotomized black man so unaware of his surroundings he saved his dessert from his last meal "for later" and send him to his death, play at an all-white country club in Little Rock, and kick Jesse Jackson square in the nards with the Sister Souljah incident while telling the whole country he was going to "end welfare as we know it" are over.

But not if it's (D)ifferent.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

While I think much of the criticism of Team Blue is somewhat misguided (no, folks, their national approval rating doesn't mean much), I try to simply hit the hard points. OK, so here's one to chew on:

YOU DON'T GET TO WHINE ABOUT BEING CALLED SOCIALISTS WHEN YOU KEEP ENDORSING SOCIALISTS

Minneapolis. They have a two-term incumbent DFL Mayor named Jacob Frey. He was a civil rights lawyer and has obviously won twice. But rather than take a non-endorsement position as they have for the past 16 years, the Minnesota DFL has endorsed his opponent, Somali-American Muslim Omar Fateh. Fateh is also a socialist, not in the "Republicans say this guy is a socialist sense" but in the ACTUAL "I am a socialist" sense.

I'm sure the fact Frey is Jewish had nothing to do with the sudden DFL endorsement

Look, it doesn't make much difference to me which liberal idiot leads Minneapolis. I just find the timing and the sudden "we're gonna endorse this guy" amusing and particularly when you have another socialist running in NYC. (At least there I understand it with the problems both the incumbent mayor and the former governor present for voters).

Frey's big sin appears to be he wouldn't defund the police.

Well.....and one other thing.....

 

[selmaborntidefan]

And here's the other one.....I copied and pasted the article because sometimes access to NYT articles is limited so subscribers. Plus, it was short. Like me.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/19/us/politics/democrats-2024-autopsy-harris-biden.html

The Democratic National Committee’s examination of what went wrong in the 2024 election is expected to mostly steer clear of the decisions made by the Biden-turned-Harris campaign and will focus more heavily instead on actions taken by allied groups, according to interviews with six people briefed on the report’s progress.

Translation: they're going to blame George Clooney and the donors. Way to go, folks!

The audit, which the committee is calling an “after-action review,” is expected to avoid the questions of whether former President Joseph R. Biden Jr. should have run for re-election in the first place, whether he should have exited the race earlier than he did and whether former Vice President Kamala Harris was the right choice to replace him, according to the people briefed on the process so far.

And here I thought an AUTOPSY was supposed to ascertain all possible causes of death, make a determination if possible, and leave open for interpretation if not certain. This appears to me to be like a pathologist being told, "Here's the body but under no circumstances do you inform us how many exit wounds exist for the bullets or the direction or even the number."

Nor is the review expected to revisit key decisions by the Harris campaign — like framing the election as a choice between democracy and fascism, and refraining from hitting back after an ad by Donald J. Trump memorably attacked Ms. Harris on transgender rights by suggesting that she was for “they/them” while Mr. Trump was “for you” — that have roiled Democrats in the months since Mr. Trump took back the White House.

One simple statement was all:
"While I am all for LGBTQ rights - as my record shows - I am not in favor of allowing post-pubescent boys who have transitioned to girls competing on the same athletic field with girls."

And Harris got the "democracy vs fascism" talking points by listening to and believing the rant of her own party over the previous four years. And her party had a legit point...right up until they overturned democracy and chose to replace the guy who got all the votes in the primaries.

Oh and unless the autopsy says, "Voters didn't like finding out we had been lying to them for awhile about Biden," it's not a true autopsy anyway.

 

[jthomas666]

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/19/us/politics/democrats-2024-autopsy-harris-biden.html

The audit, which the committee is calling an “after-action review,” is expected to avoid the questions of whether former President Joseph R. Biden Jr. should have run for re-election in the first place, whether he should have exited the race earlier than he did and whether former Vice President Kamala Harris was the right choice to replace him, according to the people briefed on the process so far.

They're going to avoid questioning the choices that most directly led to their loss. SMH.

While I do think that Democrats really want to make America better, the simple truth is that their leadership has been braindead since Obama's second term.

 

[81usaf92]

They're going to avoid questioning the choices that most directly led to their loss. SMH.

While I do think that Democrats really want to make America better, the simple truth is that their leadership has been braindead since Obama's second term.

The problem is that in 2016 they really went all in with Hillary and thought Trump couldn’t win. Then 20 and 24 were just “anybody but Trump “ picks.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

They're going to avoid questioning the choices that most directly led to their loss. SMH.

Thing is, this is much more difficult in terms of "what should we have done about it that would work" than it is "what COULD we have done differently," which has many answers. A common theme on this board is, "Well, Biden should have announced he was stepping aside after the midterms."

Yes, the guy should have said, "Let me be a lame duck here for the next two years," got it. I also - and this is just my personal opinion - think "he's too baked to run but he can still launch the nukes to start WW3" was just a bad look.

While I do think that Democrats really want to make America better, the simple truth is that their leadership has been braindead since Obama's second term.

I agree with this, and the latter is a problem they share with the GYP. I think the Democrats made a serious mistake - one that just looking at the local election results should have told them - of thinking when the followed the "near miss" of 2004 by seizing control of all but the White House in 2006 and then booster rocketed to 60 (theoretical with the Coleman recount) seats in 2008 that all of a sudden the whole world loved them and they could get away with anything. Well, almost anything.

They persuaded themselves (as the GYP has done) that "because of shifting demographics and the GYP being an all-white party, we may never have a Republican President ever again." And because they had so many Senate seats to their advantage, they thought it was forever. A normal party might say - when no-name Scott Brown won the special election to replace liberal lion Teddy in MASSA-freaking-CHUSETTS - that "hey, maybe this big advantage isn't as big as we thought."

I may be wrong, but I think the GYP is sitting in those same shoes right now. Trumpism doesn't really work without Forrest Trump running. Sure, in some local house races where the dumbest poster on Tidefans could win if he (has to be a HE) was extreme enough, but it doesn't "really" work to maintain enough.

Obama did not party build and they're paying the price, and he didn't make taking an omerta oath the price of admission. Trump has knocked down load bearing walls in his own party like a deranged psycho while demanding loyalty liable to send some lesser lights to the Iron Hotel in the future.


But the biggest lie Team Blue is telling RIGHT NOW is to themselves, too. I also expect some sort of "this is a racist and sexist country and we knew it before the election," which will beg the obvious question as to why you threw her out there.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

The problem is that in 2016 they really went all in with Hillary and thought Trump couldn’t win.

Well now, I can't exactly say the Democrats were alone in that assessment......and in 2020, let's give them credit, they threw in with Biden unenthusiastically convinced he was the one guy who could beat Trump (that was running).

 

[CrimsonJazz]

I’ll just leave this little nugget for discussion for all especially the “Biden was blamed for everything.” Curse words are blocked out. Anyone wondering about the state of the democrat party enjoy. Hunter Biden: The gift that keeps on giving:

Hunter Biden unloads on George Clooney, Jake Tapper, Democratic Party

Hunter Biden, the son of former President Joe Biden, slammed Democratic Party elites and high-profile people in an interview.

www.newsweek.com

To quote Rick James, “Cocaine is a helluva drug.” I’m thinking Hunter helped himself to a bump or two before starting that interview. His take on immigration got even dumber than his whining about the Dems.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

I think it's hilarious that anyone thinks anyone in this country votes on the basis of something Hunter Biden did or has ever done.

"Gift that keeps giving?"
Really?

Because I'm pretty sure I recall the GYP losing the House in 18, the White House and Senate in 20 thanks to two runoffs IN GEORGIA, and underperforming in the midterms in 22, to say nothing of the millions killed by a botched pandemic handling.

And responsibility for that lies squarely on the shoulders of the other drug addicted whoremonger, the one whose hairpiece looks like the dead skin of a bobcat that was hanging from my grandfather's garage in 1974.

 

[Its On A Slab]

drug addicted whoremonger, the one whose hairpiece looks like the dead skin of a bobcat that was hanging from my grandfather's garage in 1974.

A critic once described singer Tom Waits's voice as "soaked in a vat of bourbon, left hanging in the smokehouse for a few months and then taken outside and run over with a car."

In response, Waits replied, "Flattery will get you nowhere."

 

[CrimsonJazz]

I think it's hilarious that anyone thinks anyone in this country votes on the basis of something Hunter Biden did or has ever done.

I doubt anyone thinks that. The sad truth is actually far, far worse and that truth is this: either party could run a brain-damaged monkey and it would still get 60 million votes easily. I have been consistent about blaming the voters over the corruptible clowns they elect. That's not to say I don't criticize everyone in D.C.; everyone knows I do.

I look at NYC and a dark part of me kinda hopes Mamdani wins. I think it would make a statement to watch that city burn and if I thought for a second that Trump had the stones to let that happen, I'd be a little more vocal about how I want that mayoral race to go. Sometimes ya gotta let em touch the hot stove. Call it tough love.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

I doubt anyone thinks that. The sad truth is actually far, far worse and that truth is this: either party could run a brain-damaged monkey and it would still get 60 million votes easily. I have been consistent about blaming the voters over the corruptible clowns they elect. That's not to say I don't criticize everyone in D.C.; everyone knows I do.

I look at NYC and a dark part of me kinda hopes Mamdani wins. I think it would make a statement to watch that city burn and if I thought for a second that Trump had the stones to let that happen, I'd be a little more vocal about how I want that mayoral race to go. Sometimes ya gotta let em touch the hot stove. Call it tough love.

I'm probably about the furthest thing on this board from a leftist liberal. I don't mean Amy Klobuchar, I mean AOC.

But part of me deep down really HOPES that the Democrats:
a) nominate a left-wing nut who drives the GYP crazy
b) that nut actually wins (which is better than average chance if Trump tanks the economy)

It's not that I look forward to living under such a President. I just want that President to do all of the childish, stupid, moronic, pick a fight just to be a jerk stuff that this current clown has spent the last decade doing and watching the GYP lose their collective intestinal contents daily with phony outrage on something that never bothered them previously. (Granted - watching the hypocrisy of Democrats who have cried like stuck pigs for a decade suddenly defending the indefensible would be worth the price of admission, too. Just like with the GYP there'd be a few who would draw the line and end their own political careers).