Bosnia was horrible but doesn't come close to the holocaust, before, after and continuing.
Trump Attacks Iran, IV
- Thread starter Tidewater
- Start date
Having read the MOU, two points stand out.
1. A really bad deal for the US. Why head down this path if this is the destination?
2. It is time for the US to remind the recipients of US aid who the client is and who the patron is, but stopping US aid if need be.
1. A really bad deal for the US. Why head down this path if this is the destination?
2. It is time for the US to remind the recipients of US aid who the client is and who the patron is, but stopping US aid if need be.
Regarding aid to other countries, I see the issue as whether the real adversary presents a threat to us — directly or indirectly.
For example, Hezbollah is a gnat in our ear. Let Israel handle it on their own dime. Yes, I understand why Israel is war-making mad at them. I understand the atrocities of 20 months ago. That doesn’t mean I want us to get involved in their retribution.
Ukraine is another story. We have a chance to grind the Russian economy and war-making ability to dust for generations to come, yet have the Ukrainians do the fighting and bleeding. In addition to which, we get Ukraine’s expertise in drone offense and defense — the future of warfare.
All we have to do is send all the munitions and artillery we can churn out and other materiel that we’re about to throw away. Send every bullet, shell, and old tank we have.
But no. We’ve assumed responsibility for Israel’s actions AND told Russia’s enemies (and Putin) that we won’t help if Russia attacks.
I’m pulling my hair out.
For example, Hezbollah is a gnat in our ear. Let Israel handle it on their own dime. Yes, I understand why Israel is war-making mad at them. I understand the atrocities of 20 months ago. That doesn’t mean I want us to get involved in their retribution.
Ukraine is another story. We have a chance to grind the Russian economy and war-making ability to dust for generations to come, yet have the Ukrainians do the fighting and bleeding. In addition to which, we get Ukraine’s expertise in drone offense and defense — the future of warfare.
All we have to do is send all the munitions and artillery we can churn out and other materiel that we’re about to throw away. Send every bullet, shell, and old tank we have.
But no. We’ve assumed responsibility for Israel’s actions AND told Russia’s enemies (and Putin) that we won’t help if Russia attacks.
I’m pulling my hair out.
well when there never was an objective for going into a meaningless war then this is what you get.
Yep. You start with the policy objectives ("We want to achieve this, and this, and this."), and then apply ways and means to get to them.
I think by the end, Trump was desperate to have a deal and the Iranians knew it. Then he put Vance in charge of the negotiations and Vance, I suspect, had never wanted to start the conflict to begin with, so he was willing to sign any deal to end it.
The problem is that, once a nation engages in violence, you cannot get the toothpaste back in the tube.
vance also does not seem to be very bright. he claims to have been confused by the iranian negotiators
I can’t link it due to how British language usually slips in a word or two, but warfronts by Simon Whistler makes the case that most of this conflict was initiated because Trump was convinced that the Venezuela could be effectively be replicated in Iran. Yet most of his senior military leadership and his cabinet told him Israelis over sell situations like no other country. So the idea going in was probably regime change with no boots on the ground but they found out it wasn’t going to happen.
Interestingly enough, Whistler makes the case that Khamenei might have threatened nuclear breakout, but in his decades of rule never committed to it and for the most part kept the hardliners in the IRGC in check. Now that he is dead, the IRGC has far more of a say at the top and Iran is probably closer to nuclear aspirations than it ever was before in history because Iran is now more likely to resemble a military dictatorship.
I think this is by far the dumbest war that the US has ever gotten involved in. Yes it was an overwhelming tactical success but it was a complete strategic failure at every level of it.
What better way to encourage Iran’s development of nukes?
You either start a war intending to do whatever is needed to achieve your goals or you stay out of it.
I also think that airpower advocates always oversell what airpower alone can do, and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff now is an airman.
Airpower is great, but it is difficut to effect regime change from the air.
100% agreement... We are making fools out of ourselves. We could bleed Russia dry by helping the Ukranians and remove them from the table for years and our president is kowtowing to Putin at every turn and calling him his buddy.
And Israel has turned itself into even more of a world pariah, but continues to play us like a Stradivarius.
And then putting Vance, Witkoff, and Jared in control of all of these negotiations when they 100% lack the ability, understanding, gut, effort, etc., etc., etc., and get pawned every durned time is just disgusting, enraging, and disheartening.
We have fallen greatly in our world standing. We have spurned our allies in Western Europe and the Pac Rim... We have dismantled our biomedical research facilities that greatly enhanced our private industry to the point it would take a decade to recover and they aren't done with the destruction... We have damaged our belief in voting and democracy... Amongst this and all the other issues, I just don't see how anyone can objectively look at this mess and think there is any good coming out of it.
Well they have a history of that dating back to Lemay but from all reporting Caine tried to talk him out of it.
I have my issues with Caine, 1) he was mostly a NG officer his career 2) he put on the 4th star when he was appointed to COJC and 3) he was retired when he was confirmed. But I think Caine has been more level headed on most military engagements than most.
There are reasons why we arent helping Ukraine and helping Israel...
1) Trump fancies himself as a dictator and Putin likely has the Epstein goods on Trump,
2) Israel has the Epstein goods on Trump and is using it as leverage against Iran to maximum effect.
Its beginning to look like the only people who dont have the Epstein goods on Trump are the American people. Trump is trying mightily to distract the American people with his arrogance and war. And we are letting him win.
For him MAGA means, Make America Grovel Again.
1) Trump fancies himself as a dictator and Putin likely has the Epstein goods on Trump,
2) Israel has the Epstein goods on Trump and is using it as leverage against Iran to maximum effect.
Its beginning to look like the only people who dont have the Epstein goods on Trump are the American people. Trump is trying mightily to distract the American people with his arrogance and war. And we are letting him win.
For him MAGA means, Make America Grovel Again.
Good points. I do not say that to disparage airmen generally, just that they tend to view war in sterile terms (when war is actually very messy) and this makes them overly optimistic.
Bernie Sanders: This is not a normal statement from a normal cabinet member of a major nation. This statement from Israeli National Security Minister Ben-Gvir is the statement of a war criminal. The racist, extremist Israeli government does not deserve one nickel of U.S. support.
CAN I get an AMEN!
In this case:
1. We didn't define victory before we went in.
2. When Iran proved a tougher nut to crack than we anticipated, we started worrying about optics.
If we care enough to put our servicemen and women in harm's way, we shouldn't care one whit about optics. If we're worried about optics, we shouldn't put our servicemen and women in harm's way.
Fine, have at it, Israel, do it yourself, and leave us out of it. Bring the boys home, and let Israel fight their own battle for a change. God is not even on their side because they rejected his Son. It is time for Americans to reject them as well.
Makes you wonder what religious fanatics we should keep nuclear weapons from.
I don't think the Israelis' are particularly religious. IIRC some 80% of the Jews in Israel are secular Jews, not religiously observant.
best deal evar
www.nbcnews.com
U.S. launches strikes against Iran following attack on ship in Strait of Hormuz
A U.S. aircraft struck Iranian missile and drone storage locations as well as coastal radar sites on Friday, U.S. Central Command said.
www.nbcnews.com
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