Where did “throw out the record books” come from when talking about the Iron Bowl?

[selmaborntidefan]

Re: Where did “throw out the record books” come from when talking about the Iron Bowl

It's completely understandable why Shula would have said that, too.

Prior to 1982 - the year before he came to UA - Alabama had beaten Auburn ten straight times.....going back to 1972 when Mike was 7 years old. HIS PERSONAL EXPERIENCE began with, "We beat Auburn." Then we lose in Bryant's last game, lose in Shula's first year (with Walter Lewis at QB), and then WIN a game we had no business being close and then win probably the biggest non-title moment in Alabama history on Tiffin's kick, where Shula led the drive.


Entering Shula's first Iron Bowl as coach, we had actually been 10-11 in the previous 21 meetings with Auburn, and he'd been there firsthand for TWO Alabama underdogs (84 and 85) to win and one (86) to lose.

So Shula saying that is at least understandable.



I don't understand most other quotes on this game at all. They're nonsense.



One more thing for those of you who have been Tide fans longer than some of us.

YES, there were games where Auburn "upset" us in that the favorite lost the game. And 1972 was two lightning bolts in a matter of minutes and yes, we SHOULD have won the game. But that's not really what's being said here. Auburn's wins in 1972, 2010, and 2013 in particular were VERY GOOD TEAMS beating very good Alabama teams. They weren't 0-11 Northwestern of the early 1980s stunning #1 Alabama.

THAT'S what's being said here. The unfortunate truth is that a number of Tide fans begin with the assumption, "Auburn isn't any good" and build their analysis and experience around that.

Some of us are beholden to data. I understand the emotion expended, but let's see:


1972 - a one-loss #9 Auburn team beats Alabama by one point.

By NO RATIONAL measurement is that some catastrophic event like us losing to ULM. Yes, the WAY it was done was something else, but it's simply not very shocking at all.

2013 - #4 Auburn beats #1 Alabama at home by six points.

Again - NOT shocking by any rational criteria. A painful loss and stunning in its execution?
Yes.


But not Chaminade beating UVA with Sampson, either.

 

[squib]

Re: Where did “throw out the record books” come from when talking about the Iron Bowl

Say a thing enough times and people start repeating it as truth.

Others:

"Defense wins championships."

"There are only three things that can happen on a pass, and two of them are bad."

"It's better to have a team full of 3 stars that bleed for the jersey than a team of 5 stars that don't."

 

[jashleyren2]

Re: Where did “throw out the record books” come from when talking about the Iron Bowl

This game just has so much at stake for both teams every year. I'm not talking about national title implications or even conference title implications. All of the in-state recruits are there, and, frequently, a coach's job is in question. The Alabama Media loves a coaching controversy. Malzahn has been their target this year, and before that it was Tuberville, then Chizik, and so on and so forth. It's got big stakes. It means a lot to a state that has no pro football team. And people that can become very very passionate about their favorite team. RIP Tammy.

While it's true that the "better" team usually wins, when the slight underdog does win, it's almost always in dramatic fashion. 2010. 2013. 1985. Even further back. Alabama was the better team even last season, but injuries dropped us to a shell of ourselves. Jalen was way off his usual performance and just could not get the offense into rhythm. The game is big, and I don't even know how folks in Columbus or Ann Arbor, both states with pro teams and MUCH larger populations, can understand it. Not understating how big that game, particularly this season. Their passionate fanbases, the true fans and alumni, probably have just as much hatred. My Penn State friends don't have a lot of love for THE OSU either, but I think that comes from a place of jealousy...Just my opinion.

I will say this. I have lived in Alabama most of my life, except for brief stints in North Carolina and Georgia. Friends of mine from childhood still contact me during this week, with nervousness about the game, even though, from the outside, Alabama should win easily. They know it won't be easy. 2009 saw a MUCH better Bama team have to come from behind. It's games like that, which keep you on the edge of your seat and make most of us NEVER take this game lightly. I don't think our players will either. ROLL TIDE and beat the BARN!!

 

[bamamc1]

Re: Where did “ throw out the record books” come from when talking about the Iron Bow

 

[teamplayer]

Re: Where did “throw out the record books” come from when talking about the Iron Bowl

I’ve been reading Al.com and a few other sites, and have found a common theme. There are are several articles and posts that blast the idea of a 3 td point spread. Always stating that the Iron Bowl is a game where “ you can throw out the record books”. I looked it up and only once since the 1950’s has a double digit favorite lost out right (1984). How people beat this saying into the ground you would think it was an unpredictable game like tOSU-Michigan in which big favorites losing isn’t that uncommon.

But 1984 is the only IB I can find that a team with no business winning that game won. All other “upsets” were between teams with similar records and talent.

I think it really is more about the intensity of the game and how close it often is even when one team seems to be the solid favorite. It used to seem like every single play was played with such intensity because the game just might be determined by the outcome of the next play. I think this is a game that people hate losing more than they enjoy winning.

 

[CrimsonNagus]

Re: Where did “ throw out the record books” come from when talking about the Iron Bow

I love the over dramatic hand signals from refs in old games. You don't get that these days because they just turn the mic on and talk more. When AU misses the FG, the wide left signal from the ref makes me laugh. It's so big and exaggerated, just in case we all couldn't see how wide left the ball was, he made sure his signal scream "really wide left".

 

[uafan4life]

Re: Where did “ throw out the record books” come from when talking about the Iron Bow

I haven't read the whole thread but the shortest answer to the OP's question is "Out of somebody's butt."

 

[Loam]

Re: Where did “ throw out the record books” come from when talking about the Iron Bow

You heard that said in all sports, not just the Iron Bowl or other College rivalry games. You hear that said when the Cowboys play the Redskins or when the Yankees play the Red Sox or when the Lakers play the Celtics.

 

[RT27]

Re: Where did “ throw out the record books” come from when talking about the Iron Bow

From some idiot who saw one or two upsets. Fact is if you look at the history of the game most are won by the team favored. Because it is a rivalry and they need viewers, they down play the 24 pt spread to make it sound like auburn is really going to challenge us. Chances are Tua rips them a new one, and our D kills stidham and they have no real run game. Fact is this will be like every other game after the 1st qrt. Settle in and watch Bama just eat them alive. They can throw out the record book, but like all other SEC teams we have a winning record over the barn for a reason. We have won and lost some when we should not have, but for the most part the better team wins, as is always the case.

 

[tattooguy21]

Re: Where did “throw out the record books” come from when talking about the Iron Bowl

I don't know if you guys have watched the last 10 years or so, I'd say that the red river shootout has been the best example. Yes, there were some blow out years, but other years Texas, who have been trending down since 09, gave OU everything they could handle, if not beat them outright.

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[selmaborntidefan]

Re: Where did “ throw out the record books” come from when talking about the Iron Bow

OK, while I'm not a historian or full-fledged researcher, here's some good stuff.

The earliest I can find the phrase "throw out the records" is a 1936 newspaper previewing the Brooklyn Dodgers's hopes for success in the upcoming season. We are told regarding two particular pitchers to "throw out the records" because these two pitchers are better than their stats show.

There's an article from 2/21/39 regarding predictions for the Kentucky Derby where the author says you can "throw out the records" of horses as two-year old competitors because they can improve substantially, an astute observation. (Note: I actually found this in a previous horse racing context in the Jacksonville Illinois Daily Courier of January 9, 1904). So 1904 is actually the earliest use I've found in a sports context.

(Most occurrences of this phrase are in a legal context).



The first specific college football reference I can find in a newspaper is from the Fairborn Daily Herald of November 18, 1952 with a wire story stating that although Woody Hayes's Ohio State Buckeyes are statistical underdogs to Michigan, they will "throw out the records" come game time.
Another paper (Marysville Evening Journal in Marysville, Ohio) cites the same wire service story mentioned but cites the author as Tony Galli of the International News Service.


The cliche is then found in the following college football contexts:

1954 - Stanford/Cal game (Nampa, ID Free Press, 11/17)
1957 - Army/Navy (Uniontown Evening Standards, 11/30)


In 1958, there's an article in the Doylestown Intelligencer calling "throw out the records" a "worn out sports phrase" to describe "traditional rivalries," which is dead on accurate.

1960 - Stanford/Cal (Oakland Tribune, 11/18/60) - it calls this "one of the greatest if not the greatest rivalries in college athletics." (This is 22 years before the five laterals through the percussion section). This is also in the Salt Lake Tribune. Truly hilarious fact for history? Cal entered that game at 1-7-1 while Stanford was 0-9. A GREAT RIVALRY!!!


1962 - Army/Navy (Hanover, PA Evening Sun, 11/21)

1964 - USC/UCLA (Press Telegram, Long Beach, CA, 11/20)

1965 - Ohio St/Michigan (Findlay Republican Courier, Findlay, OH, 11/16/65)

1970 - USC/Notre Dame (Terre Haute Tribune, 11/26)
1970 - Army/Navy


1971 - Michigan/Ohio State - Bo after the game talking about it in an interview (12/21)

1972 - Navy/Air Force (Colorado Springs Gazette, 10/20)

1972 - LSU/Ole Miss (Auburn coach)
1972 - Ole Miss/MSU (Delta Democrat)
1972 - Arizona/Arizona St (Scottsdale Progress)


Incidentally, the usage of this cliche grows with each decade until newspapers are replaced by websites:

2010's (139)
2000's (376)
1990's (333)
1980's (274)
1970's (210)
1960's (54)
1950's (26)
1940's (3)
1930's (13)
1920's (1)


I'm through 1972. More later, but this cliche seems MOST COMMON in the Ohio/Pennsylvania/Michigan areas - which may explain how it got applied so often to Army/Navy.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

Re: Where did “ throw out the record books” come from when talking about the Iron Bow

You heard that said in all sports, not just the Iron Bowl or other College rivalry games. You hear that said when the Cowboys play the Redskins or when the Yankees play the Red Sox or when the Lakers play the Celtics.

It's true, we've heard the cliche but 81s point (that he and I make about this game every year) is.....WHY would anyone apply this to the Iron Bowl?

Baseball and basketball don't lend themselves to this hackneyed cliche quite so much because they play entire series' with each other. Football is a one and done game. (I'm not disputing the application you cite, but this tends to be used in football most often).

There are very few MINOR upsets in the Iron Bowl. I'll grant that 1972 and 2010 were upsets in the sense that the underdog won, but it wasn't like 1984.

FWIW - here are published betting lines in a few cases for the Iron Bowl:


The 1972 line is set at "between 1 and 2 touchdowns." Newspapers not so fond of printing actual betting lines back then, heh heh.

However, the rest are all Vegas lines. The above comes from an Alabama paper touting the Tide so take it for what it's worth.

1981 - Alabama by 11.5
1982 - Alabama by 4.5
1983 - Auburn by 6
1984 - Auburn by 7
1985 - Auburn by 3.5
1986 - Alabama by 3
1987 - Auburn by 4
1988 - Auburn by 7.5
1989 - pick 'em


More later.

 

[BamaInBham]

Re: Where did “ throw out the record books” come from when talking about the Iron Bow

See 1963, 1972, 2010, 2013 and a few others in my lifetime

In 63 both teams were 7-1, ranked 6 and 9,
72 Bama was 10-0, AU 9-1, 2 and 9
2010 9-2, 11-0, 9 and 2
2013 11-0, 10-1, 1 and 4

Those were all very good teams on both sides, including 2 of AU's top 5 teams of all time, 2 of which played for the NC, winning one, the other 2 teams finishing in the top 5 and AU top 10 of all time. 1972 was a miraculous type game and though won by the vastly inferior team, they finished 11-1, #5 in the country.

AU is 3-7 since the current run began in 08, likely to shortly be 3-8, with 2 of their wins coming from teams who won or played for the NC, 2 of AU's top 5 teams of all time. But because those 2 games included multiple bizarre plays and other good fortune for AU and because they were against the behemoth that is Saban's Bama, some think AU has some kind of "hold" on Alabama :smile:. Even some Bama fans. This is coupled with the fact that Bama often begins big games vs anyone somewhat tight (e.g., AU 09, UTx 09, OM 15 & 16, etc.). They often did this under Coach Bryant too. That's always been the case. Contrary to what some Bama fans think, the team gets very high for AU - you can hardly take a football game more seriously than an Alabama football team, most of that proven in how they prepare but it is often betrayed by the early tightness they show in big games. Very few programs want to win on a consistent basis as much as any Alabama football player or team. It is a hidden weapon. It's part of what enables them to withstand the horde of wild banshees that they often find on other sidelines knowing this is a chance to grab ultimate glory. But for opponents it is an unusual, once a year type mindset, for Bama it's the norm.

 

[Crimson1967]

Re: Where did “throw out the record books” come from when talking about the Iron Bowl

The 1936 Dodgers went 67-87.


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[selmaborntidefan]

Re: Where did “ throw out the record books” come from when talking about the Iron Bow

Other Iron Bowl Betting Lines


1990 - Alabama by 2.5
1991 -
1992 - Alabama by 15
1993 - Auburn by 1
1994 - Auburn by 1.5
1995 - Auburn by 6
1996 - Alabama by 6.5
1997 - Auburn by 12
1998 - Alabama by 5.5
1999- Alabama by 3.5
2000 - Auburn by 1 (this was shocking to see)
2001 - Auburn by 3
2002 - Alabama by 10.5
2003 - Auburn by 8

 

[selmaborntidefan]

Re: Where did “throw out the record books” come from when talking about the Iron Bowl

The 1936 Dodgers went 67-87.


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And threw out the records of how bad their team was.

 

[tidegrandpa]

Re: Where did “ throw out the record books” come from when talking about the Iron Bow

In 63 both teams were 7-1, ranked 6 and 9,
72 Bama was 10-0, AU 9-1, 2 and 9
2010 9-2, 11-0, 9 and 2
2013 11-0, 10-1, 1 and 4

Those were all very good teams on both sides, including 2 of AU's top 5 teams of all time, 2 of which played for the NC, winning one, the other 2 teams finishing in the top 5 and AU top 10 of all time. 1972 was a miraculous type game and though won by the vastly inferior team, they finished 11-1, #5 in the country.

AU is 3-7 since the current run began in 08, likely to shortly be 3-8, with 2 of their wins coming from teams who won or played for the NC, 2 of AU's top 5 teams of all time. But because those 2 games included multiple bizarre plays and other good fortune for AU and because they were against the behemoth that is Saban's Bama, some think AU has some kind of "hold" on Alabama :smile:. Even some Bama fans. This is coupled with the fact that Bama often begins big games vs anyone somewhat tight (e.g., AU 09, UTx 09, OM 15 & 16, etc.). They often did this under Coach Bryant too. That's always been the case. Contrary to what some Bama fans think, the team gets very high for AU - you can hardly take a football game more seriously than an Alabama football team, most of that proven in how they prepare but it is often betrayed by the early tightness they show in big games. Very few programs want to win on a consistent basis as much as any Alabama football player or team. It is a hidden weapon. It's part of what enables them to withstand the horde of wild banshees that they often find on other sidelines knowing this is a chance to grab ultimate glory. But for opponents it is an unusual, once a year type mindset, for Bama it's the norm.

I personally thought we should have been in good enough position to win each of these games, prior to the celestial interference that resulted in each loss. Aubie luck.

 

[Ole Man Dan]

Re: Where did “ throw out the record books” come from when talking about the Iron Bow

IMO: The phrase probably came from coaches who had underdog teams.
Keeps some underdog teams from going in the game expecting to lose and throwing in the towel quickly. Even a team that's a real dog, has to have some hope tossed their way.

OR

Maybe it came from Coaches whose teams are heavy favorites to win.
Coaches whose teams are heavy favorite might say that to keep his team from taking the underdog team too lightly.

AND

The better Coaches and Teams generally win the game.

LASTLY

IMO: During Coach Shula's time at Alabama, there were a lot of times we played, and I wondered if we could keep the loss close. (No confidence)
Probation had taken its toll on Alabama...
We were near the stage of being a team other teams wanted to play on HomeComing.
When I heard the phrase...
'You can throw out the record book on this game'.
I wanted to believe.

Coach Saban's arrival gave me confidence again.
Coach Saban said the things I wanted to hear.
We don't need those sayings...

 

[Chechem]

Re: Where did “ throw out the record books” come from when talking about the Iron Bow

Don't know where it began, but I remember John Forney using the term "throw out the records" before the famous kick-Bama-kick game. I was in the stands with my radio, and just before kickoff John Forney said something like, "Even though people often say you can throw out the records for the Iron Bowl, truth is the favorite usually wins. Bama should win easily today." Well, that game was a fail!!
:mad2:

 

[Redwood Forrest]

Re: Where did “ throw out the record books” come from when talking about the Iron Bow

Just wondering if those who believe throwing the record book out the window actually take the underdog to win outright with their $$$.