Would CNS Have Done Any Better This Year than CKD with the same roster???

[BamaMoon]

Yes, no, maybe. Replacing a DC and having to find a second receiver since Bernard wouldn’t be on the roster are huge issues that would have to be addressed.

But I agree with @crimsonaudio that not having 30 days where teams have a free buffet on our roster is a huge advantage. But idk if Saban staying would be better for our future in the long run. His choice of recruits and coaches was getting progressively worse.

Yeah, I didn't even consider CNS staying would involve hiring a new DC. Who knows how that would have gone!

But again, for sake of argument, it's comparing what would have happened with the same roster/coaches.

Who would have thunk the defense, after drastic changes from all those years, would have been the strength of this team???

 

[johnbt]

Yep, in no way am I comparing CNS vs. CKD in terms of coaching careers, but just trying to imagine this season with CNS and this roster.

But I agree with your take! Think we'd be about in the same place.

lol based on what?

I'd bet my life Saban doesn't lose at Vandy and Oklahoma

When you say "this roster" you do understand we had one of the most talented rosters in the country right?

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Yes, no, maybe. Replacing a DC and having to find a second receiver since Bernard wouldn’t be on the roster are huge issues that would have to be addressed.

But I agree with @crimsonaudio that not having 30 days where teams have a free buffet on our roster is a huge advantage. But idk if Saban staying would be better for our future in the long run. His choice of recruits and coaches was getting progressively worse.

He even admitted his age was becoming a factor in recruiting. His choices for assistants had really started slipping. The cracks were there on the OLINE, at QB, at WR and the overall performance of the team. We just weren't as good of a program.

 

[BamaMoon]

I'd argue Saban should have stepped down a few years ago, like after the 2020 season.

Fascinating to consider "who" would have been given the keys to the Ferrari coming off the NC???

Maybe Sark stays??? Who else would have been considered?

 

[B1GTide]

Fascinating to consider "who" would have been given the keys to the Ferrari coming off the NC???

Maybe Sark stays??? Who else would have been considered?

Sark gets the job, IMO.

 

[BamaMoon]

lol based on what?

I'd bet my life Saban doesn't lose at Vandy and Oklahoma

When you say "this roster" you do understand we had one of the most talented rosters in the country right?

This roster with all the cancer. Not just players, but attitudes, which is why he retired.

I don't think you are thinking "out of the box" about the question.

 

[JDCrimson]

I agree, I think we beat Vandy because we dont trot out player with duplicate numbers on a punt.

But i dont think we would have had the 1st half performance against UGA to win that game. I do think we would have beaten UT though. But I still think we would have lost to OU and UM because Saban himself could not prevent Milroe from emasculating himself on the field in those games.

Do I think Saban would have made a QB change, most certainly after OU but not before.

I think Vandy and Oklahoma at least.........might have lost to UGA, or not. The UGA fans are calling that loss a fluke now.........which is hilarious considering he beat them twice in 365 days

 

[BamaMoon]

lol based on what?

I'd bet my life Saban doesn't lose at Vandy and Oklahoma

When you say "this roster" you do understand we had one of the most talented rosters in the country right?

JM?

OL?

RB?

Talented yes, but a bunch of weenies that got pushed around in the biggest of games and against Vandy and OU, which turned out to be what sunk us.

Don't think I buy the "most talented roster in the country" line.

 

[johnbt]

This roster with all the cancer. Not just players, but attitudes, which is why he retired.

I don't think you are thinking "out of the box" about the question.

He made the playoffs every year but 2 out of 10

with 4 teams

We're playing today or last night if he's still coach. Period

 

[KrAzY3]

At this point I think there's no question the team has a better result with Saban.

The issue isn't just the disruption either, sometimes DeBoer's teams just were not well coached and the coaches were not well prepared.

For example, sending out two players with the same jersey number against Vanderbilt (cost Alabama the game), or not even having the right cleats for the Alabama players against Michigan (also might have cost Alabama the game).

These are the sort of mistakes that were pretty much unheard of under Saban because he had an extremely high attention to detail. This is why he never lost the sort of games DeBoer lost this season.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I'd argue Saban should have stepped down a few years ago, like after the 2020 season.

And give the program to Sark.

 

[tusks_n_raider]

I'd argue Saban should have stepped down a few years ago, like after the 2020 season.

2020 was absolutely the peak

That was CNS’s Best Team and Bama’s Best Ever.

That Offense was Insane.

We just Destroyed everybody.

We had 3 Heisman Finalists…. Lol

That was the moment to leave on the highest note for sure.

 

[BamaMoon]

I agree, I think we beat Vandy because we dont trot out player with duplicate numbers on a punt.

But i dont think we would have had the 1st half performance against UGA to win that game. I do think we would have beaten UT though. But I still think we would have lost to OU and UM because Saban himself could not prevent Milroe from emasculating himself on the field in those games.

Do I think Saban would have made a QB change, most certainly after OU but not before.

Agree about Georgia game for sure. CNS teams rarely came out HOT and EXPLOSIVE like we did in that game.

CNS tended to play it close to the vest in games like that. If we don't have the start we did in this game we lose to Georgia in embarrassing fashion. And no, I doubt we win that game the way CNS coached in these types of games.

 

[johnbt]

JM?

OL?

RB?

Talented yes, but a bunch of weenies that got pushed around in the biggest of games and against Vandy and OU, which turned out to be what sunk us.

Don't think I buy the "most talented roster in the country" line.

Coaching matters

 

[BamaMoon]

At this point I think there's no question the team has a better result with Saban.

The issue isn't just the disruption either, sometimes DeBoer's teams just were not well coached and the coaches were not well prepared.

For example, sending out two players with the same jersey number against Vanderbilt (cost Alabama the game), or not even having the right cleats for the Alabama players against Michigan (also might have cost Alabama the game).

These are the sort of mistakes that were pretty much unheard of under Saban because he had an extremely high attention to detail. This is why he never lost the sort of games DeBoer lost this season.

I'd agree with the preparation difference...although think about how CKD had us prepared for Georgia.

But, I think you are correct if we are talking CNS pre-2020.

But the last few years his teams were as undisciplined as most other teams in terms of mistakes/penalties.

 

[BamaMoon]

Coaching matters

Are you considering the drama/cancerous attitudes he would have had to deal with had he coached this team?

Did he deal with them very well in 2023?

Notice I'm asking questions.

But I think you are thinking of CNS without thinking about the context of the question. You said you'd bet your life he wouldn't lose to Vandy or OU. Did you watch this team play much this year?

 

[KrAzY3]

I'd agree with the preparation difference...although think about how CKD had us prepared for Georgia.

But, I think you are correct if we are talking CNS pre-2020.

But the last few years his teams were as undisciplined as most other teams in terms of mistakes/penalties.

DeBoer is a big game coach, if you look at his resume you see that. His record against the top Pac-12 teams (and Texas) was impressive.

But then you saw some mind-boggling losses in there as well. This includes a loss to an absolutely dreadful 3-9 Arizona St. team, and a loss to 6-7 Hawaii when he had a 10-3 Fresno St. team. I guess we can add the loss to 6-7 Oklahoma to the list as well.

In all those cases these were very costly losses, the Arizona St. loss kept him out of the Pac-12 championship game that year, and the Hawaii loss kept him out of the Mountain West championship game, likewise the Oklahoma loss kept Alabama out of the SECCG.

There seems to be something built in to the way DeBoer prepares that can help his team's beat an apparently superior opponent, like Georgia this year. He can do that, but perhaps because of how he allocates his resources there's also the downside of the capability of overlooking opponents that he should be able to handily beat. I said a while ago that was Saban's superpower really, he didn't lose to teams Alabama had a big advantage over, he took care of business.

The issue going forward is the SEC is full of landmines, DeBoer can't kind of take games off like you can get away with in the Pac-12 or the Mountain West, or else you're going to have a bad time. One reason I was worried about DeBoer is I watched a lot of his Washington team last year and they had a big problem with putting teams away. They showed up to big games but then played down to weaker competition, sound familiar?

In 2023 DeBoer was 8-0 in one score games. This year he was 2-3. While he might be a pretty good coach, the truth is he got lucky last year and that luck landed him the Alabama job.

 

[81usaf92]

At this point I think there's no question the team has a better result with Saban.

The issue isn't just the disruption either, sometimes DeBoer's teams just were not well coached and the coaches were not well prepared.

For example, sending out two players with the same jersey number against Vanderbilt (cost Alabama the game), or not even having the right cleats for the Alabama players against Michigan (also might have cost Alabama the game).

These are the sort of mistakes that were pretty much unheard of under Saban because he had an extremely high attention to detail. This is why he never lost the sort of games DeBoer lost this season.

Yet Saban was the same guy who hired Golding and kept him for numerous years. Who is to say that the defense wasn’t even worse with his new hire.

Also Alabama was one of the most consistently penalized teams from 2021-2023. Saban’s discipline was slipping at an alarming rate.

Yes DeBoer’s goofs in Vandy were epic but let’s not act like Saban was in full control of discipline. Hell, if people would actually rewatch the 2022 Tennessee games and ignore Autry then they might actually see the worst coached special teams in the country.

 

[TideEngineer08]

lol based on what?

I'd bet my life Saban doesn't lose at Vandy and Oklahoma

When you say "this roster" you do understand we had one of the most talented rosters in the country right?

Eh… I’m not convinced. We had those types of games under him the last three years of his tenure. But he never had more than one in the regular season until 2022.

I absolutely believe he was “capable” of losing that Vandy game and the Tennessee game. I don’t see him allowing what happened at Oklahoma though. That was a complete failure from top to bottom.

So worst case, I think Alabama is 10-2 and in the playoffs but they were never winning a NC with Milroe and his posse. Never.

 

[BamaMoon]

DeBoer is a big game coach, if you look at his resume you see that. His record against the top Pac-12 teams (and Texas) was impressive.

But then you saw some mind-boggling losses in there as well. This includes a loss to an absolutely dreadful 3-9 Arizona St. team, and a loss to 6-7 Hawaii when he had a 10-3 Fresno St. team.

In both cases, these were very costly losses, the Arizona St. loss kept him out of the Pac-12 championship game that year, and the Hawaii loss kept him out of the Mountain West championship game.

There seems to be something built in to the way DeBoer prepares that can help his team's beat an apparently superior opponent, like Georgia this year. He can do that, but perhaps because of how he allocates his resources there's also the downside of the capability of overlooking opponents that he should be able to handily beat. I said a while ago that was Saban's superpower really, he didn't lose to teams Alabama had a big advantage over, he took care of business.

The issue going forward is the SEC is full of landmines, DeBoer can't kind of take games off like you can get away with in the Pac-12 or the Mountain West, or else you're going to have a bad time. One reason I was worried about DeBoer is I watched a lot of his Washington team last year and they had a big problem with putting teams away. They showed up to big games but then played down to weaker competition, sound familiar?

In 2023 DeBoer was 8-0 in one score games. This year he was 2-3. While he might be a pretty good coach, the truth is he got lucky last year and that luck landed him the Alabama job.

Good post. I don't think I agree "luck" got him hired though. He has an impressive record, despite some head-scratching losses.

It would seem when he breaks this season down he'll quickly realize games against Vandy and OU matter just as much. If he doesn't realize that, he'll hear it from others. If he's as smart as I think he is, he'll adjust his approach. Only time will tell.

But thanks for the post!