News Article: When will "pit bull denial" stop?
- Thread starter banjeaux
- Start date
So you're gonna go with the ridicule anyone who disagrees with you debate style? That's cool. I'm sorry to have troubled you with my completely ignorant opinion sir.
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No, I just find it humorous that you would attempt to counter all the data with a request for 'articles about non-violent pit bulls' - as if there are articles about any non-violent breed of dog, out of the extraordinary situation.
I was hoping for a logical debate, not one based on 'empirical' evidence and passion, but I guess that was expecting too much...
The data speaks volumes - unless you can come up with more than an agenda / ignorance from ALL media, then your opinion will be dismissed. I just want the facts, and they don't appear to be on your side (unless you can show proof otherwise).
How can facts be given in a media driven by sensationalism? Cesar Milan, the dog whisperer, loves pit bulls and has shown them to be quite good pets for the right owners.
OK, then provide facts (not arguments from authority from 'dog whisperers') that give concrete data showing the media is sensationalizing pit bull attacks.
Real data, not blogs or whisperers, please. Thanks.
I can only give you the information it is up to you to actually entertain another opinion. The fact is just posting links of "Pit Bull Attack" articles means nothing. Most of them have NO PROOF it is actually a pit bull. Not even a picture, which still wouldn't be hard evidence because their are several breeds that look very similar (American Pit Bull Terrier, American Bulldog, American Staffordshire Terrier, etc.). So maybe, just MAYBE, they made a mistake, or it's a volatile mix, or it is just a bad dog. Is that possible? Why punish an entire breed because humans have been known to exploit their fighting ability?
I just ask you to read some of this, it's not gonna change my opinion either way. My opinion isn't base off news articles but actual interaction with the animals.
http://www.aspca.org/Pet-care/virtual-pet-behaviorist/dog-articles/the-truth-about-pit-bulls
http://pets.webmd.com/dogs/features/pit-bulls-safety
http://www.cesarsway.com/dogbehavior/basics/How-Did-Pit-Bulls-Get-a-Bad-Rap
http://einhorninsurance.com/california-insurance/pit-bulls-pass-atts-temperament-test/
I'm no expert, but I've read that it's not a good idea to bring babies/toddlers around dogs, especially if they weren't around small children as pups. My parents had to get rid of their German Shepherd when I was born, because he snapped at me. They said he'd always been really friendly up until then. I've had several German Shepherds growing up, and they were all very protective of me, but those were ones I raised from pups.
The problem you are gonna run into is assuming every article that says it's a pit bull attack, is actually correctly identifying what a pit bull is. Not saying it doesn't happen but uninformed and unresearched identification because it's the easy thing to do and will draw the most attention is not exactly outside the realm of possibility in terms of media integrity.
This is true sometimes. Some dogs perceive babies as a threat. All breeds. Crazy right?
Is NS saying that pit bulls are bad and even though there are a lot of pit bulls in the U.S., we need to get rid of and or "control" them?
I've not seen anyone suggesting we 'get rid' or 'control' them, just saying it's silly to act as if they're not dangerous.
But nice try...
So we do nothing about the danger? You talked about looking up deadly bites from other dogs. Do I need to look up deaths from water guns?
I remember when it was German Shepherds, then Dobermans, then Rottweilers, then pit bulls. I've never had a pit bull, but those I've personally been around were sweet and loving and playful. A neighbor's came up on the back porch today, ready to play. I don't blame the breed even though I don't have a dog in the fight. I blame the negligence of adults in this case in particular and most in general. Children frighten dogs because they move suddenly and are loud, and they are small enough for most dogs to reach the throat and too weak to fight off an attack. 7 dogs seems a bit much as well. I wonder how well they were fed and treated.
Ahh, so now we're comparing inanimate objects from self-animated objects?
Figures...
We don't wanna hear about the sweet and loving ones dang you. Tell us about the ferocious ones so we can base our entire opinion about the breed on it.
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Or we could just look at facts...
But then the emotional among us will starts debating what 'is' is.
Facts? Where in the original article does a vet positively ID the type of dog? If it is a pit bull, what type? Was it pure bred or a mix? How was it reared?
LOL, this is going just as predicted. :biggrin:
Funny how no one seems to mistake these dogs for anything else, guess we need a 'positive ID from a vet' to show that pits are more prone to this behavior.
You guys made my night, thanks.
Show how they are prone. Because of your unflappable articles of truth? Because all official recognitions of the temperament of pit bulls mentions no aggressiveness towards humans. But you refuse to accept that the logic of using what someone else states as fact doesn't prove it itself to he true. And I don't blame you, that's why Americans have the flawed opinion of the breed. They look scary and the media jumps on any opportunity to spotlight any thing resembling a pit bull attack as another feral beast just doing what God intended them to do.
And you're welcome.
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This CDC pub is old, but shows purebred pitbulls to be more likely to be involved in a human fatality than crossbred pit bulls.
http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/images/dogbreeds-a.pdf
As I said, I don't have a dog in this fight. I can only speak from personal experience. Data is not too hard to find. I found the following to be interesting and pretty much in line with my thinking, although I'd be very unlikely to own certain breeds - including pit bulls - as long as I have kids around:
Finally, it is imperative to
keep in mind that even if breed-specific bite rates could
be accurately calculated, they do not factor in ownerrelated issues. For example, less responsible owners or
owners who want to foster aggression in their dogs may
be drawn differentially to certain breeds...
...Several interacting factors affect a dog’s propensityto bite, including heredity, sex, early experience,
socialization and training, health (medical and behavioral), reproductive status, quality of ownership and
supervision, and victim behavior. For example, a study
in Denver of medically-attended dog bites in 1991 suggested that male dogs are 6.2 times more likely to bite
than female dogs, sexually intact dogs are 2.6 times
more likely to bite than neutered dogs, and chained
dogs are 2.8 times more likely to bite than unchained
dogs.12 Communities have tried to address the dog bite
problem by focusing on different factors related to biting behavior...
...Although, it is not systematically reported, our
reading of the fatal bite reports indicates that problem
behaviors (of dogs and owners) have preceded attacks in
a great many cases and should be sufficient evidence for
preemptive action. Approaches to decreasing dangerous
dog and owner behaviors are numerous. The potential
importance of strong animal control programs is illustrated by our data; from 1979 through 1998, 24% of
human DBRF were caused by owned dogs (typically
more than 1) that were roaming off the owners’ property. Some deaths might have been averted through more
stringent animal control laws and enforcement (eg, leash
laws, fencing requirements). Although the bite prevention effectiveness of such animal control ordinances and
programs has not been systematically evaluated, freeroaming dogs and dogs with menacing behavior are
problems that need to be addressed even if they do not
bite (eg, causing bicycle or car crashes).
Generic non–breed-specific, dangerous dog laws
can be enacted that place primary responsibility for a
dog’s behavior on the owner, regardless of the dog’s
breed.17 In particular, targeting chronically irresponsible dog owners may be effective.18 If dog owners are
required to assume legal liability for the behavior and
actions of their pets, they may be encouraged to seek
professional help in training and socializing their pets.
Other options include enforcing leash laws and laws
against dog fighting. We noticed in the fatal cases, that
less than one half of 1% of DBRF were caused by
leashed animals off the owners’ property. Subdivisions
and municipalities that outlaw fences or limit fences to
heights insufficient for controlling large dogs may be
increasing the probability of children interacting with
unsupervised dogs
So how much is the breed of the dog and how much is owner ignorance, negligence, and malfeasance? I don't claim to know. I don't think you can write the whole breed off as brutish, but neither can you say there's nothing there regarding the breed.
Bottom line to me is one should carefully choose both the breed and the individual dog, especially when children are around. Owners should also be responsible and make sure their dog is well acclimated to children or take steps to keep the dog and children separated. In any case, proper adult supervision is required whenever dogs and children share a space.
http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/images/dogbreeds-a.pdf
As I said, I don't have a dog in this fight. I can only speak from personal experience. Data is not too hard to find. I found the following to be interesting and pretty much in line with my thinking, although I'd be very unlikely to own certain breeds - including pit bulls - as long as I have kids around:
Finally, it is imperative to
keep in mind that even if breed-specific bite rates could
be accurately calculated, they do not factor in ownerrelated issues. For example, less responsible owners or
owners who want to foster aggression in their dogs may
be drawn differentially to certain breeds...
...Several interacting factors affect a dog’s propensityto bite, including heredity, sex, early experience,
socialization and training, health (medical and behavioral), reproductive status, quality of ownership and
supervision, and victim behavior. For example, a study
in Denver of medically-attended dog bites in 1991 suggested that male dogs are 6.2 times more likely to bite
than female dogs, sexually intact dogs are 2.6 times
more likely to bite than neutered dogs, and chained
dogs are 2.8 times more likely to bite than unchained
dogs.12 Communities have tried to address the dog bite
problem by focusing on different factors related to biting behavior...
...Although, it is not systematically reported, our
reading of the fatal bite reports indicates that problem
behaviors (of dogs and owners) have preceded attacks in
a great many cases and should be sufficient evidence for
preemptive action. Approaches to decreasing dangerous
dog and owner behaviors are numerous. The potential
importance of strong animal control programs is illustrated by our data; from 1979 through 1998, 24% of
human DBRF were caused by owned dogs (typically
more than 1) that were roaming off the owners’ property. Some deaths might have been averted through more
stringent animal control laws and enforcement (eg, leash
laws, fencing requirements). Although the bite prevention effectiveness of such animal control ordinances and
programs has not been systematically evaluated, freeroaming dogs and dogs with menacing behavior are
problems that need to be addressed even if they do not
bite (eg, causing bicycle or car crashes).
Generic non–breed-specific, dangerous dog laws
can be enacted that place primary responsibility for a
dog’s behavior on the owner, regardless of the dog’s
breed.17 In particular, targeting chronically irresponsible dog owners may be effective.18 If dog owners are
required to assume legal liability for the behavior and
actions of their pets, they may be encouraged to seek
professional help in training and socializing their pets.
Other options include enforcing leash laws and laws
against dog fighting. We noticed in the fatal cases, that
less than one half of 1% of DBRF were caused by
leashed animals off the owners’ property. Subdivisions
and municipalities that outlaw fences or limit fences to
heights insufficient for controlling large dogs may be
increasing the probability of children interacting with
unsupervised dogs
So how much is the breed of the dog and how much is owner ignorance, negligence, and malfeasance? I don't claim to know. I don't think you can write the whole breed off as brutish, but neither can you say there's nothing there regarding the breed.
Bottom line to me is one should carefully choose both the breed and the individual dog, especially when children are around. Owners should also be responsible and make sure their dog is well acclimated to children or take steps to keep the dog and children separated. In any case, proper adult supervision is required whenever dogs and children share a space.
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