BREAKING Sec additions–Texas, Oklahoma inquire about joining SEC per report

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dWarriors88

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Wait what you posted is all you got? I posted more information about Texas' financial situation than that in the NIL thread.

Your view is really quite overly simplistic, but let's look at it another way. Care you explain how Oklahoma would be a better addition than North Carolina for example?
Very easy, Oklahoma is a better addition then even Texas. Their football team is blueblood as it gets, finished every season in the top 10 in the last 5-6 years. HIGH quality GAMES, OU vs any SEC school is intriguing to college football fans OU vs Alabama, are you kidding me?! What happened to all the Bama fans that LOOOVE hanging out with the Sooner fans in 2002-03, I know you were around. It was tradition at its finest, and not to mention really good football games. And the two games we had in the 2010's were amazing, the heartbreaking loss in the Sugar bowl and of course the Revenge game in the orange bowl.

Besides, OU makes more money then North Carolina. Lincoln Riley has a far better program, and NC has been in trouble with the NCAA a few seasons ago for giving out free classes or whatever. Mack Brown led program in the SEC? And your over here crying about what Texas is going to wreck. Mack Brown was a staple of their culture, and if you don't want Texas then why randomly throw North Carolina in there?

State of North Carolina is obviously waaaay prettier than Oklahoma though, I'll give you that.
 
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DzynKingRTR

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If you think for a second Texas asking to join the SEC means their going to have the same weight as they had in the Big XII you need to fix your thinking. They're not going to have the same PULL dude
didn't say they would have the same pull. I said they would ruin the conference and they will.
 
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KrAzY3

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Very easy, Oklahoma is a better addition then even Texas. Their football team is blueblood as it gets, finished every season in the top 10 in the last 5-6 years. HIGH quality GAMES, OU vs any SEC school is intriguing to college football fans OU vs Alabama, are you kidding me?! What happened to all the Bama fans that LOOOVE hanging out with the Sooner fans in 2002-03, I know you were around. It was tradition at its finest, and not to mention really good football games. And the two games we had in the 2010's were amazing, the heartbreaking loss in the Sugar bowl and of course the Revenge game in the orange bowl. This is college football tradition being brought back together.
Didn't you start this by questioning someone's knowledge of the finances, then when I mention a better financial fit you make a post that doesn't allude to finances at all.

I'm happy to talk the financial aspects, but I'm not sure you want to. I'm fully prepared to explain to you why North Carolina is a better fit financially and would be less disruptive. But yeah, HIGH quality GAMES! Way to break down the financial aspects.
 

dWarriors88

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Didn't you start this by questioning someone's knowledge of the finances, when when I mention a better financial fit you make a post that doesn't allude to finances at all.

I'm happy to talk the financial aspects, but I'm not sure you want to. I'm fully prepared to explain to you why North Carolina is a better fit financially and would be less disruptive. But yeah, HIGH quality GAMES! Way to break down the financial aspects.
And I'm still waiting for you to share your findings on how weak those schools finances actually are, yet you straw-manned me and said you already did. Well where's the link bud. You're not convincing me with your WORDS that the half a billion dollars OU and Texas have brought in together since 2018 isn't a lot of money relative to all of college football.

I make it very simple for you.

Texas, Oklahoma. Have. Both. Finished. In. The. Top. 10. Revenue. For. The. Last. 5. YEARS.

Your argument is void until you share sourced information.
 

81usaf92

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I have already extensively done all of that.

They both are poor additions. This is coming from someone that said Missouri and A&M would both be good additions and that Missouri would join if given the chance over a year before it happened. The SEC is already good at football. The SEC is already in the state of Texas. These are redundant additions.
Yeah I don’t think the OKC market really adds anything. North Carolina State and UVA makes more sense than these two. Plus do we really want Texas viewing the books?
 

dWarriors88

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Didn't you start this by questioning someone's knowledge of the finances, then when I mention a better financial fit you make a post that doesn't allude to finances at all.

I'm happy to talk the financial aspects, but I'm not sure you want to. I'm fully prepared to explain to you why North Carolina is a better fit financially and would be less disruptive. But yeah, HIGH quality GAMES! Way to break down the financial aspects.

DID NORTH CAROLINA ASK THE SEC TO JOIN? NO! This is about two specific teams ASKING to join the conference. This isn't a free pick for all. You're a really smart guy, I know you can do better than these fallacies.
 

TideEngineer08

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There will be no regular Oklahoma vs. Alabama games, or Texas vs. Alabama games. They will most assuredly be in different divisions, and the rotational schedule will probably bring them around once or twice every decade.
 

81usaf92

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DID NORTH CAROLINA ASK THE SEC TO JOIN? NO! This is about two specific teams ASKING to join the conference. This isn't a free pick for all. You're a really smart guy, I know you can do better than these fallacies.
1) we really don’t know how interested both really are. The Houston Chronicle could be making up a bunch of bull.

2) Adding Texas to the SEC financials adds a lot of problems. They tend to try to control the conversation. The SEC must put their foot down.

I think the argument is more about if Texas is really worth the headache for the Texas money…
 

81usaf92

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There will be no regular Oklahoma vs. Alabama games, or Texas vs. Alabama games. They will most assuredly be in different divisions, and the rotational schedule will probably bring them around once or twice every decade.
We would just play Georgia and Florida every year. We would either get MSU or Oklahoma as a permanent rival if they continue to do it.
 
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TideEngineer08

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We would just play Georgia and Florida every year. We would either get MSU or Oklahoma as a permanent rival if they continue to do it.
I don't see permanent games continuing in this scenario. What's the need? All important rivalries are protected except Alabama/LSU. Neither team considers the other its primary rival, even if the game has always been huge during the Saban era. CBS or whoever the TV deal is with, won't care. Because while you lose Alabama/LSU, you gain Alabama vs. Georgia, Florida, and LSU vs. Texas, Oklahoma. Permanent cross over games will cease.
 
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81usaf92

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I'm trying to wrap my head around what might be the craziest expansion rumor I've heard. There have been ones that might have been bigger (the whole Texas, Oklahoma, etc... forming a Pac-16 and destroying the Big 12 was big). I've heard ones that were pretty dumb, like Colorado St. to the Big 12.

This though, let's put every single football power from the SEC, Southwest Conference, and Big 8 (except Nebraska) in one conference together thing is a pretty harebrained idea.

Financially, if the SEC hadn't already inked their big deal with ESPN, I could see this making more sense. The thing is, it is signed already. So, the SEC doesn't have any negotiations going on. I could see a scenario where they could have used Texas and Oklahoma as leverage to try to get 5+ million more per team, but as it is they'd have to try to renegotiate just to maintain the same payouts.

Politically, I'd think Texas A&M, Texas Tech, and Oklahoma St. would lead the charge against this. I really doubt Missouri would like the idea of this either. Remember Texas A&M and Missouri left to get away from Texas and Oklahoma and what was going on in the Big 12. They don't want more of that.

Regionally, I would have thought the Missouri and A&M additions did everything the SEC could hope for in the region. As it is, even with less regional teams the SEC has about as much brand power as the Big 12. Consider LSU, Missouri, Arkansas, and A&M's brand up against Texas, Oklahoma, Texas Tech and Baylor for example. The SEC has a lot of influence without a lot of investment in the region. If the SEC expands, I would think east and north offer more opportunities for mutually beneficial expansions.

From Oklahoma's perspective I could see the addition making some sense, but rumor is Oklahoma had the chance to join the SEC at least once before and didn't take it. So they have to see the risks as well. They might just fear being left behind financially though. They're in a small state and the Big 12 is lagging behind financially, they might be feeling some unease. Still though, it would be a lot to bite off.

The only reason I can see Texas doing this is either ego or some sort of deep seated fear that A&M is going to surpass them and they can't do anything about it. They have plenty of money already, they're the top revenue generation athletic department. They don't need to move, and they can kind of pick where they go as every other conference not named the SEC could gain from entering the state of Texas.

Really, this makes the most sense to me as flirting with someone to get someone else's attention. The SEC should feel no sense of urgency to add any more teams and if they do they have every reason to be selective. Texas and Oklahoma aren't even their only options out west. There is also Kansas, which would in the least offer a good basketball rival for Kentucky. Once you start going east you have North Carolina, NC State. Virginia and while I'm not in love with them I think even Virginia Tech offers the SEC more.

Even going north makes more sense to me. Not in love with Cincinnati, but Ohio is a big state. Then there's Notre Dame as well. Point being there are other solid options, and that doesn't involve dealing with Texas and greatly annoying Texas A&M. This would in the very least be a risky move, it could greatly unsettle things within the SEC.

Just the rumor itself means something though. It weakens the Big 12 and may be that's what Oklahoma and Texas are going for. They are the bullies of the conference and might have more demands. The other Big 12 teams are going to agree to what ever they say if they fear their leaving, because without those two programs this is is another AAC type conference.

I have trouble making sense of this because there is already so much turmoil and the SEC is already so loaded with football powers. I'm curious how the Big 12, ACC and Pac-12 might react to just the rumors of this.
Well addition requires 75% of the vote.

We know:

Nays:

Missouri
aTm
Arkansas

So really both teams have to hope Alabama, Florida, and Georgia are all in on this otherwise this probably dies before it begins.
 

selmaborntidefan

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I’m intrigued. I think the sport will continue to evolve. The SEC may want to go ahead and stake this claim before someone else does. Power play by the SEC. “We’re bigger, better, and more powerful than you.”

I think it could be very exciting. New is exciting sometimes, right? Texas is the wealthiest program there is. Why would the SEC not want to bring them in? Not talking about individual teams in the SEC, but the conference. Money-wise and football-wise, I’m intrigued.
The wisest and safest comment of all.

One thing I'll admit I did not foresee that seems obvious in retrospect is the infrastructure of CFB collapsing so that the same four teams (or at least 2-3 of them every single year) make the four-team playoff every single year. But remember - the SEC produced FOUR consecutive national champions that were FOUR different SEC teams (2007-08-09-10). The SEC making the playoff each year was a reasonably safe bet, and even saying, "Alabama will dominate" by 2014 was NOT earth-shattering news.

I'm not a "doom and gloom" Eeyore, just a passionate fan. I know that WHAT I LIKE doesn't matter to the people who like (and who frankly HAVE to like) money. They throw the rest of us the crumbs they think we should get. They draw up a plan designed to increase the Benjamins - if it happens to be what I like, good.

They don't care what I like or don't like unless I leave the sport viewing and take others with me.

The game will evolve. It will likely survive in SOME form.It MAY thrive or it may not. The KEY point will always be keeping more people interested in each subsequent generation.
 

BamaHoops

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They may have inquired about the SEC - but will they land here?

Really difficult to see TX & TAM in same league. TX will work hard to avoid that.

Hard to see one league with Bama, LSU, GA, FL, TAM, TX & OK. As a remainder you have Clemson & Ohio St - all other teams suck at football.

I have no doubt that conference realignment and consolidation will eventually happen. But I really doubt that both TX & OK will BOTH join the SEC, while all other SEC powers remain in the league.
 

TideEngineer08

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They may have inquired about the SEC - but will they land here?

Really difficult to see TX & TAM in same league. TX will work hard to avoid that.

Hard to see one league with Bama, LSU, GA, FL, TAM, TX & OK. As a remainder you have Clemson & Ohio St - all other teams suck at football.

I have no doubt that conference realignment and consolidation will eventually happen. But I really doubt that both TX & OK will BOTH join the SEC, while all other SEC powers remain in the league.
I find it curious to imagine Texas desiring to join the SEC. They would essentially be admitting little brother got one over them. In essence, this would be them "crying uncle."

That may be the biggest reason I find any of this hard to believe.
 

DzynKingRTR

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I find it curious to imagine Texas desiring to join the SEC. They would essentially be admitting little brother got one over them. In essence, this would be them "crying uncle."

That may be the biggest reason I find any of this hard to believe.
I never understood why texas doesn't just go independent. They are just arrogant enough to think they are that important.
 

81usaf92

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Here is another thing some aren’t considering. If this happens then it really takes the SEC championship out of Atlanta. Texas is located in Central Texas. With Alabama moving to the East it would almost guarantee you that the SECCG is either at Arrowhead, NOLA, or Jerry World.
 

KrAzY3

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Texas, Oklahoma. Have. Both. Finished. In. The. Top. 10. Revenue. For. The. Last. 5. YEARS.

Your argument is void until you share sourced information.
First off, you don't seem to understand how much I like this stuff. You're begging me to dig into stuff I've written articles about. I blew up another thread because I got so sidetracked by my knowledge of the financial side of things I kind of forgot to stick to the pertinent parts.

You've been pretty aggressive here, but I'll just chalk that up to excitement.

I'm not going to link a bunch of stuff because I don't have time for that right now and I can go off the top of my head anyway. I'm just using North Carolina as a good example but I could even use Kansas, they're just more like Oklahoma in the sense that they're a small state.

I also already alluded to some financial stuff in a previous post, but I guess it was just TRDL.

Let's revisit the main point though. One reason not to add Texas and Oklahoma is because the SEC already inked the big deal with ESPN. This is important because any money to come from adding Texas and Oklahoma is just that, money to be gained at some point in the future. It was the same with Missouri and A&M, it wasn't until the SEC Network deal that adding them actually added money. In fact they had to renegotiate just to keep from lowering the payouts to teams in the SEC.

So now the SEC is locked into long-term deals. There's no big TV money to be gained. The only exception could be if there was something to do with rolling the Longhorn Network into the SEC Network. There could be some leverage there with ESPN but that's about it. The huge deal the SEC just inked does mean that the SEC is paying out tens of millions more than some other conferences. I've outlined that elsewhere, and it might be very well why OU is sniffing around. But, as I said those deals are signed already.

That aside, let's get on with the NC to OU comparison. One of the big drivers now for revenue are the conference networks. That's why I was big on adding Missouri and Texas A&M. You really reached a lot more households with that deal. The trick here is you have a higher rate on the packages for state that has a team in the conference. So you add A&M, you get more money per Texas subscriber. You don't double the price in Alabama though. So you're not getting double by adding Texas. All you're really doing is getting the state of Oklahoma and Oklahoma isn't very big.

North Carolina is over twice the population of Oklahoma. So, North Carolina would mean double the SEC Network revenue basically. Not only that, but you have more sets of eyes to tune into sports events. Charlotte is double the market that Oklahoma City is. So if we're talking major markets Oklahoma loses out as well.

Now, you might counter with athletic department revenue, of which I am well aware. The trick is that's really only indicative of the health of the athletic department. The conferences don't actually get to keep that money. In fact, in many cases (notably Texas) it's heavily influenced by boosters donating money. They will not, I assure you, be donating money to the SEC or other schools so that amount doesn't mean much. Football is a big earner, but they get to keep their ticket sales, and all that revenue you are citing is their revenue.

Now, you might say but Oklahoma and Texas will have highly rated football games! Sure, but as I said with no TV deals to negotiate, where's the money? Not only that, but there's already 14 teams. Texas and Oklahoma will replace other games that would otherwise take place. So instead of Alabama vs Florida we might get Alabama vs. Oklahoma. Both big games, but you have to understand it in terms of the net gain.

The thing is, basketball drives a lot of revenue to and basketball is huge in North Carolina. So, North Carolina vs Kentucky would be a huge draw in the same way Alabama vs. Oklahoma would be. Sure, the ratings would be better for the football game but you have to view it in relative terms.

The SEC already has 6 of the top 15 football powers of all time. Even if you imagine a four conference breakaway , the SEC already has all the football powers they need! In this scenario we're saying they have 8 of the top 16! Why? What would that serve? Furthermore when Alabama plays Oklahoma someone still has to lose. When Texas plays LSU someone still has to lose. There will be a net reduction in winning percentage if those two teams join. Something has to give and it would damage some football brands.

This is where North Carolina would shine as an addition. Not only are they a bigger state with a bigger major marker than Oklahoma, but they have a brand (and this is backed by merchandise sales) that rivals Oklahoma! This is without the redundancy that Oklahoma provides. If Oklahoma joins the SEC, someone will move down a notch in football. If it's Oklahoma they lose out, if it's someone else they lose out. But something has to give. With North Carolina we're seeing the SEC take a step to become a basketball power as well, and improving that brand.

I personally don't think the SEC needs to expand at all. However, if they do expand it should be something that clearly makes things better for existing teams. I haven't seen anything to indicate Oklahoma and Texas would do that. I reiterate though, I said Texas A&M and Missouri would be good additions and the SEC's per team payout has gone up tens of millions per team since then. Oklahoma and Texas are just adding football brands to add football brands...
 

DzynKingRTR

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Wait I seem to remember the state of Oklahoma having a law that Oklahoma and Okie Lite have to be in the same conference? Am I wrong or was that just an urban legend?
 
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