New missing submersible thread...

[TexasBama]

Pretty sure this is a private venture, and likely had
no government oversite. I look for the Coast Guard to take the stance that this was a private business. Afterall the Company charged the passengers $250,000 each for the trip.
The Coast Guard will say they go where they are scent.

the free market solution.
ETA. Dan Crenshaw is….short

 

[2003TIDE]

These capsules were designed for air travel by Boeing Avation.

This is some internet nonsense being repeated. Boeing has come out and said they neither sold the carbon fiber to OceanGate or had anything to do with the design.

 

[Tidewater]

i have similar thoughts on everest tourism

I think that this type of tourism needs to be covered by rescue insurance. No insurance in an extreme situation, no rescue, just "thoughts and prayers" if you get into trouble.
The insurance policy needs ot cover the cost of a rescue.

 

[2003TIDE]

I think that this type of tourism needs to be covered by rescue insurance. No insurance in an extreme situation, no rescue, just "thoughts and prayers" if you get into trouble.
The insurance policy needs ot cover the cost of a rescue.

Makes sense. You can buy insurance as a SCUBA diver in case you needed to be airlifted to somewhere with a hyperbaric chamber. I don’t see why these deep sea operations shouldn’t have insurance.

 

[Tidewater]

Makes sense. You can buy insurance as a SCUBA diver in case you needed to be airlifted to somewhere with a hyperbaric chamber. I don’t see why these deep sea operations shouldn’t have insurance.

I'm sure somebody has already projected the cost of this failed rescue. I'm really sorry folks died. I'm also sorry the tax-payers will end up footing a lot of the bill. This will not be cheap.

Plus, if an insurance company had looked at this set-up, they would have demanded a lot of fixes before the dive.

 

[twofbyc]

Makes sense. You can buy insurance as a SCUBA diver in case you needed to be airlifted to somewhere with a hyperbaric chamber. I don’t see why these deep sea operations shouldn’t have insurance.

IIRC, when the pleasure-craft boom arrived, CG started charging DA boaters who ran out of fuel (and other preventable situations) for assistance/tows. I don’t know if they’ll even tow a boat anymore, I think that’s left to private companies (SEATOW etc.) who don’t do it for free.
This situation is no different; the company that owned the vessel should pay all costs and if they can’t, pass it on to the families.
It’s time these people understood that when they get in trouble “having fun”, it’s not up to the public to pay the freight for the clean up when things go sideways, no matter how serious.
Have your fun at your own expense, from start to finish.

 

[Bazza]

 

[mdb-tpet]

IIRC, when the pleasure-craft boom arrived, CG started charging DA boaters who ran out of fuel (and other preventable situations) for assistance/tows. I don’t know if they’ll even tow a boat anymore, I think that’s left to private companies (SEATOW etc.) who don’t do it for free.
This situation is no different; the company that owned the vessel should pay all costs and if they can’t, pass it on to the families.
It’s time these people understood that when they get in trouble “having fun”, it’s not up to the public to pay the freight for the clean up when things go sideways, no matter how serious.
Have your fun at your own expense, from start to finish.

Compare the Titan recovery effort with the "recovery" effort for the migrants in the boat off the coast of Greece that has lost dozens to hundreds of lives, and it just shows you once again how vastly differently we value human lives based upon circumstance, net worth, and nationality.

 

[TexasBama]

IIRC, when the pleasure-craft boom arrived, CG started charging DA boaters who ran out of fuel (and other preventable situations) for assistance/tows. I don’t know if they’ll even tow a boat anymore, I think that’s left to private companies (SEATOW etc.) who don’t do it for free.
This situation is no different; the company that owned the vessel should pay all costs and if they can’t, pass it on to the families.
It’s time these people understood that when they get in trouble “having fun”, it’s not up to the public to pay the freight for the clean up when things go sideways, no matter how serious.
Have your fun at your own expense, from start to finish.

There are spots on the west and NW parts of San Antonio that are dry until they get a notable rain. Years ago some guy went through a barricade and had to be rescued. He was billed for the rescue.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

There are spots on the west and NW parts of San Antonio that are dry until they get a notable rain. Years ago some guy went through a barricade and had to be rescued. He was billed for the rescue.

I'm confused about this. I'm not a maritime attorney, but this seems in conflict with the statement yesterday by a CG officer. I didn't hear all the question by the reporter, but it obviously concerned compensation. He replied something to the effect of "No mam, if you're in trouble on the high seas, we'll be there." Then a maritime lawyer from Maine said yesterday that the CG was prohibited by federal law from charging. I read the CG policy on SAR and it's not very clear. When a Marine Assistance Request Broadcast ("MARB") goes out, the CG first relays it so commercial enterprises or "Good Samaritans" can respond. If not, after ten minutes, the CG is obligated to. Then, it makes the statement that the MARB must be carefully worded so as not to create an obligation on the part of the rescuee not to pay. I wondered how you do that. In the sample MARBs at the end of the section, they're simple and don't mention compensation. What I came away with was that the CG is obligated to respond and can't demand payment. My granddaughter's husband is in the CG, so I'll ask him. As far as San Antonio, that obviously wasn't involving the CG. Was it the county? My niece and her husband live near SA and they popped in for a short visit on Saturday. I wish this had come up before then because he's lived his entire life there and had a major car dealership. I'm sure he would know something about it. Funny but my wife was put off by his keeping his hat on in the house. I reminded her 1) he's bald and 2) he's from Texas...

 

[Padreruf]

I'm confused about this. I'm not a maritime attorney, but this seems in conflict with the statement yesterday by a CG officer. I didn't hear all the question by the reporter, but it obviously concerned compensation. He replied something to the effect of "No mam, if you're in trouble on the high seas, we'll be there." Then a maritime lawyer from Maine said yesterday that the CG was prohibited by federal law from charging. I read the CG policy on SAR and it's not very clear. When a Marine Assistance Request Broadcast ("MARB") goes out, the CG first relays it so commercial enterprises or "Good Samaritans" can respond. If not, after ten minutes, the CG is obligated to. Then, it makes the statement that the MARB must be carefully worded so as not to create an obligation on the part of the rescuee not to pay. I wondered how you do that. In the sample MARBs at the end of the section, they're simple and don't mention compensation. What I came away with was that the CG is obligated to respond and can't demand payment. My granddaughter's husband is in the CG, so I'll ask him. As far as San Antonio, that obviously wasn't involving the CG. Was it the county? My niece and her husband live near SA and they popped in for a short visit on Saturday. I wish this had come up before then because he's lived his entire life there and had a major car dealership. I'm sure he would know something about it. Funny but my wife was put off by his keeping his hat on in the house. I reminded her 1) he's bald and 2) he's from Texas...

Is he recovering from chemo? I have worn a cap indoors for 4 months now as my hair grows back...vaniity of vanities...all is vanity and a striving after the wind.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Is he recovering from chemo? I have worn a cap indoors for 4 months now as my hair grows back...vaniity of vanities...all is vanity and a striving after the wind.

From all that appears, he's healthy as a horse. He has that gut that it seems like so many car dealers have...

 

[Go Bama]

Is he recovering from chemo? I have worn a cap indoors for 4 months now as my hair grows back...vaniity of vanities...all is vanity and a striving after the wind.

I work in a cap now. It's on my head as I type. It's like a Scot Golfer's cap. I never realized before chemo how much heat hair retains.

As soon as I leave the office, the hat comes off. It's not a vanity thing for me at all. My daughter, Mia, rocked being bald. I shaved my head when she was going through chemo in 2021, and have been bald since October. I really don't think my hair is coming back. My scalp looks like someone with alopecia. The hair that has come back is super fine and sparse.

I'm OK with it if I'm bald from now on. There are some obvious advantages.

 

[twofbyc]

I'm confused about this. I'm not a maritime attorney, but this seems in conflict with the statement yesterday by a CG officer. I didn't hear all the question by the reporter, but it obviously concerned compensation. He replied something to the effect of "No mam, if you're in trouble on the high seas, we'll be there." Then a maritime lawyer from Maine said yesterday that the CG was prohibited by federal law from charging. I read the CG policy on SAR and it's not very clear. When a Marine Assistance Request Broadcast ("MARB") goes out, the CG first relays it so commercial enterprises or "Good Samaritans" can respond. If not, after ten minutes, the CG is obligated to. Then, it makes the statement that the MARB must be carefully worded so as not to create an obligation on the part of the rescuee not to pay. I wondered how you do that. In the sample MARBs at the end of the section, they're simple and don't mention compensation. What I came away with was that the CG is obligated to respond and can't demand payment. My granddaughter's husband is in the CG, so I'll ask him. As far as San Antonio, that obviously wasn't involving the CG. Was it the county? My niece and her husband live near SA and they popped in for a short visit on Saturday. I wish this had come up before then because he's lived his entire life there and had a major car dealership. I'm sure he would know something about it. Funny but my wife was put off by his keeping his hat on in the house. I reminded her 1) he's bald and 2) he's from Texas...

The catch is…being out of fuel on the water, or other preventable breakdowns where the vessel/crew are not in imminent danger, CG will refuse aid and insist they seek help from other boaters or pay someone like SEATOW.
In cases of distress, they will answer the call; but it’s also the obligation of any mariner in the vicinity of the situation to render assistance if possible.
I’ve participated in two - once as crew on an OSV off of Port Aransas where we rescued the crew from a sailboat adrift, and second as captain of a crew boat that towed a shrimp boat that lost all power about 20 miles south of Dauphin Island. First case we were real close, second we answered the CG’s request for assistance because we were 30 minutes away and the only vessels they had that could handle the weather were over three hours away. Nasty tow into 25 knot norther.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

I work in a cap now. It's on my head as I type. It's like a Scot Golfer's cap. I never realized before chemo how much heat hair retains.

As soon as I leave the office, the hat comes off. It's not a vanity thing for me at all. My daughter, Mia, rocked being bald. I shaved my head when she was going through chemo in 2021, and have been bald since October. I really don't think my hair is coming back. My scalp looks like someone with alopecia. The hair that has come back is super fine and sparse.

I'm OK with it if I'm bald from now on. There are some obvious advantages.

Oddly enough, several years ago, I had to have my right side colon removed. It wasn't cancer, but they said it would have developed to that.

The catch is…being out of fuel on the water, or other preventable breakdowns where the vessel/crew are not in imminent danger, CG will refuse aid and insist they seek help from other boaters or pay someone like SEATOW.
In cases of distress, they will answer the call; but it’s also the obligation of any mariner in the vicinity of the situation to render assistance if possible.
I’ve participated in two - once as crew on an OSV off of Port Aransas where we rescued the crew from a sailboat adrift, and second as captain of a crew boat that towed a shrimp boat that lost all power about 20 miles south of Dauphin Island. First case we were real close, second we answered the CG’s request for assistance because we were 30 minutes away and the only vessels they had that could handle the weather were over three hours away. Nasty tow into 25 knot norther.

I did get a reply from my GSIL, and those are not his orders. There's nothing confidential in his reply, so, rather than a lengthy paraphrase, I'll just post his message back to me. He did say that a lot of people had mistaken ideas about the CG and their role...

"Well as far as when and where we respond, it's whenever distress is called (hence major penalties for false distress) and wherever we are, good Samaritans are just that, people who assist as they are able and willing, just as in the parable, there are no social or legal requirements to assist; however, there are also NGAs that also assist, like TowBoatUS where in certain areas, due to their lobbying when there is no urgent medical requirement, we must allow them to respond within the scope of there technical expertise. Also there is a US code that specifically provides the uscg the ability to SEIZE civilian assets in major casualty events, think like 9/11, however I'm not familiar with which code or what thresholds must be meet to impose it. As for demanding compensation, since in the eyes of the law the uscg is a law enforcement agency we are legally obligated NOT too receive compensation, donation, or gifts.

But at the end of the day barring outside agreements with civilian businesses the coast guard must respond within the limitations of the vessels we operate and the capability of our operators Good Samaritans are supplemental, not a replacement. They usually assist searches and occasionally transfers to and sometimes through the coast guard's arrival"
(I apologize for the long break in his two messages, but TF's software won't let me eliminate it.)

 

[TIDE-HSV]

The catch is…being out of fuel on the water, or other preventable breakdowns where the vessel/crew are not in imminent danger, CG will refuse aid and insist they seek help from other boaters or pay someone like SEATOW.
In cases of distress, they will answer the call; but it’s also the obligation of any mariner in the vicinity of the situation to render assistance if possible.
I’ve participated in two - once as crew on an OSV off of Port Aransas where we rescued the crew from a sailboat adrift, and second as captain of a crew boat that towed a shrimp boat that lost all power about 20 miles south of Dauphin Island. First case we were real close, second we answered the CG’s request for assistance because we were 30 minutes away and the only vessels they had that could handle the weather were over three hours away. Nasty tow into 25 knot norther.

I've just quoted my GSIL's reply:

"Well as far as when and where we respond, it's whenever distress is called (hence major penalties for false distress) and wherever we are, good Samaritans are just that, people who assist as they are able and willing, just as in the parable, there are no social or legal requirements to assist; however, there are also NGAs that also assist, like TowBoatUS where in certain areas, due to their lobbying when there is no urgent medical requirement, we must allow them to respond within the scope of there technical expertise. Also there is a US code that specifically provides the uscg the ability to SEIZE civilian assets in major casualty events, think like 9/11, however I'm not familiar with which code or what thresholds must be meet to impose it. As for demanding compensation, since in the eyes of the law the uscg is a law enforcement agency we are legally obligated NOT too receive compensation, donation, or gifts. But at the end of the day barring outside agreements with civilian businesses the coast guard must respond within the limitations of the vessels we operate and the capability of our operators Good Samaritans are supplemental, not a replacement. They usually assist searches and occasionally transfers to and sometimes through the coast guard's arrival"...

 

[PaulD]

There are spots on the west and NW parts of San Antonio that are dry until they get a notable rain. Years ago some guy went through a barricade and had to be rescued. He was billed for the rescue.

I lived on the far west side of San Antonio (near Sea World) from 1986 to 1999. There's a place behind Ingram Park Mall that always flooded and it was rare that the Fire Department didn't have to pull someone out. That led to a city ordinance authorizing billing.

Literally my first evening in SA, I drove by what looked like a yardstick stuck by the side of the road. I learned that they were there to tell you how deep the water was.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

I lived on the far west side of San Antonio (near Sea World) from 1986 to 1999. There's a place behind Ingram Park Mall that always flooded and it was rare that the Fire Department didn't have to pull someone out. That led to a city ordinance authorizing billing.

Literally my first evening in SA, I drove by what looked like a yardstick stuck by the side of the road. I learned that they were there to tell you how deep the water was.

Sounds like an excellent idea. I can think of areas around HSV which could use that...

 

[Padreruf]

Sounds like an excellent idea. I can think of areas around HSV which could use that...

Charleston is right there with you two...downtown Charleston, near the Battery, floods with a really good high tide!

 

[TexasBama]

I lived on the far west side of San Antonio (near Sea World) from 1986 to 1999. There's a place behind Ingram Park Mall that always flooded and it was rare that the Fire Department didn't have to pull someone out. That led to a city ordinance authorizing billing.

Literally my first evening in SA, I drove by what looked like a yardstick stuck by the side of the road. I learned that they were there to tell you how deep the water was.

As you know, once you get west and north of downtown, it's maybe two feet of topsoil; and then rock. It doesn't take much rain to cause those washes to flood. About one inch of rain would raise the Edward aquifer level about one foot. Interesting, I remember one year, circa 2004, when it rained so much that the aquifer was full, like 703 feet level in their monitoring well. You could tell because there was a notable amount of water flowing in Cibolo Creek where is passes under IH-35 on the NE side of town.
Normally, that water doesn't make it that far because it flows into the aquifer somewhere between there and Boerne.