The Church Thread: Chapter I Verse I

[CrimsonJazz]

True, but Buddhism, Shinto, Hinduism do not have the injunction to love your neighbors as Christ loved you.

I'm not naive enough to say that the Spanish Armada was about transubstantiation or the primacy of the Bishop of Rome. It was two major Europeans powers going at it over politics and religion was overlaid on the pre-existing conflict. Religion may have intensified the emotions, but it was about politics. North Ireland vs the Britain was not about Rome vs Canterbury. It was Irish nationalism versus British nationalism and Catholic vs Protestant was overlaid on that conflict.

Politics and religion have always had an incestuous relationship. I believe the Protestant Reformation would have been short-lived without the interjection of the body politic.

Even today, religion plays a massive role in U.S. elections. I’d be willing to bet that most of the support for Israel in this country (at least on the right) is based entirely on dispensationalist theology.

 

[bamacpa]

I grew up in a Protestant church and still cling to my faith but we are not very active in our church. I'm not proud of that but having your spouse work at a church ( another Protestant denomination ) soured us.

 

[Huckleberry]

Three Decades Ago, America Lost Its Religion. Why?

“Not religious” has become a specific American identity—one that distinguishes secular, liberal whites from the conservative, evangelical right.

www.theatlantic.com

Three Decades Ago, America Lost Its Religion. Why?
“Not religious” has become a specific American identity—one that distinguishes secular, liberal whites from the conservative, evangelical right.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

Three Decades Ago, America Lost Its Religion. Why?

“Not religious” has become a specific American identity—one that distinguishes secular, liberal whites from the conservative, evangelical right.

www.theatlantic.com

Three Decades Ago, America Lost Its Religion. Why?
“Not religious” has become a specific American identity—one that distinguishes secular, liberal whites from the conservative, evangelical right.

Although belief in God is no panacea for these problems, religion is more than a theism. It is a bundle: a theory of the world, a community, a social identity, a means of finding peace and purpose, and a weekly routine. Those, like me, who have largely rejected this package deal, often find themselves shopping à la carte for meaning, community, and routine to fill a faith-shaped void. Their politics is a religion. Their work is a religion. Their spin class is a church. And not looking at their phone for several consecutive hours is a Sabbath.

American nones may well build successful secular systems of belief, purpose, and community. But imagine what a devout believer might think: Millions of Americans have abandoned religion, only to re-create it everywhere they look.

These last two paragraphs sum up the whole issue for me. There is a reason that "identity politics" has blown a hole through the roof. As far as I can tell, statism is basically a new religion minus the deity. To be sure, the issue runs far more deeply and is much more complex than this, but realistically if someone eliminates something from his or her life, it will eventually be replaced with something else. Americans are just naturally ritualistic; it seems to be embedded right into our DNA.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

You can replace "religion" with "god". Politics, work, cell phones, etc. have become a lot of peoples' "god". You can also throw in entertainment. But the funny thing is, this is nothing new. Jesus and many who authored books of the Bible warned people of that day about making earthly things their "gods". And here we have (who I assume is an atheist) an atheist stating that is exactly what he and many others have done in 2024. LOL! "There is nothing new under the sun"...


From the Article:

 

[CrimsonJazz]

You can replace "religion" with "god". Politics, work, cell phones, etc. have become a lot of peoples' "god". You can also throw in entertainment. But the funny thing is, this is nothing new. Jesus and many who authored books of the Bible warned people of that day about making earthly things their "gods". And here we have (who I assume is an atheist) an atheist stating that is exactly what he and many others have done in 2024. LOL! "There is nothing new under the sun"...


From the Article:
View attachment 45016

Yep, that part grabbed me as well. And yes, I agree. Funny thing, that....talking with our priest some time back, we were considering this very issue. His way of saying it was that we are all born with a "God-sized" hole in our hearts and while we can attempt to fill that hole with every distraction and belief under the sun, only God can fill a "God-sized hole." I pondered this a great deal later that day.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Yep, that part grabbed me as well. And yes, I agree. Funny thing, that....talking with our priest some time back, we were considering this very issue. His way of saying it was that we are all born with a "God-sized" hole in our hearts and while we can attempt to fill that hole with every distraction and belief under the sun, only God can fill a "God-sized hole." I pondered this a great deal later that day.

The idea of a higher power didn't come from man. It came from God. He placed it there.

 

[JDCrimson]

Sort of like, if you work in the chicken plant you dont want to eat chicken?

I grew up in a Protestant church and still cling to my faith but we are not very active in our church. I'm not proud of that but having your spouse work at a church ( another Protestant denomination ) soured us.

 

[bamacpa]

Sort of like, if you work in the chicken plant you dont want to eat chicken?

Yes. It was disappointing to see how she was treated. But, we know all churches are not like that and yet we are reluctant to dive in fully where we are members.

 

[JDCrimson]

Its probably best to work in one church and worship in another so that you avoid the conflict between the roles.

Yes. It was disappointing to see how she was treated. But, we know all churches are not like that and yet we are reluctant to dive in fully where we are members.

 

[Go Bama]

Yes. It was disappointing to see how she was treated. But, we know all churches are not like that and yet we are reluctant to dive in fully where we are members.

My wife is our church financial secretary. She hasn’t been to church services in a couple of years now. It’s just a few people who are the problem, but those people have appointed themselves as the most important people in the church. I’m surprised she hasn’t already quit.

 

[bamacpa]

We stopped attending the church where she worked and after a few years of church seeking joined a congregation of another denomination. Our level of engagement has not returned yet. I hope it will. I would not have believed you if you told the young me that one day the church community would not be an active part of our lives.

 

[JDCrimson]

I feel much the same way. I believe my faith and values are stronger but interest in church has diminished. But the church is not feeding me. I believe many churches have lost their way either pursuing an angle of politics, social crusade, or religious entertainment rather than reminding us of our core mission as believers.

We stopped attending the church where she worked and after a few years of church seeking joined a congregation of another denomination. Our level of engagement has not returned yet. I hope it will. I would not have believed you if you told the young me that one day the church community would not be an active part of our lives.

 

[BamaInBham]

..Like everyone else, I've been through a lot of stuff and much of it has started to get my mind pointed toward what happens next. I have a bum ticker and one of these days, I'll simply be gone. Needless to say, this occupies my mind a great deal. I got married again in 2021 and I have dutifully gone to church with my wife every weekend since. This has been a good kick-start back into spirituality..

You are wise to consider your eternal destination - it is the matter of first importance and far outweighs any other consideration, including the church you choose. As Paul said to the Athenians, "God has appointed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through Jesus Christ.." Though some can resolve this issue with help from a church, many are "saved", then look for a church which IMO is the preferred path.

Your age or past is no hindrance. Just like an innocent 5 y/o, the solution is the same: Having an "evangelical past", the following citations are likely familiar to you, but it's good to be reminded. Jesus Christ says. "I am the way, and the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father, but through Me." "..the one who comes to Me, I will never cast out." "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

In summary: we are all sinners, thus we all need a Savior. God has provided that Savior in His Son Jesus Christ, Who paid for the sin of the world. As John the Baptist said, "Behold the Lamb of God Who takes away the sin of the world." God's Son is presented to man as the Savior promised to Adam and Eve in Gen 3. Simply believing in Him provides eternal salvation to the one who believes.

As you look for a church, doing so based on your own serious consideration of what the Bible says would be a good path.

 

[Tidewater]

I think the problem with churches is that they are full or people and people are inherently flawed.

 

[Padreruf]

Most of the seniors in our church attend because of the community in a SS class or other organization. We sing the old hymns and have the same order of worship that has existed in protestant churches since time immemorial. I've seen much worse motivations for attending church.

Our pastor avoids any controversy like the plague. He came 10+ years ago and the church had been marked by infighting for about 10 years. Now it is fairly docile...laissez faire Christianity if you please.

The downside to that is we never hear controversial issues addressed from the pulpit. The upside is that we never hear controversial issues...What we do hear is that God loves us; we need to be Christlike in our demeanor and relationships; and that means accepting and loving one another.

Works for me...most of the time.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

I think the problem with churches is that they are full or people and people are inherently flawed.

No doubt, even the mistakes and flaws of the original 12 are in the Bible on full display. I guess it's good to see examples of the earliest followers of Christ who screw up, but find their redemption anyway.

 

[BamaInBham]

I feel much the same way. I believe my faith and values are stronger but interest in church has diminished. But the church is not feeding me. I believe many churches have lost their way either pursuing an angle of politics, social crusade, or religious entertainment rather than reminding us of our core mission as believers.

So well said. Many well-meaning saints are being led astray and unfortunately, I see this only intensifying as the "culture"/"country" continues to slip away. It's difficult for well-instructed believers to hold the line; those unclear or wavering have almost no chance to withstand the temptation to fall prey.

If by "core mission as believers", you mean the proclamation of Jesus Christ as Savior, as well as, helping others, especially the saints and the poor, I could not agree more. That thought and the attendant conflict might deserve its own thread unless it has already been beaten to death.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

You are wise to consider your eternal destination - it is the matter of first importance and far outweighs any other consideration, including the church you choose. As Paul said to the Athenians, "God has appointed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through Jesus Christ.." Though some can resolve this issue with help from a church, many are "saved", then look for a church which IMO is the preferred path.

Your age or past is no hindrance. Just like an innocent 5 y/o, the solution is the same: Having an "evangelical past", the following citations are likely familiar to you, but it's good to be reminded. Jesus Christ says. "I am the way, and the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father, but through Me." "..the one who comes to Me, I will never cast out." "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

In summary: we are all sinners, thus we all need a Savior. God has provided that Savior in His Son Jesus Christ, Who paid for the sin of the world. As John the Baptist said, "Behold the Lamb of God Who takes away the sin of the world." God's Son is presented to man as the Savior promised to Adam and Eve in Gen 3. Simply believing in Him provides eternal salvation to the one who believes.

As you look for a church, doing so based on your own serious consideration of what the Bible says would be a good path.

I am definitely familiar with the Scriptures and I have multiple Bibles of varying translations. I have gotten some pretty weird looks from people who know I've been agnostic since 1997 or so when I explain that I've read the Bible cover-to-cover more than once. It is a huge part of my journey.

I now have a much greater appreciation for the early church fathers, whose writings give witness to what early Christianity looked and sounded like. (It does make a difference when one reads these writings for knowledge rather than looking for citations for yet another dry research paper.) I bought a copy of the Didache, too.

So I feel at least prepared to continue my journey in earnest. I still have a long way to go, but I've finally hit a comfortable place. It wasn't that long ago that even considering a conversation was outright laughable. I think it's a big step.

 

[Tidewater]

No doubt, even the mistakes and flaws of the original 12 are in the Bible on full display. I guess it's good to see examples of the earliest followers of Christ who screw up, but find their redemption anyway.

I have met some wonderful people, "give you the shirt off their back for you" kind of people. Then again, I've met some Jews and Muslims who would do the same.
At its best, Christianity inspires by example the best in human nature. At its worst, however, it gives excuses for petty or even vindictive attitudes. ("Those people who want to get green carpeting in the chapel area are evil!" or historically, "If you do not believe in transubstantiation, you are a heretic and I have to kill you!" or "If you say the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son, you're a heretic and I have to kill you!") That is tragic and, I believe, unChrist-like.