Russia Invades Ukraine XIX

[dtgreg]

And they literally laughed a Trump when he told them this during his first term.

Blind squirrel, broken clock - this seemed obvious to anyone not drunk on the green koolaid...

When you realize the Green Movement, as well-intentioned as it might be, is totally owned and operated by Putin.

 

[4Q Basket Case]

Being the greater outside power facing a weaker local power.

That is definitely a common point. Still, I see some differences as well.

The US could have squashed the Viet Cong and the NVA like a gnat. But chose not to for various political reasons. Rules of engagement tied both hands behind the US Army's back. Russia is trying to crush Ukraine like a gnat with everything it has. But it doesn't have the army to do that....except through a war of attrition. Which given their already-abysmal demographics will destroy their ability to pursue Putin's real desire -- a return to the Cold War borders.

Also, the Americans didn't have the substantially full support of the Vietnamese people. Some supported the US. A lot didn't. To them, we were just the latest in a string of round-eyed people trying to govern them. With the exception of the Donbas breakaway areas (which Russia already has), the Ukrainian people support the war.

So you're right in that a greater power was being held in check by a lesser local power. The main difference I see is that in Vietnam, the Americans effectively chose to be held in check by way of highly restrictive rules of engagement. In Ukraine, the Russians are superior in numbers only -- which may yet win it for them. IOW, they are being held in check by their opponent, not their own choices.

 

[Tidewater]

When you realize the Green Movement, as well-intentioned as it might be, is totally owned and operated by Putin.

After the end of the Cold War, Russia made available (briefly) documents showing how the KGB funded and pushed the "nuclear freeze" movement, especially in Europe. A considerable amount of the movement's money came from the KGB (through various front organizations).

 

[Tidewater]

https://www.reuters.com/world/drone-breaches-romanian-airspace-during-russian-attack-neighboring-ukraine-2025-09-13/

Drone breaches Romanian airspace during Russian attack on neighboring Ukraine

Romania scrambled fighter jets on Saturday when a drone breached the country's airspace during a Russian attack on Ukrainian infrastructure near the border, the defense ministry said.

Defense Minister Ionut Mosteanu said the F-16 pilots came close to taking down the drone as it was flying very low before it left national airspace toward Ukraine.

A threat of drone strikes also prompted Poland to deploy aircraft and close an airport in the eastern city of Lublin on Saturday, three days after it shot down Russian drones in its airspace with the backing of aircraft from its NATO allies.

This data point indicates that the Polish air space violation was an attempt to get around Ukrainian air defenses and attack Ukraine from the rear because it looks like the violation of Romanian air space was for that purposes.

 

[arthurdawg]

After the end of the Cold War, Russia made available (briefly) documents showing how the KGB funded and pushed the "nuclear freeze" movement, especially in Europe. A considerable amount of the movement's money came from the KGB (through various front organizations).

The Russians have done and continue to do a great job spinning the noggins of Europeans and Americans to the desired setting.

 

[Its On A Slab]

After the end of the Cold War, Russia made available (briefly) documents showing how the KGB funded and pushed the "nuclear freeze" movement, especially in Europe. A considerable amount of the movement's money came from the KGB (through various front organizations).

And also how strong and vibrant the economy of the DDR was. When in reality, it was in shambles.

Decades after WW2, there were still bombed out buildings behind the Iron Curtain.

 

[Tidewater]

The Russians have done and continue to do a great job spinning the noggins of Europeans and Americans to the desired setting.

It's cheap and easy. It turn's the West's defining characteristics (freedom of speech) against the West. We'll let anybody have their say.

 

[Tidewater]

And also how strong and vibrant the economy of the DDR was. When in reality, it was in shambles.

Decades after WW2, there were still bombed out buildings behind the Iron Curtain.

In Berlin today, you can tell where the Wall used to be. All the architecture east of it is new (built after 1991).
The last rubble was removed from East Berlin in 1977.

 

[92tide]

In Berlin today, you can tell where the Wall used to be. All the architecture east of it is new (built after 1991).
The last rubble was removed from East Berlin in 1977.

in my previous job i travelled to berlin quite a bit. it's a lovely city.

 

[Tidewater]

in my previous job i travelled to berlin quite a bit. it's a lovely city.

And great mass transit.

 

[92tide]

And great mass transit.

the airport is the one exception 😀

 

[Tidewater]

the airport is the one exception 😀

The new one? Gawd, what a mess.
Know what is really nice? The Vienna airport and mass transit system. Super easy, affordable, and of, course, thoughtfully organized.

 

[92tide]

The new one? Gawd, what a mess.
Know what is really nice? The Vienna airport and mass transit system. Super easy, affordable, and of, course, thoughtfully organized.

did they finally open the new one? last time i was there was February 2020 and we flew out of tegel (?) which gave goat shows a bad name. I find it hard to fathom a worse travel experience. we had heard for years that the new one was opening “next year”

 

[Its On A Slab]

The new one? Gawd, what a mess.
Know what is really nice? The Vienna airport and mass transit system. Super easy, affordable, and of, course, thoughtfully organized.

We did a whrilwind minimalist 3 week run thru Vienna, Prague Krakau, Paris last year. Vienna was one of the top places we visited. Loved the vibe, the people. Clean.

 

[Tidewater]

We did a whrilwind minimalist 3 week run thru Vienna, Prague Krakau, Paris last year. Vienna was one of the top places we visited. Loved the vibe, the people. Clean.

I used to like Paris (I guess I still do, but the shine is off a bit), but Vienna has the museums, the statues, the architecture, and a wonderful mass transit system. And as you said, clean (very clean compared to Paris).
My daughter and I bought the three-day all you can ride pass for buses, trolleys, and subway. Very convenient and well worth it.
Plus we found Austrians to be like Germans in their organizational skills, but a little more relaxed than Germans.

 

[Its On A Slab]

I used to like Paris (I guess I still do, but the shine is off a bit), but Vienna has the museums, the statues, the architecture, and a wonderful mass transit system. And as you said, clean (very clean compared to Paris).
My daughter and I bought the three-day all you can ride pass for buses, trolleys, and subway. Very convenient and well worth it.
Plus we found Austrians to be like Germans in their organizational skills, but a little more relaxed than Germans.

I found that true with the locals in Vienna. Very helpful. Most spoke perfect English.

We enjoyed Paris, but it was our least favorite. I don't think I ever will go back. I've seen everything there....well, except for Notre Dame.

 

[Bamaro]

And great mass transit.

That's socialism

 

[Tidewater]

That's socialism

Depends on how you define the term "socialism."
True the Franz-Josef Bahn (the railroad now running from the airport to the Hauptbahnhof in Vienna) is now government-owned, but it was built by a private company and nationalized by the Austrian Empire.
That is not the same thing as the Austrian government using the Franz-Josef Bahn to run steel mills. The Austrian government uses the Franz-Josef Ban to move passengers.
This is also socialism:

The Bronx in 1983 (publicly owned housing).

 

[Tidewater]

Russia using jet-propelled drones against Ukraine.
Ukraine says Russia's new jet-powered attack drone is full of foreign parts and immune to electronic warfare
"The Geran-3 is notably outfitted with a satellite navigation system that appears resistant to the extensive electronic warfare tactics ... Nearly 50 foreign components are inside the Geran-3, with origins in a handful of Western countries — including the US, UK, Switzerland, and Germany — and China, the HUR said. Beijing has long been accused of providing critical technology to Russia, a claim it has denied."

 

[some_al_fan]

I used to like Paris (I guess I still do, but the shine is off a bit), but Vienna has the museums, the statues, the architecture, and a wonderful mass transit system. And as you said, clean (very clean compared to Paris).
My daughter and I bought the three-day all you can ride pass for buses, trolleys, and subway. Very convenient and well worth it.
Plus we found Austrians to be like Germans in their organizational skills, but a little more relaxed than Germans.

Vienna is a walkable city. We were there a few months ago for a couple of days and walked everywhere without using any transportation. Arrived by train and left by renting a car from a train station.
After Vienna, we drove our rental car to the Austrian Alps. Absolutely stunning views.