Buyers remorse for Freeze?

We_are_Bama

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This has got me thinking. We have not had any kind of foothold in the rivalry with them since The Bear was leaning up against the goalpost. 3 in a row has been as far as we have gotten, and we've only done that 3 times over the last 34 years. We are currently on a 3 game streak, and barring something STUPID happening (which is NOT outside the realm of possibility), we should make it 4 in a row against them for the first time since the early 70's to early 80's when we rattled off 9 straight. I'd LOVE to repay the 6, if nothing else, and we very well could, because it's going to take Freeze a bit to get this thing even up to what they were in Malzahn's waning days
 

selmaborntidefan

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This has got me thinking. We have not had any kind of foothold in the rivalry with them since The Bear was leaning up against the goalpost. 3 in a row has been as far as we have gotten, and we've only done that 3 times over the last 34 years. We are currently on a 3 game streak, and barring something STUPID happening (which is NOT outside the realm of possibility), we should make it 4 in a row against them for the first time since the early 70's to early 80's when we rattled off 9 straight. I'd LOVE to repay the 6, if nothing else, and we very well could, because it's going to take Freeze a bit to get this thing even up to what they were in Malzahn's waning days
Are we also going to pretend Alabama did not have a colossal advantage in the series prior to the invocation of scholarship reductions in 1976? That had at least something to do with the mammoth wins advantage Alabama once enjoyed. It's the same thing with the Shorthorns and Aggies - go look at how evened up that series is once the Blue Blood programs (and I'm willing to concede that in the early 70s, Texas qualified as such) couldn't sock away as many players as they wanted if for no other reason than to keep an opponent from getting them.

Bear in mind, it's not like we were smashing them on the field EVERY year even during the nine-game win streak (1973-81). Auburn entered the fourth quarter of those games with a shot to win five of nine times and went 0-5 in those games. The combination of the scholarship limitations (designed specifically to create parity), Bryant leaving the scene, Auburn getting Bo Jackson, and the game moving to an alternating home-and-home rivalry...all things that occurred between 1976 and 1989, a small window of time historically speaking.....evened out the playing field enough that it is unlikely barring an implosion of one program or the other that long winning streaks will ever happen in this series again.

Auburn's one long winning streak in this series, let's see:
a) began after the 1995 scholarship limitations began to hurt recruiting
b) coincided with the repeat violator findings of the NCAA that REALLY hurt us
c) saw us have a period of time where we had no less than FOUR HEAD COACHES in the span of only 31 months (none of them interim coaches btw)
d) was helped by Auburn going undefeated in 2004 at the same time we were in the doldrums

When will this scenario ever even happen again?

As a reminder, heavily crippled Alabama still was only one play away from winning 4 of those six games, two of them played in the CFB equivalent of The Black Hole.

The question right now is how much NIL is going to offset any supposed advantages Auburn (supposedly) derived from being the only team in CFB to ever pay players and cheat.

In the case of Ole Miss, we can see quite reasonably that they were nothing at all post-integration (an 8-4 team with the occasional good 10-win year, usually with several losing seasons interspersed) save for when Freeze's cold hard cash brought a bunch of black guys out of Chicago whose souls yearned to play for a bunch of Rebel-flag waving Klansmen in the buzzling metropolis of Oxford, Mississippi.

It's a little more difficult with Auburn to simply dismiss any and all good seasons they have as "they cheated," but at the same time, I suspect the openness of NIL may cut into their way of having done business successfully, too.

My suspicion is that NIL is going to create a scenario where what worked to draw Cam Newton will, yes, work to draw in other players AT ALL SCHOOLS...who then have zero incentive to actually earn it, having gotten paid up front.
 

davefrat

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I think Saban is right about Freeze, he is a great offensive mind and with the right level of talent can put an offense on the field that is very challenging to stop. I think the biggest issue is his ability to run an entire program the way it needs to be run for long term success.
May have something to do with the fact that he's a fraud.
 
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BamaMoon

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He’s treating it as a throwaway year and tiptoeing around flat out saying it.
I was wondering if that's his mindset.

Being able to tell recruits they can have instant starting spots at QB and WR (plus a nice NIL deal) can quicken a rebuild but that's a risky gamble. If by year 2 or 3 it's not going well then the Barbecue Boys will cycle in the next hope at HC.
 

BamaMoon

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This has got me thinking. We have not had any kind of foothold in the rivalry with them since The Bear was leaning up against the goalpost. 3 in a row has been as far as we have gotten, and we've only done that 3 times over the last 34 years. We are currently on a 3 game streak, and barring something STUPID happening (which is NOT outside the realm of possibility), we should make it 4 in a row against them for the first time since the early 70's to early 80's when we rattled off 9 straight. I'd LOVE to repay the 6, if nothing else, and we very well could, because it's going to take Freeze a bit to get this thing even up to what they were in Malzahn's waning days
Even with this Bama team, it would be a huge upset win for AU to get it together enough to win even at JHS.

Confidence is certainly higher with Steele over Gol*ing!
 

BamaMoon

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Are we also going to pretend Alabama did not have a colossal advantage in the series prior to the invocation of scholarship reductions in 1976? That had at least something to do with the mammoth wins advantage Alabama once enjoyed. It's the same thing with the Shorthorns and Aggies - go look at how evened up that series is once the Blue Blood programs (and I'm willing to concede that in the early 70s, Texas qualified as such) couldn't sock away as many players as they wanted if for no other reason than to keep an opponent from getting them.

Bear in mind, it's not like we were smashing them on the field EVERY year even during the nine-game win streak (1973-81). Auburn entered the fourth quarter of those games with a shot to win five of nine times and went 0-5 in those games. The combination of the scholarship limitations (designed specifically to create parity), Bryant leaving the scene, Auburn getting Bo Jackson, and the game moving to an alternating home-and-home rivalry...all things that occurred between 1976 and 1989, a small window of time historically speaking.....evened out the playing field enough that it is unlikely barring an implosion of one program or the other that long winning streaks will ever happen in this series again.

Auburn's one long winning streak in this series, let's see:
a) began after the 1995 scholarship limitations began to hurt recruiting
b) coincided with the repeat violator findings of the NCAA that REALLY hurt us
c) saw us have a period of time where we had no less than FOUR HEAD COACHES in the span of only 31 months (none of them interim coaches btw)
d) was helped by Auburn going undefeated in 2004 at the same time we were in the doldrums

When will this scenario ever even happen again?

As a reminder, heavily crippled Alabama still was only one play away from winning 4 of those six games, two of them played in the CFB equivalent of The Black Hole.

The question right now is how much NIL is going to offset any supposed advantages Auburn (supposedly) derived from being the only team in CFB to ever pay players and cheat.

In the case of Ole Miss, we can see quite reasonably that they were nothing at all post-integration (an 8-4 team with the occasional good 10-win year, usually with several losing seasons interspersed) save for when Freeze's cold hard cash brought a bunch of black guys out of Chicago whose souls yearned to play for a bunch of Rebel-flag waving Klansmen in the buzzling metropolis of Oxford, Mississippi.

It's a little more difficult with Auburn to simply dismiss any and all good seasons they have as "they cheated," but at the same time, I suspect the openness of NIL may cut into their way of having done business successfully, too.

My suspicion is that NIL is going to create a scenario where what worked to draw Cam Newton will, yes, work to draw in other players AT ALL SCHOOLS...who then have zero incentive to actually earn it, having gotten paid up front.
How we lost Bo Jackson to Auburn still infuriates me.

Bear sent an assistant and told him he'd have to wait to play and Dye assures him he'll play from day 1.

Rev is probably using that same playbook right now!
 
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Tideflyer

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From everything I read so far on their message boards, it's only a minority that are expressing their frustration with him because the play calling, development and coaching are below average. The vast majority adamantly believe he will be the " savior" they need to resurrect auburn to its rightful place in the SEC. Most are willing to give him a pass and are anxiously awaiting for his first true recuiting class to come in and instantly change auburn from bottom dwellers to conference contender. One poster said Freeze stated that the 24' and 25' recuiting class will define his tenure at the barn and was brutality honest about the lack of talent especially the QBs on the current roster. With all that I posted, I still don't understand the mindset of these barn fans who worship this hypocrite sleaze bag. Other than beating Bama b2b, what did he do at Ole Miss with all the talent he bought makes you think he's some kind of legendary coach ?? His teams in Oxford never won the division let alone a trip to Atlanta! His offense is nothing special ( the cult believes once he has a hand in it, watch out). Last thing, they all love his recuiting prowess and that alone for some fans is just enough to keep him on the plains.
"beating Bama b2b ".....Do they need any other reason?
 
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BamaMoon

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That coach was our defensive coordinator who told him he would play linebacker -- Ken Donahue I believe.
I think you are right on KD, but I thought he was being recruited as a running back, but told we had so many on the roster (as a wishbone team) he'd have to wait his turn.
 

TideEngineer08

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Are we also going to pretend Alabama did not have a colossal advantage in the series prior to the invocation of scholarship reductions in 1976? That had at least something to do with the mammoth wins advantage Alabama once enjoyed. It's the same thing with the Shorthorns and Aggies - go look at how evened up that series is once the Blue Blood programs (and I'm willing to concede that in the early 70s, Texas qualified as such) couldn't sock away as many players as they wanted if for no other reason than to keep an opponent from getting them.

Bear in mind, it's not like we were smashing them on the field EVERY year even during the nine-game win streak (1973-81). Auburn entered the fourth quarter of those games with a shot to win five of nine times and went 0-5 in those games. The combination of the scholarship limitations (designed specifically to create parity), Bryant leaving the scene, Auburn getting Bo Jackson, and the game moving to an alternating home-and-home rivalry...all things that occurred between 1976 and 1989, a small window of time historically speaking.....evened out the playing field enough that it is unlikely barring an implosion of one program or the other that long winning streaks will ever happen in this series again.

Auburn's one long winning streak in this series, let's see:
a) began after the 1995 scholarship limitations began to hurt recruiting
b) coincided with the repeat violator findings of the NCAA that REALLY hurt us
c) saw us have a period of time where we had no less than FOUR HEAD COACHES in the span of only 31 months (none of them interim coaches btw)
d) was helped by Auburn going undefeated in 2004 at the same time we were in the doldrums

When will this scenario ever even happen again?

As a reminder, heavily crippled Alabama still was only one play away from winning 4 of those six games, two of them played in the CFB equivalent of The Black Hole.

The question right now is how much NIL is going to offset any supposed advantages Auburn (supposedly) derived from being the only team in CFB to ever pay players and cheat.

In the case of Ole Miss, we can see quite reasonably that they were nothing at all post-integration (an 8-4 team with the occasional good 10-win year, usually with several losing seasons interspersed) save for when Freeze's cold hard cash brought a bunch of black guys out of Chicago whose souls yearned to play for a bunch of Rebel-flag waving Klansmen in the buzzling metropolis of Oxford, Mississippi.

It's a little more difficult with Auburn to simply dismiss any and all good seasons they have as "they cheated," but at the same time, I suspect the openness of NIL may cut into their way of having done business successfully, too.

My suspicion is that NIL is going to create a scenario where what worked to draw Cam Newton will, yes, work to draw in other players AT ALL SCHOOLS...who then have zero incentive to actually earn it, having gotten paid up front.
Very well said.

However, I would like to add that Auburn benefits massively in the overall series record from the fact that the two teams did not play one another from 1906 until 1948. It just so happens that the time period from the 1920s-1940s was one of Alabama's best eras and Auburn was not very good during any of that time frame. I do think Auburn was the better program during the 1910s, though. Still, there is little doubt Alabama would probably have about a 20 games more lead in the series record had there been no interruption during the first half of the 20th century.

Having said all that - yeah we make too much of this or that detail of our record against them. Auburn is a good program, historically, even if the University has typically been run by deranged, delusional lunatics.
 

Bamabuzzard

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May have something to do with the fact that he's a fraud.
Regardless of the reason, most coordinators fail as head coaches. There's only a small group of head coaches who sustain success for long periods of time, and the lion's share of them were coordinators before they got a head coaching gig. Running a program is a different animal and I don't think many people realize the degree of change there is going from a coordinator to a head coach. The majority either end up mediocre or failures.
 
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Padreruf

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I think you are right on KD, but I thought he was being recruited as a running back, but told we had so many on the roster (as a wishbone team) he'd have to wait his turn.
I've heard both versions then and through the years...the "play now" card is a smart one for the school without players. I was living in SE Alabama by the fall and attended the AU-Nebraska opener. UN destroyed them...but Bo Jackson was phenomenal. He literally took off outside the 5 yard line and summersaulted into the end zone @ 5 yards deep. I thought then, we are in for a battle for the next few years.
 
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NoNC4Tubs

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I've heard both versions then and through the years...the "play now" card is a smart one for the school without players. I was living in SE Alabama by the fall and attended the AU-Nebraska opener. UN destroyed them...but Bo Jackson was phenomenal. He literally took off outside the 5 yard line and summersaulted into the end zone @ 5 yards deep. I thought then, we are in for a battle for the next few years.
Was that the game NU blasted them 42-0? :unsure:
 

davefrat

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Regardless of the reason, most coordinators fail as head coaches. There's only a small group of head coaches who sustain success for long periods of time, and the lion's share of them were coordinators before they got a head coaching gig. Running a program is a different animal and I don't think many people realize the degree of change there is going from a coordinator to a head coach. The majority either end up mediocre or failures.
He doesn't seem like the kind of person his players can actually believe in, much less love the way that players love a guy like Saban, even while he's kicking them in the rear.

He's a liar and a sleezeball...and I would think many of the young men who play for him realize that sooner or later.
 

Bamabuzzard

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He doesn't seem like the kind of person his players can actually believe in, much less love the way that players love a guy like Saban, even while he's kicking them in the rear.

He's a liar and a sleezeball...and I would think many of the young men who play for him realize that sooner or later.
I get all that and personally, my moral and ethical standards fully agree with you. But unfortunately, in the realm of sports, winning covers a multitude of sins. We could run a list a mile long of coaches who have done despicable things yet continued to get hired time and time again because of one thing, WINNING.
 
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BamaInBham

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This has got me thinking. We have not had any kind of foothold in the rivalry with them since The Bear was leaning up against the goalpost. 3 in a row has been as far as we have gotten, and we've only done that 3 times over the last 34 years. We are currently on a 3 game streak, and barring something STUPID happening (which is NOT outside the realm of possibility), we should make it 4 in a row against them for the first time since the early 70's to early 80's when we rattled off 9 straight. I'd LOVE to repay the 6, if nothing else, and we very well could, because it's going to take Freeze a bit to get this thing even up to what they were in Malzahn's waning days
Bama has a winning record vs AU since Coach Bryant, that's including their 6 game streak where during all other similar periods without the serious sanctions Alabama would have typically won at least 3 of those games. Bama would have a 24-16 record instead of its 21-19 record.

Since 2008 BDS has been a House of Horrors for AU, with a 1-7 record, losing by an average of 28. Beaten like a drum time after time - no hope. During the same period J-H has been relatively tough with Bama going 4-3 (only BR has been close with Bama being 5-2 there, everywhere else unbeaten or once beaten). Hopefully, Bryce, Brooks and Metchie chased some of the goblins away in 21 by imposing that gut-wrenching loss on them. But Bama gut-punched them in 09 as well, still there was 13 and 19. 17 they were just better that day. But 21 was a real killer for them and saved Bama's season, winning the SEC and getting to the NC championship game.
 
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JohnD

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I fully expect to have to fight through a crapstorm down there as per usual. Ashford will probably start and play like first half Joe Milton.
 

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