Charlie Kirk Part III

[CrimsonJazz]

Trump inherited a world so centered on the US that, when we catch a cold, the entire world sneezes...

I am totally stealing this line.

 

[some_al_fan]

I would say that Putin's ideology is Imperial White Russian. Putin directed his advisors to read Ivan Ilyin
Ivan Ilyin, Putin’s Philosopher of Russian Fascism
It is a Pan-Slavic, nominally Orthodox Christian, Russian nationalism and imperialism. The "русский мир." These are articulated inter alia in Putin's 2007 Munich Speech and his article on "The Historic Unity of the Russian and Ukrainian People."

As for Xi, I have not read his works, but he seems to be willing to leverage elements of Chinese Communist ideology and the party organization itself plus elements of a liberal economic system (with heavy state intervention) to remain in power for life.

Britt's are pretty much what Slab posted. I think I showed that much of that could apply to the Lincoln Administration. Look ast the criteria again and ask yourself if these also applied to the USSR? Was the USSR also fascist? What about Mao's China?

The problem with Britt's criteria is that the devil's in the details. Are the criteria absolute or relative? For example, the "supremacy of the military." In what way is the US military "supreme" in the United States today? Here is a practical test: Do you think the military wants to furlough all the civil servants? It makes what they do more difficult, so why does the U.S. military simply take over the Capitol and issue a statement, "Okay, shut-down is over. Everyone back to work. The War Department will work out of budget details." So is the US military absolutely supreme or relatively more supreme than it was before?
Fraudulent elections. Virginia is going to hold elections next month. Will you declare now that the elections are fraudulent? Trump is in the White House. Will the 2026 federal elections be fraudulent? When is the fraudulency really going to begin? Or has it begun already? In Nazi Germany, the National Socialists declared the Communist Party (among others) illegal and the Enabling Act ended political opposition. Germany may have held things called elections afterwards, but only Nazi candidates were on the ballot.

So, in general I would accept Britt's criteria but the difficult bit will be in applying them honestly to the situation in the United States.

Ilyin is in the past. It is probably more accurate to say that Putin is influenced by Dugin, who also supports Trump’s ideas: https://theconversation.com/putins-...ionalist-who-has-endorsed-donald-trump-253466

“””””"
Aleksandr Dugin, sometimes referred to as “Putin’s brain” because of his ideological influence on Russian politics, endorsed the policies of Donald Trump in a CNN interview aired on March 30. Dugin said Trump’s America has a lot more in common with Putin’s Russia than most people think, adding: “Trumpists and the followers of Trump will understand much better what Russia is, who Putin is and the motivations of our politics.”
“””””””

With Putin, it is hard to tell what the truth is and what he is trying to show to cover his true motives. As you pointed to "The Historic Unity of the Russian and Ukrainian People.” or “Братские славянские народы”. That could be his real goal. Or it could also be a cover-up for a way to brainwash the population to stay in power forever. I don’t think that anyone knows the answer to this question.
I remember reading back in the early 2010s articles coming from Russia saying something like “Hitler could’ve been great if he had stopped at Sudetenland”. I did not pay much attention to them at that time. And then Crimea happened. And then Putin did not stop at Crimea…..

Going back to Trump…. You are absolutely correct that we are definitely far away from actual fascism right now. However, what I see is that Trump is leading us on the path towards fascism. And things are moving towards that direction every day. And we all hope that since Trump is not smart enough, and the Fox News anchors that he has surrounded himself with are not capable of getting us there.

 

[some_al_fan]

Look ast the criteria again and ask yourself if these also applied to the USSR? Was the USSR also fascist? What about Mao's China?

I am a firm believer in the horseshoe theory, which says that socialism & fascism are very similar ideologies.
Thus, the answer is No. USSR & Mao’s China were “socialists” instead of “fascists”, but the differences between “socialism” and “fascism” are pretty slight.

 

[Tidewater]

Ilyin is in the past. It is probably more accurate to say that Putin is influenced by Dugin, who also supports Trump’s ideas: https://theconversation.com/putins-...ionalist-who-has-endorsed-donald-trump-253466

“””””"
Aleksandr Dugin, sometimes referred to as “Putin’s brain” because of his ideological influence on Russian politics, endorsed the policies of Donald Trump in a CNN interview aired on March 30. Dugin said Trump’s America has a lot more in common with Putin’s Russia than most people think, adding: “Trumpists and the followers of Trump will understand much better what Russia is, who Putin is and the motivations of our politics.”
“””””””

With Putin, it is hard to tell what the truth is and what he is trying to show to cover his true motives. As you pointed to "The Historic Unity of the Russian and Ukrainian People.” or “Братские славянские народы”. That could be his real goal. Or it could also be a cover-up for a way to brainwash the population to stay in power forever. I don’t think that anyone knows the answer to this question.
I remember reading back in the early 2010s articles coming from Russia saying something like “Hitler could’ve been great if he had stopped at Sudetenland”. I did not pay much attention to them at that time. And then Crimea happened. And then Putin did not stop at Crimea…..

Dugin is a Eurasianists nutter. Eurasianism is useful to Putin, so he tolerates him.
Putin ordered his advisors, however to read Ilyin, which I think is illestrative. Of note, since 2023, Dugin has served as the director of the Ivan Ilyin Higher School of Politics at the Russian State University for the Humanities.
I've read Ilyin (professionally) and Dugin. Dugin is kind of a nutter, but a useful one at times.

 

[Bamaro]

I find this modern national discourse to be perversely entertaining. For as long as I've studied (in the classroom and in interaction) politics, constitutional law, economics, etc., I have been stuck by how the federal government has increased its role in our lives. Mostly, the authoritarianism moves at a creeping pace. Occasionally (e.g., Lincoln, FDR, LBJ, Biden, Trump) federal power expands rapidly. Sometimes it's naked aggression. Most of the time it's done due to a "crisis." However, when the "crisis" is over, government never retreats to it's previous levels.

One of those is not like the others and its not Biden who I'm not sure why he's listed.

 

[JDCrimson]

Yes, no I have not applied for immigration yet, yes, our family is armed although my firepower would likely not withstand a machine gun or drone barrage.

Are your passports in order and have you applied to immigrate to New Zealand? If you really believe that Trump is a fascist, then don't you think you have a moral obligation to arm yourself and train for what is coming?

 

[Bodhisattva]

One of those is not like the others and its not Biden who I'm not sure why he's listed.

The Biden administration is on my crap list for screwing up the eviction moratorium. His administration extended it and botched the compensation to landlords. And per usual, the government never realizes (or cares) how its policies pervert incentives. So, letting deadbeat tenants stay rent-free just encourages everyone to be a deadbeat tenant. That retarded scumbag cost my family more than $100k. This was a blatantly unconstitutional overreach, and it was eventually declared so by the Supreme Court. Biden showed once again how generous these ass hats are with other people's money, taking credit for pretending a policy is good, and ignoring all the damage caused.

 

[Huckleberry]

Duval County School Board members spark backlash with 'Turning Point' shirts

Public outrage erupts after Duval County School Board members wear controversial “Turning Point” shirts, sparking accusations of political messaging.

www.firstcoastnews.com

School board members wear Turning Point shirts to a public meeting while a teacher is disciplined for posting criticism of a Republican city councilman. Imagine the outrage if a teacher wore a Move On, BLM, or even a rainbow shirt to school. The hypocrisy is staggering and the implications clear: Conservative freedom of speech is the only one that matters to Republicans. All who disagree do so at their own peril.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

School board members wear Turning Point shirts to a public meeting while a teacher is disciplined for posting criticism of a Republican city councilman. Imagine the outrage if a teacher wore a Move On, BLM, or even a rainbow shirt to school. The hypocrisy is staggering and the implications clear: Conservative freedom of speech is the only one that matters to Republicans. All who disagree do so at their own peril.

The tribalists never fail to demonstrate this..... literally never.

 

[Tidewater]

Let's see...
Trump says he wants to be a dictator
He says he wants to punish his enemies.
He says media that badmouth him should be punished.

That by itself? Sure, rhetoric.

But, his IS drawing more power to himself, constitution be damned.
He HAS weaponized the DoJ to punish his enemies.
He HAS attacked unfriendly media.
He HAS made absolute loyalty the only qualification for federal position.

That's not just rhetoric--those are actions.

Trump doesn't have to have the mental capacity to plan it--he's got the Heritage Foundation for that (see Project 2025).

Apologies about the delay in responding. I caught a cold. I did not want you to think I was ignoring you.
Let me conclude with this: Trump has said a lot of ill-advised things. He and his subordinates have also done a lot of ill-advised things that show Trump to be petty, vindictive, unfit for public office, he may even have violated the law.
But the things you described above do add up to authoritarianism, but not (yet) fascism.

Imagine reviving real fascists, Hitler/Mussolini/Pinochet and explaining Trump's actions:
"A comedian said bad things about Trump on television."
"Good. Then what? He had the guy killed, right?"
"Nope."
"Well, he threw the comedian into prison, right?"
"Nope."
"Well, then what did our fellow fascist leader do? What happened to the comedian?"
"Trump got him suspended. Temporarily. The comedian's back on the air."
"What? Suspended?"


"Next, there was a publicly funded radio network that was broadcasting anti-Trump propaganda."
"Well, Trump sent in the Army to shoot the place up, right?
"Nope."
"Well, he killed all the offending leaders so everyone could see, right"
"Nope."
"So, what did Trump do to this Bolshevik network?"
"He cut off their public funding and they went right on broadcasting."
"He cut off public funding? What a wuss."

"This Trump fellow is no fascist. He is too weak in the face of legal restrictions to join our club."

A couple of light-hearted examples, but you get the point. He is not in the same universe with Hitler/Mussolini/Pinochet. Not yet. If he gets there, I'll join you on the ramparts.

At this point, calling him a fascist is just overwrought.

I'll shut up now and give you the last word.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Apologies about the delay in responding. I caught a cold. I did not want you to think I was ignoring you.
Let me conclude with this: Trump has said a lot of ill-advised things. He and his subordinates) have also done a lot of ill-advised things that show Trump to be petty, vindictive, unfit for public office, he may violate the law.
But the things you described above do add up to authoritarianism, but not (yet) fascism.

Imagine reviving real fascists, Hitler/Mussolini/Pinochet and explaining Trump's actions:
"A comedian said bad things about Trump on television."
"Good. Then what? He had the guy killed, right?"
"Nope."
"Well, he threw the comedian into prison, right?"
"Nope."
"Well, then what did our fellow fascist leader do? What happened to the comedian?"
"Trump got him suspended. Temporarily. The comedian's back on the air."
"What? Suspended?"


"Next, there was a publicly funded radio network that was broadcasting anti-Trump propaganda."
"Well, Trump sent in the Army to shoot the place up, right?
"Nope."
"Well, he killed all the offending leaders so everyone could see, right"
"Nope."
"So, what did Trump do to this Bolshevik network?"
"He cut off their public funding and they went right on broadcasting."
"He cut off public funding? What a wuss."

"This Trump fellow is no fascist. He is not hateful enough to join our club."

A couple of light-hearted examples, but you get the point. He is not in the same universe with Hitler/Mussolini/Pinochet. Not yet. If he gets there, I'll join you on the ramparts.

At this point, calling him a fascist is just overwrought.

I'll shut up now and give you the last word.

And that might well be too late...

 

[Tidewater]

Support for Political Violence Among Americans
No comment.
Some of the graphs.
Political leanings.


Age cohort.

Education level.

 

[Its On A Slab]

Support for Political Violence Among Americans
No comment.
Some of the graphs.

Age cohort.
View attachment 53513
Education level.
View attachment 53515

It's funny how that graph trends.

According to multiple sources (CATO Institute, CSIS, Brookings, etc.), right-wing ideology is responsible for more deaths from domestic political/extremist violence in recent years than left-wing or Islamist ideologies.

So i am not sure where the graphs came from, and if they are accurate.

 

[Tidewater]

It's funny how that graph trends.

According to multiple sources (CATO Institute, CSIS, Brookings, etc.), right-wing ideology is responsible for more deaths from domestic political/extremist violence in recent years than left-wing or Islamist ideologies.

So i am not sure where the graphs came from, and if they are accurate.

Yeah.
The Devil is always in the details. What was the methodology for selecting respondents? How were the questions phrased?

 

[Tidewater]

It's funny how that graph trends.

According to multiple sources (CATO Institute, CSIS, Brookings, etc.), right-wing ideology is responsible for more deaths from domestic political/extremist violence in recent years than left-wing or Islamist ideologies.

So i am not sure where the graphs came from, and if they are accurate.

What I found really scary is the age breakdown. between 40% (those calling themselves conservative) to 49% (liberal) agreed with the statement "Violence is often necessary to create social change."
Where the heck did these kids learn that?
How can it Gen. Z young people never learned about freedom of speech?

 

[JDCrimson]

Do we really know what is and isnt being taught in school these days? Even back when I was back in school our Government teacher didnt spend much time on the Constitution. Unless you are a lawyer you likey have a very shallow understanding of our constitutional protections. We certainly dont know what treason looks like...

What I found really scary is the age breakdown. between 40% (those calling themselves conservative) to 49% (liberal) agreed with the statement "Violence is often necessary to create social change."
Where the heck did these kids learn that?
How can it Gen. Z young people never learned about freedom of speech?

 

[arthurdawg]

Yeah.
The Devil is always in the details. What was the methodology for selecting respondents? How were the questions phrased?

No kidding. Shermer is a bit of a wild card and has shifted rightward so I wonder how this was set up.

Anecdotally… I certainly don’t see this amongst my peers. But it is a small sample. And I certainly don’t see the wealthier people I know wanting social unrest… that would lead to less wealth for them!

 

[CrimsonJazz]

Do we really know what is and isnt being taught in school these days? Even back when I was back in school our Government teacher didnt spend much time on the Constitution. Unless you are a lawyer you likey have a very shallow understanding of our constitutional protections. We certainly dont know what treason looks like...

Interesting. I learned civics from a Vietnam Vet turned teacher. And bear in mind, this was AFTER they decided that civics should be replaced by something as retarded as “social studies.” He wasn’t fooled by this and (thank God) neither was I.

 

[Tidewater]

Do we really know what is and isnt being taught in school these days? Even back when I was back in school our Government teacher didnt spend much time on the Constitution. Unless you are a lawyer you likey have a very shallow understanding of our constitutional protections. We certainly dont know what treason looks like...

I do not know if the schools are to blame. Adults in young peoples' lives should advise them that there will be people in the world who disgree with them and that does not necessarily mean they are terrible people. That seems not to be happening as regularly as it should.

 

[Tug Tide]

Yes, it’s hard to know word for word what is being said in the classroom.
But…. Any parent that doesn’t know what texts their children are reading, what assignments they’re asked to complete etc. is simply not doing their job.