Science: COVID-19 Vaccine Issues and New Poll Part VI

[Tider n LA]

I thank god every day that I am not a republican or democrat!!!!!!!!!!!!! Those two parties are horrible!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bazza]

I thank god every day that I am not a republican or democrat!!!!!!!!!!!!! Those two parties are horrible!!!!!!!!!!!!!

With you on that, brother!

 

[Bazza]

If you believe that I have a bridge to sell ya...

It takes a long time because it is a tedious and long process and there are numerous bureaucracies involved. They are moving heaven and Earth to speed that process along or we would not be talking about full approval until another few years had passed.

Maybe this will help:

Why Is the FDA Taking So Long to Fully Approve the COVID Vaccines?

In one poll, roughly 30 percent of unvaccinated people said they'd be more likely to get a fully approved vaccine.

slate.com

Thanks NT - I appreciate the info!

 

[tattooguy21]

She has been disciplined for it a few times and is now leaving that job because she doesn't want to deal with the "liberal management". She and her partners sold their practice to this medical group. She has been doing this for 20+ years.

She is going to work for the VA now.

Jaaaaaaysus, now you're pawning her off on me?! Thanks dude.

 

[crimsonaudio]

Just got back from a week-long vacation at our favorite beach house in FL (private beach access is worth the cost!). For the first time ever on vacation I bought all our food at Publix and local markets and cooked everything at the house - we didn't have a single meal out. Just too many folks carrying on like nothing in the world is happening, so we stayed isolated (and had a great vacation).

 

[crimsonaudio]

 

[tattooguy21]

Bottom line: even though everyone has the right to determine their own course in most situations, special circumstances can cause that to change and it is well within the scope of the police powers of government during a public health crisis to force people to do things they might not otherwise do in order to protect others' health.

Yeah, no, that's not a thing. And it shouldn't be s thing. The Supreme Court has said states and private businesses can say "if you want to come here, vaccine required" but saying that you, as a member of this state etc are required to be vaccinated, isn't a thing.

And shouldn't be a thing. Govt should not be able to mandate what shots you get. I can't go to the movies cause I'm not vaccinated, aww shucks. I can't live in America cause I'm not vaccinated, no thank you.

 

[tattooguy21]

I understand the body autonomy completely. And especially in African American populations, since they have been used as test subjects in the past.

However, those that say there is no precedent for mass forced inoculations & *my rights* only have to look to the Founding to find a case for it, involving one of our own very favorite Founding Fathers.

Where did the article “George Washington and the First Mass Military Inoculation” go? - Ask a Librarian

www.loc.gov

Sorry, but this isn't a precedent. It's not actually even an argument. The military is a completely different segment of society governed by state, federal, and a whole nother book of laws (UCMJ).

Our requirements for vaccination in no way, shape, or form are derived from the civilian populations policies, anymore than yours from ours. The bar is so high for this requirement that under the current condition of the vaccines (EUA) there's only 2 ways a service member can be forced to take it;

1) FDA approval which means its no longer EUA which means it can be mandated by the military or

2) President's order per the informed consent act.
After that, unless there is medical or religious exemption, it's happening or punishments coming.

In the Washington case, people volunteered to sign up for the military (an option) and were given the order to do so (A consequence).

A private citizen should not have to be forced to vaccinate, regardless of how bad/ good the reason.

 

[tattooguy21]

It's the classic Catch-22 - don't speed the process along and catch flack for being so slow, but do speed the process along as happened during emergency authorization and people lose their minds saying it was rushed. Damned if you do, damned if you don't with people who have already made up their mind to be against it no matter what anyway.

Honestly, the FDA is doing a great and expedient job. SERIOUSLY. Anyone here ever actually tracked the timeline for this type of thing? The fact that from scratch it's at FDA approval level with newer technique/ technology that has yet to have an FDA approval in less than 2 years is insane.

We're all watching the water boil though. That's the issue. Make no mistake, should the FDA approve it this September, I think it will have broken records on every previous vaccine.

Why Hasn’t The FDA Fully Approved Any Covid-19 Vaccines Yet?

It’s a long and arduous process that requires tons of data. Plus, the agency wants to rebuild trust after coming under attack during the Trump Administration.

www.forbes.com

 

[tattooguy21]

it is the current stall tactic, as soon as it is fully approved they will move the goalposts. I suspect they will go with "it was only approved because of politics".

Not me. My first post on this thread was based on this exact qualifier. I'll even post my bandaid covered arm when the qualifier is met and I get stabbed. Hold me to it.

 

[Bazza]

Just got back from a week-long vacation at our favorite beach house in FL (private beach access is worth the cost!). For the first time ever on vacation I bought all our food at Publix and local markets and cooked everything at the house - we didn't have a single meal out. Just too many folks carrying on like nothing in the world is happening, so we stayed isolated (and had a great vacation).

Sounds like me every day here.

The biggest public health crisis I face each day is those idiot Florida drivers on their cell phones!

 

[tattooguy21]

a massive failure, no matter how you cut it.

a lot of these people also spend money for ear wax candles and magic footpads that remove toxins

Dude, you clearly haven't tried the footpads. I can dunk now cause of those things.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Not me. My first post on this thread was based on this exact qualifier. I'll even post my bandaid covered arm when the qualifier is met and I get stabbed. Hold me to it.

I'll venture six weeks...

 

[tattooguy21]

I'll venture six weeks...

Quite possible. I keep hearing the FDA rumblings, and I know the President really wants it done, but also really doesn't want to have to mandate it to the troops.

Case in point, the federal employee mandate could have easily said "and military" instead of "excluding military." Nothing's changed since then. It was in his power then and still is now. I don't presume to know why he didn't. I guess it has a negative perception to force a segment of people to do something like this. Don't read this as my opinion of his ultimate decision. As I've said, if he says it, I do it. I'm just not sure what else would be guiding the decision, except maybe hoping for the FDA softball to come sooner than later, making this a non-issue for him.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Quite possible. I keep hearing the FDA rumblings, and I know the President really wants it done, but also really doesn't want to have to mandate it to the troops.

Case in point, the federal employee mandate could have easily said "and military" instead of "excluding military." Nothing's changed since then. It was in his power then and still is now. I don't presume to know why he didn't. I guess it has a negative perception to force a segment of people to do something like this. Don't read this as my opinion of his ultimate decision. As I've said, if he says it, I do it. I'm just not sure what else would be guiding the decision, except maybe hoping for the FDA softball to come sooner than later, making this a non-issue for him.

My guess...

 

[NationalTitles18]

Yeah, no, that's not a thing. And it shouldn't be s thing. The Supreme Court has said states and private businesses can say "if you want to come here, vaccine required" but saying that you, as a member of this state etc are required to be vaccinated, isn't a thing.

And shouldn't be a thing. Govt should not be able to mandate what shots you get. I can't go to the movies cause I'm not vaccinated, aww shucks. I can't live in America cause I'm not vaccinated, no thank you.

SCOTUS, for better or worse, has set the precedent.

States already require vaccines for school attendance.

It can be done.

Should it be done is another issue.

Should it not be done is an entirely different question.

I don't think anyone has the will right now to require it.

Whether they will in the future depends on circumstances, I would think. If it gets bad enough then all bets are off.

How bad will it get before it gets better?

Will it get better.

I have to believe it will, but it's gonna take a while.

Honestly, the FDA is doing a great and expedient job. SERIOUSLY. Anyone here ever actually tracked the timeline for this type of thing? The fact that from scratch it's at FDA approval level with newer technique/ technology that has yet to have an FDA approval in less than 2 years is insane.

We're all watching the water boil though. That's the issue. Make no mistake, should the FDA approve it this September, I think it will have broken records on every previous vaccine.

Why Hasn’t The FDA Fully Approved Any Covid-19 Vaccines Yet?

It’s a long and arduous process that requires tons of data. Plus, the agency wants to rebuild trust after coming under attack during the Trump Administration.

www.forbes.com

The previous fastest was mumps - 4 years. This more than cuts that in half. As impatient as we all are this has been blazing fast and remarkably successful and both together is a modern miracle, which makes what is happening all the more tragic and incomprehensible.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

SCOTUS, for better or worse, has set the precedent.

States already require vaccines for school attendance.

It can be done.

Should it be done is another issue.

Should it not be done is an entirely different question.

I don't think anyone has the will right now to require it.

Whether they will in the future depends on circumstances, I would think. If it gets bad enough then all bets are off.

How bad will it get before it gets better?

Will it get better.

I have to believe it will, but it's gonna take a while.



The previous fastest was mumps - 4 years. This more than cuts that in half. As impatient as we all are this has been blazing fast and remarkably successful and both together is a modern miracle, which makes what is happening all the more tragic and incomprehensible.

It should be pointed out that the basic research started a decade ago on SARS. The principles are not really new. They had a running start. Most people think it started from scratch two years ago...

 

[NationalTitles18]

COVID-19 surge worsening by the day in Georgia, filling hospitals with extremely sick patients

In Georgia hospitals, a significant number of young people without previous health problems are among those now filling COVID-19 wards.

www.ajc.com

When he got off the elevator last week and entered the unit, he says in the video, he was not prepared for what he saw.

“There were yellow gowns everywhere, and I saw a pastor who was entering a room. I knew what was happening at that moment,” Lopez said.
Rooms on the COVID-19 unit were full. But he said things were different this time, in comparison to the earliest days of the pandemic. A significant number of those hospitalized were young people without a history of health problems.

“What was more terrifying this time is that these people are drowning,” he said. “They’re drowning. And it is an awful thing to see.” The doctor described patients “starving for air..., saying over and over again,’ I can’t breathe, I can’t breathe, I can’t breathe.’”

The vast majority of COVID-19 patients hospitalized during this surge are unvaccinated. Doctors and hospital executives across Georgia strongly urged people to get the COVID-19 vaccine as the surge filled their hospitals.

snip


Steiner said he couldn’t comprehend why, after 18 months in a pandemic, so many continue to doubt the seriousness of COVID-19.

“If only the deniers and the doubters could spend a shift working alongside one of our ICU nurses or respiratory therapists. Maybe then, they would believe. You want to show your support for health care heroes and do something good for our community? Get a vaccine and put on a mask,” Steiner said.

_________________

Ever not been able to breathe?

I've seen that look of terror on someone's face and watched the life go out of their eyes. I remember one who turned out to be allergic to a medication they received. Couldn't talk in any case (stroke), so weren't able to tell us what was happening. I was several feet away on the other side of a curtain and heard noises. After the first few I came through to the other side and saw that look of terror (saucer eyes) combined with the stridor and immediately knew. Call the code, run to the med cart, grab racemic epi (got to get it before the airway completely closes off!), slap it into the nebulizer and plug the mask tubing into the O2 then watch as the heartrate slows...106...80...66...42...36...26...16...10...6...flatline - almost as quickly as you just read that. Begin CPR. Finally the code team makes it there and once we establish the airway all vitals return to normal within a minute and off to ICU they go. Add (name of medication) to the allergy list.

I have GERD and take medication. I must take it every day or... I have occasionally awoke in the middle of the night, that same stridor sound coming from me. Pop up in the bed in a panic - no time to wake up - adrenaline pumping - run to the sink for some water to wash away the acid. How much time has passed? Please don't let me pass out... I just need air! Finally, struggling, I am making noise again. This is good. The laryngospasm is letting up. Thank you sweet Jesus! Some more water. Panting. Heart still racing. I can't answer the wife just yet as she asks again if I'm OK. I know I'm OK now at least. I catch my breath and answer. I take a few puffs off the inhaler I keep bedside just in case. Two hours later my nerves have calmed enough to get another hour of sleep before the alarm goes off.

If you've never experienced an "I can't breathe!" moment, you don't want to. Please trust me on that.

 

[tattooguy21]

SCOTUS, for better or worse, has set the precedent.

The only case that they ruled on that I'm familiar with is that schools, states, and private business have the right to say if you want to be under their employee or attend (students) then x vaccine is required. That's a darn long shot from saying that the state of Kansas can say, "oh....you have an address here. Get vaccinated or else" aka mandatory vaccination for private citizens. Please send/ post a link if there is another ruling where they said the latter.

 

[tattooguy21]

It should be pointed out that the basic research started a decade ago on SARS. The principles are not really new. They had a running start. Most people think it started from scratch two years ago...

I did. Apparently DARPA was funding this research (mnra, what I was referring to) over a decade ago. And unless I missed it which is possible, this will be the first mnra vaccine to get FDA approval.