Politics: God, Guns, and Gullibility: The Dangers of White Christian Nationalism

Tidelines

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I agreed with you and that’s still not good enough. 😂

I don’t think you can honestly make the claims some are making. Remember you have to put yourself in their shoes and see how they are thinking and they aren’t taking a compete view of how God uses people Biblically. They are letting their own desires and personal emotions dictate how they view the situation.

when I say an “honest reading” I mean that words mean things and context matters. People trying to make Trump the “messiah” aren’t doing that. It’s a bad take.
Many of the founding fathers kept the Jewish Torah and the Islamic Quran and studied them well. Those books are of historical significance and influenced the founders.

I guess that means we will see them taught in Oklahoma schools as well.
Which founding father studied and kept the Quran?
 

NationalTitles18

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I agreed with you and that’s still not good enough. 😂

I don’t think you can honestly make the claims some are making. Remember you have to put yourself in their shoes and see how they are thinking and they aren’t taking a compete view of how God uses people Biblically. They are letting their own desires and personal emotions dictate how they view the situation.

when I say an “honest reading” I mean that words mean things and context matters. People trying to make Trump the “messiah” aren’t doing that. It’s a bad take.
That's what I thought.
 

Go Bama

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Not that I believe this, but the argument could be made that God saved Trump's life to keep the US from being in an even more volatile position.

Jim Harbaugh gave thanks to God because Michigan won the NT. I thought it was because Milroe didn't tuck the ball in the 4th quarter and they had a good enough team to close the deal.
 
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mdb-tpet

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Not that I believe this, but the argument could be made that God saved Trump's life to keep the US from being in an even more volatile position.

Jim Harbaugh gave thanks to God because Michigan won the NT. I thought it was because Milroe didn't tuck the ball in the 4th quarter and they had a good enough team to close the deal.
I've always been queasy about folks claiming God cares who wins a football game. Really? With all of the crap going on planet wide, God cares and actively has a hand in a football game outcome? On the other hand, maybe that's why so much is wrong with the planet...we keep pulling God into sporting events instead of fixing natural disasters.
 

Maudiemae

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I've always been queasy about folks claiming God cares who wins a football game. Really? With all of the crap going on planet wide, God cares and actively has a hand in a football game outcome? On the other hand, maybe that's why so much is wrong with the planet...we keep pulling God into sporting events instead of fixing natural disasters.
Back in the day, Tim Tebow did something amazing to save the game for his team. A gator fan friend of mine posted on FB, "What we just saw was not a football player. It was G-d helping his faithful servant...something, something, blah, blah, blah". I nearly puked reading it. I nearly exploded reading it, too. Just down the street or around the corner are children being abused in some horrifying manner, people dying and suffering from a terrible, excruciating disease. All over the world people are suffering agonies beyond imagination and it's always been this way. Oh, but G-d is all focused on football. That kind of thinking comes from a very limited mindset, if you ask me.
 

Huckleberry

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Texas’ Christian-influenced curriculum spurs worries about bullying, church-state separation
Some secular groups and members of other faiths say the curriculum could give schools too much control over how children are taught religion.

The proposed curriculum would prompt teachers to relay the story of The Good Samaritan — a parable about loving everyone, including your enemies — to kindergarteners as an example of what it means to follow the Golden Rule. The story comes from the Bible, the lesson explains, and “was told by a man named Jesus” as part of his Sermon on the Mount, which included the phrase, “Do unto others as you would have done unto you.” Many other religions have their own version of the Golden Rule, which the lesson plan acknowledges.

A first-grade lesson about the Liberty Bell would teach students a story in which “God told Moses about the laws he wanted his people to follow — laws that were designed to help ensure that the Hebrew people lived in peace in the freedom of their new land.”

There’s also a fifth-grade lesson on Leonardo da Vinci’s The Last Supper that challenges students to consider “how the disciples may have felt upon hearing Jesus telling them about his betrayal and death.”
 

mdb-tpet

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Texas’ Christian-influenced curriculum spurs worries about bullying, church-state separation
Some secular groups and members of other faiths say the curriculum could give schools too much control over how children are taught religion.

The proposed curriculum would prompt teachers to relay the story of The Good Samaritan — a parable about loving everyone, including your enemies — to kindergarteners as an example of what it means to follow the Golden Rule. The story comes from the Bible, the lesson explains, and “was told by a man named Jesus” as part of his Sermon on the Mount, which included the phrase, “Do unto others as you would have done unto you.” Many other religions have their own version of the Golden Rule, which the lesson plan acknowledges.

A first-grade lesson about the Liberty Bell would teach students a story in which “God told Moses about the laws he wanted his people to follow — laws that were designed to help ensure that the Hebrew people lived in peace in the freedom of their new land.”

There’s also a fifth-grade lesson on Leonardo da Vinci’s The Last Supper that challenges students to consider “how the disciples may have felt upon hearing Jesus telling them about his betrayal and death.”
I'd be more accepting of this if they taught from the earliest texts in Hebrew and Greek which don't have punctuation, spaces between most words, common spelling of words, or anything like a dictionary for definitions. Then the students could start to understand how little we actually know about the original text's meanings, how much of the texts have been mistranslated, how ambiguous the words and phrases can be, and how much has been changed to fit political narratives over the centuries. But they won't.

I'm on a tangent here, but one of my favorite sayings is in a thousand years, nobody will likely understand the difference between a booty call and a butt dial. Or how the lovely phrase, bless her heart, isn't a compliment in the South.
 

mdb-tpet

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92tide

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NationalTitles18

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jezebel is a racist trope about black (or in this case, totally not black, but..) women

The portrayal of black women as lascivious by nature is an enduring stereotype. The descriptive words associated with this stereotype are singular in their focus: seductive, alluring, worldly, beguiling, tempting, and lewd. Historically, white women, as a category, were portrayed as models of self-respect, self-control, and modesty - even sexual purity, but black women were often portrayed as innately promiscuous, even predatory. This depiction of black women is signified by the name Jezebel.1
 

CrimsonNagus

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Many of the founding fathers kept the Jewish Torah and the Islamic Quran and studied them well. Those books are of historical significance and influenced the founders.

I guess that means we will see them taught in Oklahoma schools as well.
The idea taught in Christian churches/schools today that this nation was founded as a Christian nation, or was basically a nation full of Christians, are just flat out not true.

The reality is far more complex. Are there many references to God in early American documents, of course, but that doesn't make them Christian as many religions and beliefs refer to a "god." Most leaders of the time were baptized Anglicans but, rarely attended services as they grew into adulthood. George Washington was the only founding father who regularly attended Sunday services but would sometimes leave before communion. Many intellectual men of the time did not believe in the miracle of the Holy Communion.

In fact, even though baptized as children, most intellectual men of the time held Diest views.

Thomas Jefferson was one of the more vocal Diest, who famously cut out all the parts of the Bible he didn't believe. Alexander Hamilton held Diest views as well until late into his life when he started to become more Anglican but, he never regularly attended services.

In fact, Hamilton was denied communion on his death bed by both an Episcopal Bishop and a Presbyterian priest because he did not attend church enough and was shot in a duel. The bishop relented and performed communion after thinking about it some and knowing how religious Hamilton's wife was.

Benjamin Franklin was so far theological left that he constantly argued against including religious tones in the Declaration of Independence. One of those instances was Jefferson originally wrote "We hold these truths to be sacred" and Franklin convinced him to change it to "We hold these truths to be self evident."

I just get tired of people acting like our modern version of Christianity is what these men believed back then because it was not. They were coming from a position that was scared of religious rule, it is one of the reasons they were breaking away from England. These men feared a government that would rule from a pulpit.

I have only read one of the founding father's biographies; Alexander Hamilton by Ron Chernow. It was amazing and very eye opening. It completely changed my perspective of our founding fathers and how our nation was created. They are not these mythical figures that many hold them up to be these days. They were normal people like us with all the same faults and warts. They had more in common with modern politicians then some will ever admit; the backstabbing, lying and using misinformation to hurt an opponent was common back then as well. They had many different opinions on government, God and religion; just like we do today.
 
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Huckleberry

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A short thread of Christian nationalists and fascists being very open about their agenda.

First up, Douglas Wilson: "In the republic I envision, Hindus would not be able to hold public office."

Joel Webbon explaining what "true revival" in America would look like: "It would look like millions of people being deported. It would look like mothers getting death row for murdering their children."

Ben Zeisloft: "Our role as Christians who are involved in the political process is not to compromise with them, but to make them do what we want."

White nationalist Vincent James: "The only way to start the return to moral order in the country is by force ... People have to start to realize that faith in God [and] Christian understanding of morality [has to be] the foundation. And this is not gonna be done by choice."
 

Tidelines

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The idea taught in Christian churches/schools today that this nation was founded as a Christian nation, or was basically a nation full of Christians, are just flat out not true.

The reality is far more complex. Are there many references to God in early American documents, of course, but that doesn't make them Christian as many religions and beliefs refer to a "god." Most leaders of the time were baptized Anglicans but, rarely attended services as they grew into adulthood. George Washington was the only founding father who regularly attended Sunday services but would sometimes leave before communion. Many intellectual men of the time did not believe in the miracle of the Holy Communion.

In fact, even though baptized as children, most intellectual men of the time held Diest views.

Thomas Jefferson was one of the more vocal Diest, who famously cut out all the parts of the Bible he didn't believe. Alexander Hamilton held Diest views as well until late into his life when he started to become more Anglican but, he never regularly attended services.

In fact, Hamilton was denied communion on his death bed by both an Episcopal Bishop and a Presbyterian priest because he did not attend church enough and was shot in a duel. The bishop relented and performed communion after thinking about it some and knowing how religious Hamilton's wife was.

Benjamin Franklin was so far theological left that he constantly argued against including religious tones in the Declaration of Independence. One of those instances was Jefferson originally wrote "We hold these views to be sacred" and Franklin convinced him to change it to "We hold these to be self evident."

I just get tired of people acting like our modern version of Christianity is what these men believed back then because it was not. The were coming from a position that was scared of religious rule, it is one of the reasons they were breaking away from England. These men feared a government that would rule from a pulpit.

I have only read one of the founding father's biographies; Alexander Hamilton by Ron Chernow. It was amazing and very eye opening. It completely changed my perspective of our founding fathers and how our nation was created. They are not these mythical figures that many hold them up to be these days. They were normal people like us with all the same faults and warts. They had more in common with modern politicians then some will ever admit; the backstabbing, lying and using misinformation to hurt an opponent was common back then as well. They had many different opinions on government, God and religion; just like we do today.
Who's to say Chernow got it right?
 

CrimsonNagus

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White nationalist Vincent James: "The only way to start the return to moral order in the country is by force ... People have to start to realize that faith in God [and] Christian understanding of morality [has to be] the foundation. And this is not gonna be done by choice."
Not by choice, so force? I forgot that is how Jesus taught it.

These MAGA morons do not even read the book they claim to up hold.
 

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