Politics: God, Guns, and Gullibility: The Dangers of White Christian Nationalism

[NationalTitles18]

When it relates to some things yes and some things no. They wouldn’t see prophecy the same in some instances, and would differ on n the afterlife, but otherwise they would be very close in how they handle the rest of the Old Testament.

I'll ask my Jewish and former atheist priest. He has said in the past that there are some fairly stark differences.

 

[AWRTR]

I'll ask my Jewish and former atheist priest. He has said in the past that there are some fairly stark differences.

In some areas there are. Christians don’t keep kosher laws but understand them and the reason and process. You will also see some differences depending on the sect within the Jewish faith. Some are more liberal some more conservative.

 

[NationalTitles18]

In some areas there are. Christians don’t keep kosher laws but understand them and the reason and process. You will also see some differences depending on the sect within the Jewish faith. Some are more liberal some more conservative.

You mean people even thousands of years ago didn't agree on what the books actually said?

Surprising.

Most Christians understand Jewish laws from their own point of view, some better/closer to how Jewish people see them and some not so much. Depends on how much effort they've put in to educate themselves.

 

[AWRTR]

You mean people even thousands of years ago didn't agree on what the books actually said?

Surprising.

Most Christians understand Jewish laws from their own point of view, some better/closer to how Jewish people see them and some not so much. Depends on how much effort they've put in to educate themselves.

The much more liberal modern sects take liberties with the text that aren’t intellectually honest. They just do whatever they want and try to figure out how to justify it. Free country do as you wish, but words have meanings. I find us having this same discussion over and over and it always seems to get nowhere.

 

[NationalTitles18]

The much more liberal modern sects take liberties with the text that aren’t intellectually honest. They just do whatever they want and try to figure out how to justify it. Free country do as you wish, but words have meanings. I find us having this same discussion over and over and it always seems to get nowhere.

It does.

We both agree that people make different interpretations.

And likely have done so for thousands of years.

There were different sects in Jesus' time.

But you always claim everyone but you is wrong and you somehow understand it better than anyone else in the history of the world.

I disagree.

And on it goes.

 

[jthomas666]

When it relates to some things yes and some things no. They wouldn’t see prophecy the same in some instances, and would differ on n the afterlife, but otherwise they would be very close in how they handle the rest of the Old Testament.

It's a function of the language. Hebrew has 75,000 - 85,000 words. English, by comparison, has ~170,000.

Hebrew speakers are accustomed to words having multiple meanings, even in everyday use. As a result, their scriptural interpretations tend to focus on possible meanings, while Christian interpretation, due to a more-specific lexicon as well as other reasons, looks to determine THE meaning.

 

[NationalTitles18]

It's a function of the language. Hebrew has 75,000 - 85,000 words. English, by comparison, has ~170,000.

Hebrew speakers are accustomed to words having multiple meanings, even in everyday use. As a result, their scriptural interpretations tend to focus on possible meanings, while Christian interpretation, due to a more-specific lexicon as well as other reasons, looks to determine THE meaning.

Don't forget: we are to take every word literally, but the universe and Earth were formed in a literal day even though a day didn't technically exist yet and "there is neither male nor female" yet nonbinary people are a problem and women can't be in any leadership role at all even though they were literally the first people instructed to carry the Gospel after the resurrection. And there can never be any ambiguity in modern interpretations even though the original language was at time ambiguous or may have conveyed a different meaning based on the language originally used. Oh, even though the reason for the destruction of Sodom is given clearly, it was really one thing not directly mentioned in the verse saying what her sin was.

But the above is just to show that a literal interpretation of every word is difficult to impossible and often runs counter to what some claim it means or contradicts some things that some believe.

 

[AWRTR]

It's a function of the language. Hebrew has 75,000 - 85,000 words. English, by comparison, has ~170,000.

Hebrew speakers are accustomed to words having multiple meanings, even in everyday use. As a result, their scriptural interpretations tend to focus on possible meanings, while Christian interpretation, due to a more-specific lexicon as well as other reasons, looks to determine THE meaning.

I agree. I studied Hebrew in college. I’m by no means fluent, but I’m functional and can translate if I have good resources to use.

 

[crimbru]

Go to YouTube and search Lincoln Project Piety and you will find part 1 which is a discussion with Jeff Sharlet who keeps his thumb on the pulse of the Christian Nationalism movement.

 

[NationalTitles18]

What?

Why the RNC Is Banning Tennis Balls but Not Guns After Trump Shooting

Make it make sense.

newrepublic.com

Thanks to Wisconsin state law, guns will be allowed in the outer perimeter of the Republican National Convention even after Saturday’s assassination attempt against Donald Trump.
People can open-carry guns and conceal-carry with a permit in a less strict perimeter surrounding a “hard” perimeter controlled by the Secret Service around the Fiserv Forum in Milwaukee as the RNC begins tonight. A Milwaukee city ordinance, however, bans tennis balls and paintball guns in the outer perimeter. Effectively, an AR-15 can be carried within walking distance of the RNC hall, but a paintball gun can’t, and it’s all thanks to Wisconsin’s open-carry laws.
“[It’s] utterly ridiculous,” Milwaukee City Alderman Robert Bauman told ABC News. “I mean, I could just picture this image of somebody coming up to the entry point with, you know, an AR-15 strapped over one shoulder, a long rifle over another, and two pistols in his belt, and the cops asking him, ‘You got any tennis balls?’”
Wisconsin’s laws also prevent local governments from passing gun laws stricter than what the state allows, preventing efforts to have guns added to the city’s ordinance. Wisconsin Governor Tony Evers, a Democrat, asked the Secret Service to extend a gun prohibition to the softer outer perimeter but was rebuffed, with the Secret Service stating that it was an issue of state law.

 

[NationalTitles18]

Mike Johnson Has Some Bonkers Praise for Trump After Shooting

The House speaker gushed about Donald Trump’s divine right to lead.

newrepublic.com

The Republican Party appears to have gone all in on Donald Trump’s messianic status in the wake of the assassination attempt, advancing a theory that the felonious, adulterous, insurrection-inciting, election-denying, convicted rapist was spared by God—even if that same God chose not to save a retired firefighter who died from the bullets shot at Trump.
By Monday, House Speaker Mike Johnson was already a full believer that the former president’s life was spared by an act of divine intervention. Pointing to a history of what he believed to be God-like acts that guided the historic leaders of this country, Johnson claimed that Trump had experienced his own God-given miracle.
“Not to over-spiritualize everything, as you and I are accused of, Ben—but this is a big thing,” Johnson told Ben Shapiro. “I think God’s gonna give our nation another chance, and I think President Trump is gonna be the leader that does that.”
Online, Johnson had gone even further, claiming Sunday on X (formerly Twitter) that “GOD protected President Trump.” But he wasn’t the only right-wing leader to make the overzealous claim. Evangelical minister Franklin Graham told Fox News that Trump was spared by “God’s hand of protection.” From inside prison, former Trump adviser Steve Bannon stated that Trump “wears the armor of God”; Texas Governor Greg Abbott added that Trump was “truly blessed.”

 

[AWRTR]

Mike Johnson Has Some Bonkers Praise for Trump After Shooting

The House speaker gushed about Donald Trump’s divine right to lead.

newrepublic.com

Much of your view point on this topic depends on what you believe about God or if you think there is a God. If you believe there is a God and He has a plan for the world them Trump still being here is no accident. Why He’s still here under that thought process is much more open for debate. If you dont believe in God then it’s all just blind chance and nothing really means anything.

 

[NationalTitles18]

Much of your view point on this topic depends on what you believe about God or if you think there is a God. If you believe there is a God and He has a plan for the world them Trump still being here is no accident. Why He’s still here under that thought process is much more open for debate. If you dont believe in God then it’s all just blind chance and nothing really means anything.

No, it's not just whether you believe in God or not.

The strong implication is that God orchestrated it for some reason and spared Trump to anoint him leader -that is what is being said.

You can believe in God and call that the hogwash it is.

 

[AWRTR]

No, it's not just whether you believe in God or not.

The strong implication is that God orchestrated it for some reason and spared Trump to anoint him leader -that is what is being said.

You can believe in God and call that the hogwash it is.

That’s exactly what I said. If you believe in an active God then trump is still here for a reason. What that reason is that’s what’s up for interpretation and anyone that says they know for sure at this point really doesn’t. I don’t think you read the last part of my post.

 

[NationalTitles18]

Much of your view point on this topic depends on what you believe about God or if you think there is a God. If you believe there is a God and He has a plan for the world them Trump still being here is no accident. Why He’s still here under that thought process is much more open for debate. If you dont believe in God then it’s all just blind chance and nothing really means anything.

That’s exactly what I said. If you believe in an active God then trump is still here for a reason. What that reason is that’s what’s up for interpretation and anyone that says they know for sure at this point really doesn’t. I don’t think you read the last part of my post.

But you did not start off saying "an active God".

In three of four sentences - two before and one after - the statement about the why being open for interpretation you at least imply that if you believe it did not happen for some reason (whatever the reason) then you don't believe in God.

I disagree.

You can believe in God and believe God had no part in it.

I know that is antithetical and antitheist in sentiment to some, but it's really not for many people. Not everyone believes God is involved in every detail of human existence, even though that is central to the faith of some.

 

[AWRTR]

But you did not start off saying "an active God".

In three of four sentences - two before and one after - the statement about the why being open for interpretation you at least imply that if you believe it did not happen for some reason (whatever the reason) then you don't believe in God.

I disagree.

You can believe in God and believe God had no part in it.

I know that is antithetical and antitheist in sentiment to some, but it's really not for many people. Not everyone believes God is involved in every detail of human existence, even though that is central to the faith of some.

Let’s be honest. You didn’t read the post well and responded to something I didn’t say and then tried to figure out how to make it fit. I said,
“If you believe there is a God and He has a plan for the world.” That is the definition of an active God. The watch maker theory of God is what you are speaking about. He put the universe together. He set it spinning and walked away. That is what you are referring to and an honest reading of the post shows clearly what I was referring to. Your effort at semantics to prove your point is woefully inadequate.

 

[NationalTitles18]

Let’s be honest. You didn’t read the post well and responded to something I didn’t say and then tried to figure out how to make it fit. I said,
“If you believe there is a God and He has a plan for the world.” That is the definition of an active God. The watch maker theory of God is what you are speaking about. He put the universe together. He set it spinning and walked away. That is what you are referring to and an honest reading of the post shows that. Your effort at semantics to prove your point is woefully inadequate.

OK. Maybe you could have made yourself more clear if that was truly your intent? Did that ever occur to you?

At any rate, your intent isn't as important as their intent, which was to say Trump is ordained by God.

Speaking of honesty, can you admit that?

 

[AWRTR]

OK. Maybe you could have made yourself more clear if that was truly your intent? Did that ever occur to you?

At any rate, your intent isn't as important as their intent, which was to say Trump is ordained by God.

Speaking of honesty, can you admit that?

Yes I would say you are correct. If trump wins an honest reading of Scripture would say he is “ordained” by God. Now the interesting thing is that’s not always positive. God often placed countries and leaders in positions in the Bible even when they weren’t followers of God. Sennacherib the Assyrian king, Nebuchadnezzar the Babylonian king, and Cyrus the great the Persian king are all examples of kings God said clearly He placed in their positions, but they weren’t followers of God and were used for a specific time. Nebuchadnezzar was a terrible person as was Sennacherib. Being put in a position by God doesn’t mean you have His favor like Scott and Johnson alluded to.

 

[NationalTitles18]

Yes I would say you are correct. If trump wins an honest reading of Scripture would say he is “ordained” by God. Now the interesting thing is that’s not always positive. God often placed countries and leaders in positions in the Bible even when they weren’t followers of God. Sennacherib the Assyrian king, Nebuchadnezzar the Babylonian king, and Cyrus the great the Persian king are all examples of kings God said clearly He placed in their positions, but they weren’t followers of God and were used for a specific time. Nebuchadnezzar was a terrible person as was Sennacherib. Being put in a position by God doesn’t mean you have His favor like Scott and Johnson alluded to.

This goes back to your interpretation of scripture being the only "honest" one. There's no point in further discussion on the matter if you can't acknowledge that other people disagree with that interpretation in good faith. But my bet in you can't do that.

 

[AWRTR]

This goes back to your interpretation of scripture being the only "honest" one. There's no point in further discussion on the matter if you can't acknowledge that other people disagree with that interpretation in good faith. But my bet in you can't do that.

I agreed with you and that’s still not good enough.

I don’t think you can honestly make the claims some are making. Remember you have to put yourself in their shoes and see how they are thinking and they aren’t taking a compete view of how God uses people Biblically. They are letting their own desires and personal emotions dictate how they view the situation.

when I say an “honest reading” I mean that words mean things and context matters. People trying to make Trump the “messiah” aren’t doing that. It’s a bad take.