Re: Penn State Officials Reportedly Planning Paterno's Exit
I would submit that there are some things worth losing your job over.
I would submit that there are some things worth losing your job over.
Link: Official PSU Scandal Thread
- Thread starter WMack4Bama
- Start date
Re: PSU Coach Joe Paterno fired!
On the NYT article I mentioned, I'm inclined to think the PA Gov (and former AG who was working on the case) leaked the report so the public could see what was behind the Paterno firing
On the NYT article I mentioned, I'm inclined to think the PA Gov (and former AG who was working on the case) leaked the report so the public could see what was behind the Paterno firing
Re: Former Penn St. DC Jerry Sandusky arrested for 40 counts of sexual assaults of mi
Just read on yahoo sports that Sandusky was seen shopping in Dick's Sporting Goods the middle part of this PAST week--I'm serious and no pun intended. Does this guy have no shame, and what the heck is this pedophile doing walking around scott-free?
Just read on yahoo sports that Sandusky was seen shopping in Dick's Sporting Goods the middle part of this PAST week--I'm serious and no pun intended. Does this guy have no shame, and what the heck is this pedophile doing walking around scott-free?
Re: Wonder what the final damages are going to be for Penn State? Jerry Sandusky was
I saw a reader's comment below a CBS story yesterday which made me think. The reader said this is not a "sex scandal" (I would consider Jerry Sandusky getting caught in the shower with his adult secretary a "sex scandal"). This was a child rape scandal and ought to be called as much. I do not normally support such appeals to emotionalism, but calling this a "sex scandal" vastly undervalues the seriousness of this matter.
If a tithe of this turns out to be true, PSU, and its employees are going to be paying for a long time.
Good point.
I saw a reader's comment below a CBS story yesterday which made me think. The reader said this is not a "sex scandal" (I would consider Jerry Sandusky getting caught in the shower with his adult secretary a "sex scandal"). This was a child rape scandal and ought to be called as much. I do not normally support such appeals to emotionalism, but calling this a "sex scandal" vastly undervalues the seriousness of this matter.
If a tithe of this turns out to be true, PSU, and its employees are going to be paying for a long time.
Re: Wonder what the final damages are going to be for Penn State? Jerry Sandusky was
What concerns me is the in addition to mcquery..is that a janitor saw a similar event a few years earlier. I haven't read the GJ report (can't bring my self to do so...) but reading some of the time line info, I gathered that the janitor advised his superior and his superior advised him who to make the report too...but the report was never made. That report doesn't get filed because the janitor was busy, because the janitor is a heartless SOB - that report doesn't get filed because, Sandusky's actions were known, accepted, and protected because it had gone on so long. I don't think it's a stretch to conclude that the janitor was told - you can do this, but you will get crushed.
What concerns me is the in addition to mcquery..is that a janitor saw a similar event a few years earlier. I haven't read the GJ report (can't bring my self to do so...) but reading some of the time line info, I gathered that the janitor advised his superior and his superior advised him who to make the report too...but the report was never made. That report doesn't get filed because the janitor was busy, because the janitor is a heartless SOB - that report doesn't get filed because, Sandusky's actions were known, accepted, and protected because it had gone on so long. I don't think it's a stretch to conclude that the janitor was told - you can do this, but you will get crushed.
Re: Wonder what the final damages are going to be for Penn State? Jerry Sandusky was
Re: Wonder what the final damages are going to be for Penn State? Jerry Sandusky was
I wonder how liable the university is for all of these crimes. The phrase "deep pockets" comes to mind, and this could drag out until the money's gone. Luckily for PSU, they're a state school.
I wonder how liable the university is for all of these crimes. The phrase "deep pockets" comes to mind, and this could drag out until the money's gone. Luckily for PSU, they're a state school.
Re: PSU Coach Joe Paterno fired!
Isn't that disgusting? Still, he has no shame. He is completely unrepentant.
True pedophiles don't see their actions as wrong. Savannah may be able to shed some light on this.
Re: Wonder what the final damages are going to be for Penn State? Jerry Sandusky was
I think what's been reported is just the tip of the iceberg. I have a feeling that, in the coming months, much more will come out once the investigation gets ratcheted up.
I think what's been reported is just the tip of the iceberg. I have a feeling that, in the coming months, much more will come out once the investigation gets ratcheted up.
Re: Wonder what the final damages are going to be for Penn State? Jerry Sandusky was
Last week I was disappointed after Alabama lost to LSU. But I can not imagine the disappointment suffered by the players,fans, students and alumni at Penn State University. They had nothing to do with what happened, yet they are all stained with this terrible crime. I think that was the motive behind the riots on campus. Not that they didn't care about the young children who were assaulted. Of course they cared, we all care about these children who were systematically used and abused by a man the children trusted. They are everyone's number one concern...but also the children, students, players, fans, and alumni were let down by their leaders of Penn State University. From the President, Administration, Coaches, campus police and District Attorney's, everyone they respected and trusted, who turned their back on these terrible crimes.
I heard a woman blame the game of football. Football is not the reason these children were abused. Football is a game and a way to teach children important things in life like teamwork, sportsmanship and a determination to do the you believe in. We have seen Priests abuse children should we blame religion? Teachers have abused children should we blame education? Of course not. Blame the guilty! They are responsible, blame Jerry Sandusky, he did it.
I will be pulling for Penn State today to win their football game and for Penn State University to clean their house and move forward with humility, compassion and honor.
Good Luck with both of those things.
Last week I was disappointed after Alabama lost to LSU. But I can not imagine the disappointment suffered by the players,fans, students and alumni at Penn State University. They had nothing to do with what happened, yet they are all stained with this terrible crime. I think that was the motive behind the riots on campus. Not that they didn't care about the young children who were assaulted. Of course they cared, we all care about these children who were systematically used and abused by a man the children trusted. They are everyone's number one concern...but also the children, students, players, fans, and alumni were let down by their leaders of Penn State University. From the President, Administration, Coaches, campus police and District Attorney's, everyone they respected and trusted, who turned their back on these terrible crimes.
I heard a woman blame the game of football. Football is not the reason these children were abused. Football is a game and a way to teach children important things in life like teamwork, sportsmanship and a determination to do the you believe in. We have seen Priests abuse children should we blame religion? Teachers have abused children should we blame education? Of course not. Blame the guilty! They are responsible, blame Jerry Sandusky, he did it.
I will be pulling for Penn State today to win their football game and for Penn State University to clean their house and move forward with humility, compassion and honor.
Good Luck with both of those things.
Re: Wonder what the final damages are going to be for Penn State? Jerry Sandusky was
All I can think about when I switch back to this game is the number of PSU coaches that helped facilitate the rape of children with their silence walking the sidelines right now.
All I can think about when I switch back to this game is the number of PSU coaches that helped facilitate the rape of children with their silence walking the sidelines right now.
Re: Wonder what the final damages are going to be for Penn State? Jerry Sandusky was
I have worked before in a culture that was militaristic/top down and you just kept your mouth shut. In cultures like this, it starts at the top with an ego and/or control freak. This kind of culture makes it highly conducive for events just like what transpired at PSU. It reminds me of the movie "Two Good Men". Very similar. It is hard for anyone to understand IF you have not worked in a similar culture. Understand I am making no excuses for anyone. It is senseless and an indictment on those involved and the culture. It is clear that JoePa ran the university and we have strong indicators of his arrogance including his dictating to the BOT as to his plans for his departure and telling them not to give his departure further thought. That is why a total clearing of anyone with ties to JoePa will take place. This culture must end.
I have worked before in a culture that was militaristic/top down and you just kept your mouth shut. In cultures like this, it starts at the top with an ego and/or control freak. This kind of culture makes it highly conducive for events just like what transpired at PSU. It reminds me of the movie "Two Good Men". Very similar. It is hard for anyone to understand IF you have not worked in a similar culture. Understand I am making no excuses for anyone. It is senseless and an indictment on those involved and the culture. It is clear that JoePa ran the university and we have strong indicators of his arrogance including his dictating to the BOT as to his plans for his departure and telling them not to give his departure further thought. That is why a total clearing of anyone with ties to JoePa will take place. This culture must end.
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Re: Wonder what the final damages are going to be for Penn State? Jerry Sandusky was
As I think about this more and more, I think that there's something that everyone should take away from this: temper your judgements and your ideas of what you would have done because anyone who thinks that they know what they would have done is fooling themselves. I chuckle to myself anytime I hear "well, if it had been me..." because I've seen the outcome of those situations and it usually doesn't correspond to the prior "wishcasting". The prospect of actual consequences usually introduces a lot more circumspection and even though it sometimes causes us to not do things that we should have done, it is a self-protection mechanism.
McQueary was a grad student that was looking forward to a career as a football coach. He was put in a terrible position and I don't think that anyone with sound judgement would immediately make a decision at that point as to what they would do. We all like to think that we would immediately rush to the rescue, but historical precedent shows that the vast majority of people, especially when the perpetrator is someone that may have some authority or social standing, don't immediately do anything. McQueary was likely disgusted by what he saw (judging from the words he used to describe the situation), but began weighing his options in a decision that might destroy everything that he had worked for and dreamed of. He probably did what most would have done. He went to someone else in the authority chain whom would be able to take the impetus from him as to what needed to be done. I think that he went to the correct person (Paterno), but that is the person that truly had the authority to do something and he is ultimately the one that failed. If there is a moral failing after that for which McQueary is culpable, it is that he didn't recognize the failure of his superiors in adequately addressing the issue. He could have then went over their heads to law enforcement, although it is likely that they would have balked at pushing the issue and he probably would have kissed any chances at a career in coaching goodbye.
I believe that rage and a lack of honest self-assessment leads to the vitriol and hate against McQueary that is being seen right now. When something like this happens, there's always such moral outrage and this sudden chaotic energy calling for someone to do something. In time, the outrage dies down and then the energy disappears before anyone can take a level-headed approach to direct it to really take actions that will prevent similar things in the future. I think that we're just a society that feeds on moral outrage, but we're bored by the hard work and active planning that it takes to truly fix the problem.
I don't trust rash moral judgement and chest-beating because in my experience, moral smugness and hypocrisy typically go hand-in-hand. For an example, the press has preached about "doing it the right way" holding up Tressel and Paterno as an example for years and we now see the reality behind the curtain. Also, all of Sandusky's crimes occurred under the auspices of an charity that he supposedly set up for "troubled kids". I wonder how many times he stood before crowds and delivered hypocritical harangues about protecting those children from predators when he himself was the predator.
As I think about this more and more, I think that there's something that everyone should take away from this: temper your judgements and your ideas of what you would have done because anyone who thinks that they know what they would have done is fooling themselves. I chuckle to myself anytime I hear "well, if it had been me..." because I've seen the outcome of those situations and it usually doesn't correspond to the prior "wishcasting". The prospect of actual consequences usually introduces a lot more circumspection and even though it sometimes causes us to not do things that we should have done, it is a self-protection mechanism.
McQueary was a grad student that was looking forward to a career as a football coach. He was put in a terrible position and I don't think that anyone with sound judgement would immediately make a decision at that point as to what they would do. We all like to think that we would immediately rush to the rescue, but historical precedent shows that the vast majority of people, especially when the perpetrator is someone that may have some authority or social standing, don't immediately do anything. McQueary was likely disgusted by what he saw (judging from the words he used to describe the situation), but began weighing his options in a decision that might destroy everything that he had worked for and dreamed of. He probably did what most would have done. He went to someone else in the authority chain whom would be able to take the impetus from him as to what needed to be done. I think that he went to the correct person (Paterno), but that is the person that truly had the authority to do something and he is ultimately the one that failed. If there is a moral failing after that for which McQueary is culpable, it is that he didn't recognize the failure of his superiors in adequately addressing the issue. He could have then went over their heads to law enforcement, although it is likely that they would have balked at pushing the issue and he probably would have kissed any chances at a career in coaching goodbye.
I believe that rage and a lack of honest self-assessment leads to the vitriol and hate against McQueary that is being seen right now. When something like this happens, there's always such moral outrage and this sudden chaotic energy calling for someone to do something. In time, the outrage dies down and then the energy disappears before anyone can take a level-headed approach to direct it to really take actions that will prevent similar things in the future. I think that we're just a society that feeds on moral outrage, but we're bored by the hard work and active planning that it takes to truly fix the problem.
I don't trust rash moral judgement and chest-beating because in my experience, moral smugness and hypocrisy typically go hand-in-hand. For an example, the press has preached about "doing it the right way" holding up Tressel and Paterno as an example for years and we now see the reality behind the curtain. Also, all of Sandusky's crimes occurred under the auspices of an charity that he supposedly set up for "troubled kids". I wonder how many times he stood before crowds and delivered hypocritical harangues about protecting those children from predators when he himself was the predator.
Re: Wonder what the final damages are going to be for Penn State? Jerry Sandusky was
I would say that some people do know, with complete certainty, what they would have done if they had witnessed what McQueary witnessed. Now, they might not be able to put their finger on how they would have done it, but more people than you might guess would not have stopped short of getting the police involved.
I would say that some people do know, with complete certainty, what they would have done if they had witnessed what McQueary witnessed. Now, they might not be able to put their finger on how they would have done it, but more people than you might guess would not have stopped short of getting the police involved.
Re: Wonder what the final damages are going to be for Penn State? Jerry Sandusky was
It wouldn't matter to me what is at stake or what I may lose in the process..If you see a child being molested in a shower..You get that child out of danger immediately..And by any means necessary..I wouldn't have left the shower without that child..I just can't fathom how or why McQueary could leave that child in the shower with Sandusky..Sickening..
Re: Wonder what the final damages are going to be for Penn State? Jerry Sandusky was
I agree and I believe I said something like this in a post previously. It is so easy to say what we would have done. First, a lot of people who witness something like this would be in shock. If you are in shock, you do some weird things. I remember being drug down Interstate 65 on the front of an 18 wheeler for 2.5 miles and I was in shock during the event. I did some weird things to get the attention of the driver but I was in shock. Couple that with the culture that evidently was in place and you have an admixture that makes it difficult to project what one would do. Perhaps the greater "sin" of JoePa is the culture that that he created and/or his view of the situation. There are some old timers who have a bizzare perception of sexual impropriety....like it is none of my business and I need to stay out of it. I have seen some "stay out of" wife abuse, child abuse, child molestation, etc. because it is perceived as none of their business. I am not sure if JoePa fits in that category but his characterization of what happened troubles me and makes me think he may well fit in that category. I am afraid that with this event we may learn more about Joe Paterno than we ever wanted to know and it may not be good. I believe it may forever taint his legacy.
I agree and I believe I said something like this in a post previously. It is so easy to say what we would have done. First, a lot of people who witness something like this would be in shock. If you are in shock, you do some weird things. I remember being drug down Interstate 65 on the front of an 18 wheeler for 2.5 miles and I was in shock during the event. I did some weird things to get the attention of the driver but I was in shock. Couple that with the culture that evidently was in place and you have an admixture that makes it difficult to project what one would do. Perhaps the greater "sin" of JoePa is the culture that that he created and/or his view of the situation. There are some old timers who have a bizzare perception of sexual impropriety....like it is none of my business and I need to stay out of it. I have seen some "stay out of" wife abuse, child abuse, child molestation, etc. because it is perceived as none of their business. I am not sure if JoePa fits in that category but his characterization of what happened troubles me and makes me think he may well fit in that category. I am afraid that with this event we may learn more about Joe Paterno than we ever wanted to know and it may not be good. I believe it may forever taint his legacy.
Re: Wonder what the final damages are going to be for Penn State? Jerry Sandusky was
There are a lot of evil things in the world that I can't fathom and they often occur over long periods of time with the knowledge of people that most of us would think would do something, but didn't. Most of them would probably have said, prior to the actual occurrence, that they would not allow such a thing to occur also. I'm not saying that you wouldn't do as you say, but there's a huge difference between our concept of what we would do in a given situation and what actually happens when that situation occurs. Hopefully none of us will ever have to face a similar situation and reconcile our expectations with our actions.
There are a lot of evil things in the world that I can't fathom and they often occur over long periods of time with the knowledge of people that most of us would think would do something, but didn't. Most of them would probably have said, prior to the actual occurrence, that they would not allow such a thing to occur also. I'm not saying that you wouldn't do as you say, but there's a huge difference between our concept of what we would do in a given situation and what actually happens when that situation occurs. Hopefully none of us will ever have to face a similar situation and reconcile our expectations with our actions.
Re: Wonder what the final damages are going to be for Penn State? Jerry Sandusky was
I certainly hope that is the case.
Discussion of what people would do in the context of a particular situation is called speculation until the situation occurs and then it becomes history. I've read a lot of history and history is usually more depressing than speculation.
I certainly hope that is the case.
Discussion of what people would do in the context of a particular situation is called speculation until the situation occurs and then it becomes history. I've read a lot of history and history is usually more depressing than speculation.
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