Russia Invades Ukraine IX

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Tidewater

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I’m wondering if the Russians are starting to rethink the effectiveness of their Battalion Tactical Group model
As with everything, it depends on what you mean by the term. Battalion Tactical Grouping just means a combined arms (tank, infantry, engineers, etc.) force of around 500-600. That is unexceptional. Combined arms is fairly settled doctrine.
If you mean the Russian technique of cannibalizing two battalions out of a regiment to form a battalion (because soldiers are missing, equipment is unserviceable), then yes, they should relook that.
 

TexasBama

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As with everything, it depends on what you mean by the term. Battalion Tactical Grouping just means a combined arms (tank, infantry, engineers, etc.) force of around 500-600. That is unexceptional. Combined arms is fairly settled doctrine.
If you mean the Russian technique of cannibalizing two battalions out of a regiment to form a battalion (because soldiers are missing, equipment is unserviceable), then yes, they should relook that.
 

TIDE-HSV

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No. The Russian never did outnumber the Ukrainians 3-1, which is why I said it would be suicidal to try.
I am just speaking in generalities. Traditionally, the attacker has to outnumber the defender 3-1 to be confident of victory.
The American way is to rely on “combat multipliers” (air power, IT, etc.) to make up the difference.
Heck, we attacked the Iraqis outnumbered 1-13 and beat them like a rented mule.
IIRC, you and I had differing opinions on whether or not Putin would attack, with my saying he would. Maybe I understood Putin a little better... :)
 

TIDE-HSV

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As with everything, it depends on what you mean by the term. Battalion Tactical Grouping just means a combined arms (tank, infantry, engineers, etc.) force of around 500-600. That is unexceptional. Combined arms is fairly settled doctrine.
If you mean the Russian technique of cannibalizing two battalions out of a regiment to form a battalion (because soldiers are missing, equipment is unserviceable), then yes, they should relook that.
I'm not convinced they ever rethink anything...
 

Tidewater

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Here is what happens. If you form a BTG out of a brigade, you cannibalize the other two battalions of that brigade (in the sense of moving all the kontrakniki to the BTG, and leave the other two manned by conscripts, moving all the modern kit to the BTG and move the "hangar queens," habitually unserviceable vehicles in the other two battalions o the brigade).
Then, when you deploy the entire brigade to combat (which the Russians had to do to get the numbers along the Ukrainian border up to 200,000 men by February) you get personnel and equipment turmoil right before you start a shooting war.
 
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Tidewater

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IIRC, you and I had differing opinions on whether or not Putin would attack, with my saying he would. Maybe I understood Putin a little better... :)
I just thought he was smarter than this. I really thought Gerasimov and Shoigu would talk him out of this.
I have no illusions about the level of Putin's malevolence, but until late February, I did not suspect his intellect.
 

TIDE-HSV

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Here is what happens. If you form a BTG out of a brigade, you cannibalize the other two battalions of that brigade (in the sense of moving all the kontrakniki to the BTG, and leave the other two manned by conscripts, moving all the modern kit to the BTG and move the "hangar queens," habitually unserviceable vehicles in the other two battalions o the brigade).
Then, when you deploy the entire brigade to combat (which the Russians had to do to get the numbers along the Ukrainian border up to 200,000 men by February) you get personnel and equipment turmoil right before you start a shooting war.
Personally, I think Putin was being regularly and habitually lied to about the state of readiness. I've seen estimates of up to 50% of the funding put into "modernization" of their armed forces being siphoned off into oligarch's pockets...
 

TIDE-HSV

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I just thought he was smarter than this. I really thought Gerasimov and Shoigu would talk him out of this.
I have no illusions about the level of Putin's malevolence, but until late February, I did not suspect his intellect.
In the beginning, I agreed that it was a typical Putin-styled and sized bluff. However, as he began to appear more and more ill and isolated, I began to think that we were looking at a bucket-list, legacy, end of life situation and his thinking was distorted. (And based on extremely faulty data.)
 
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4Q Basket Case

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That is really interesting. Sorry he ended with the potty mouth, but really interesting. I'd bet that was at the US Army War College in Carlisle, Penn., based on the flags.
Except for the fact that it prevented my posting the link on TF, I really didn't have a problem with the language.

Sometimes there is just no substitute for a well-place profanity, and I can't think of another word that adequately describes their situation.
 

TIDE-HSV

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Except for the fact that it prevented my posting the link on TF, I really didn't have a problem with the language.

Sometimes there is just no substitute for a well-place profanity, and I can't think of another word that adequately describes their situation.
Shelby, there appear to be two - one on 3/15 and one on 3/25. Which were you referring to?
 

TIDE-HSV

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Not a great deal more in the second video but still worth watching. I had the thought, after watching, that, as much as I poo-pooed Putin's rationale for the war, really was a defensive war, if one has a certain paranoid mindset. OTOH, as the speaker says, we speak from the standpoint of having two non-threatening neighbors...
 

TexasBama

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Personally, I think Putin was being regularly and habitually lied to about the state of readiness. I've seen estimates of up to 50% of the funding put into "modernization" of their armed forces being siphoned off into oligarch's pockets...
If you take 50% of the Russian military budget, now your talking the military budget of Italy.
 

TIDE-HSV

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Actually, he ascended in the 17th but reigned into the 18th. The last time Russia tried to take on Finland, it came out with a bloody nose. It's very close to a bloody nose in Ukraine, if we can arm Ukraine quickly enough. If I weren't convinced before that he's lost it, I'm sure now. That's definitely steroid-fueled grandiose thinking...
 
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