Russia Invades Ukraine IX

[crimsonaudio]

The day we start listening to France regarding fighting wars is the day we need to wave the white flag in general.




Which, as it turns out, is largely the same thing.

 

[TexasBama]

The day we start listening to France regarding fighting wars is the day we need to wave the white flag in general.




Which, as it turns out, is largely the same thing.

French Army command - Fix Baguettes!

 

[TexasBama]

Wooo, scary Pooty

Russia threatens to strike the West if Ukraine hits it with US rockets

President Joe Biden announced this week that his administration was sending long-range missiles to Ukraine.

metro.co.uk

 

[NationalTitles18]

Wooo, scary Pooty

Russia threatens to strike the West if Ukraine hits it with US rockets

President Joe Biden announced this week that his administration was sending long-range missiles to Ukraine.

metro.co.uk

He sounds more and more like a 3rd rate dictator projecting strength but in doing so revealing ever more his weakness. We've seen this story time and again.

 

[TexasBama]

He sounds more and more like a 3rd rate dictator projecting strength but in doing so revealing ever more his weakness. We've seen this story time and again.

I'm guessing this stuff is more for European countries than us.

 

[Tidewater]

Looks like Ukraine is in a race with time….Can they hold out long enough for Putin to be eliminated as an effective leader (death, overthrow, slow-walking orders, whatever) and/or the Russian Army to snap?

Also seems that the Russians aren’t making as many mistakes and blunders as early on, and I’m not sure what Ukraine’s staying power is.

I‘m a bit reminded of the Lord of the Rings books. Facing overwhelming numbers and a grim prognosis, sometimes something unexpected bails you out.

BTW – one historic weakness of the Russian Army is poor NCO and field officer leadership. Dating back at least to Stalin (maybe earlier, I don’t know), they’ve been bad to undermine these ranks by replacing competent experience with political loyalists who can’t come within light years of their predecessors’ effectiveness. Without reliable mid-level officers, the generals are having to take a more hands-on micro-managing approach. They’re spending more time closer to the fighting than is best, and as a result face greater chances of getting picked off.

I don't know. By 1945, I think the Red Army was quite effective tactically and had really good NCO and junior officer leadership. They sliced through the Japanese in August 1945 like a hot knife through butter.
The same Japanese had embarrassed the Soviets at Khalkin Gol in 1939.
By 1945, it was another story.

 

[Tidewater]

The day we start listening to France regarding fighting wars is the day we need to wave the white flag in general.

Which, as it turns out, is largely the same thing.

I think Macron is worried about Marine Le Pen on his Russian flank (I say "Russian" flank," because I don't think this fits neatly into a left-right political spectrum dichotomy.

Like "Chicken George" Wallace refusing to get outflanked on the [African-American] question, Macron is worried about Marine outflanking him on the Russia question.

And gasoline is selling for $9.88/gallon in Europe these days.

 

[TexasBama]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533083124103802882

 

[TIDE-HSV]

I don't know. By 1945, I think the Red Army was quite effective tactically and had really good NCO and junior officer leadership. They sliced through the Japanese in August 1945 like a hot knife through butter.
The same Japanese had embarrassed the Soviets at Khalkin Gol in 1939.
By 1945, it was another story.

When and why do you think their noncom corps disappeared?

 

[4Q Basket Case]

I don't know. By 1945, I think the Red Army was quite effective tactically and had really good NCO and junior officer leadership. They sliced through the Japanese in August 1945 like a hot knife through butter.
The same Japanese had embarrassed the Soviets at Khalkin Gol in 1939.
By 1945, it was another story.

We’ll, I know Stalin purged the army in the 1930s, and it dang near took them down early in WW2. By 1945, they could well have recovered, if nothing else by survival alone.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Here is a long, long answer. You can just skip down to the conclusion near the end...

Army UPress

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Here's a shorter treatise. It seems they think we're doing it all wrong...

Russian AWOL NCOs

 

[TexasBama]

While Putin destroys Ukrainian grain supplies, he games African countries.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533382115336790016

Senegalese president buys into Putin’s promise to free Ukraine’s grain

Macky Sall calls on countries to lift sanctions on Russian wheat and fertilizers — even though there aren’t any.

www.politico.eu

 

[Tidewater]

When and why do you think their noncom corps disappeared?

My guess would be shortly after 1 Sep 1945.
1941-1943, the Soviet Union was fighting for it's life. This caused the Bolsheviks to relax some of their more obnoxious and stupid practices and tolerate to anyone who would fight. Remember that Stalin officially tolerated the Russian Orthodox Church in 1943.
Once the Nazi menace was defeated, they thanked the competent NCOs and junior officers, sent them home, and the obnoxious and stupid reasserted itself, brutally and savagely crushing anyone whose head rose above the parapet. By the late Brezhnev Era (1970s), the transformation was complete.

 

[Tidewater]

Here is a long, long answer. You can just skip down to the conclusion near the end...

Army UPress

Bartles is well respected.
Here's the deal, though. Russia wants to have a professional army. They simply cannot get enough volunteers to fill the ranks, so they have to conscript hundreds of thousands a year.
A few years back, two SpetsNaz troops were captured by the Ukrainians: a Captain and a conscript. In other words, they are even using conscripts in SpetsNaz, which tells you a lot about the training level SpetsNaz can achieve, since conscripts only stay around for months. (In other words, not very high).

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Bartles is well respected.
Here's the deal, though. Russia wants to have a professional army. They simply cannot get enough volunteers to fill the ranks, so they have to conscript hundreds of thousands a year.
A few years back, two SpetsNaz troops were captured by the Ukrainians: a Captain and a conscript. In other words, they are even using conscripts in SpetsNaz, which tells you a lot about the training level SpetsNaz can achieve, since conscripts only stay around for months. (In other words, not very high).

In the end, the officer corps has no respect for the ranks at all. I started to say "fear," but that may be too strong...

 

[TexasBama]

I think these came from Norway

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533168491305615362

 

[Tidewater]

In the end, the officer corps has no respect for the ranks at all. I started to say "fear," but that may be too strong...

Yes, that is obvious.
When the Wehrmacht attacked the Belgian Fort Eben Emael in 1940, they landed gliders inside the fort. None of the officer made it to the landing zone. The senior sergeant hit the ground, assessed the situation, realized there were no officers, and everyone went about doing the job they had been told to do. No problem.
Lt Witzig (the commanding officer) arrived four hours later.
This is what is possible when officers respect and trust their NCOs.

 

[4Q Basket Case]

In the end, the officer corps has no respect for the ranks at all. I started to say "fear," but that may be too strong...

Yes, that is obvious.
When the Wehrmacht attacked the Belgian Fort Eben Emael in 1940, they landed gliders inside the fort. None of the officer made it to the landing zone. The senior sergeant hit the ground, assessed the situation, realized there were no officers, and everyone went about doing the job they had been told to do. No problem.
Lt Witzig (the commanding officer) arrived four hours later.
This is what is possible when officers respect and trust their NCOs.

Off topic regarding Ukraine, but absolutely on topic regarding respect for people occupying boxes on the org chart below your own.

I worked golf course maintenance during the summer between my freshman and sophomore years of college. Without doubt the hardest work, day in and day out, that I've ever done.

I was the college kid working with several lifers. It didn't take long to figure out that they might not be able to go through IS / LM curves or quote a single line of Shakespeare, but they had forgotten more about what we were doing than I'd ever know. I grew to respect their subject matter expertise (though not one of them could phrase their skills as that) immensely, made sure I asked my questions in a sincere way, and listened closely to the answers.

Yeah, they punked me a couple of times early on. But when they recognized that, even though we had different futures, they had my professional respect, we got along great. A couple of them even went out of their way to bail me out of a rookie mistake born of ignorance -- I had no way of knowing that my workaround for a broken sprinkler head could ruin the 9th green (over $10K in 1978 dollars). I gave them each a cold six-pack when we clocked out the next day, and they took me under their wing for the rest of the summer.

That whole concept was a huge lesson I carried with me throughout my working career: Respect and genuinely value the support staff -- secretaries, admin assistants, permanent analysts, etc.

Those people can put your work at the top of their pile, give you a heads up about which bigwig likes things done which way, and tell you why an idea that sounded great in the classroom won't necessarily work in the real world. And they can keep you from driving over a landmine you don't even know exists.

Or they can put your stuff at the bottom of the pile, let you irritate the bigwig, and keep quiet as you're headed for that landmine. Then, when you're standing there looking like Wile E. Coyote after the Roadrunner punks him, give a small smirk and say, "What a shame," under their breath.

If you don't show genuine respect for the support staff (or worse, you alienate them), you've put yourself at great risk, and you may never know why you got dope-slapped or worse. Applies in any organization -- military, business, charitable, whatever.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Yes, that is obvious.
When the Wehrmacht attacked the Belgian Fort Eben Emael in 1940, they landed gliders inside the fort. None of the officer made it to the landing zone. The senior sergeant hit the ground, assessed the situation, realized there were no officers, and everyone went about doing the job they had been told to do. No problem.
Lt Witzig (the commanding officer) arrived four hours later.
This is what is possible when officers respect and trust their NCOs.

From what we've seen so far, the Russians would simply wait until their officer arrived. BTW, I love that name "Witzig"...