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Russia invades Ukraine - VI

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Chukker Veteran

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I worry if Putin uses a WMD the domestic politics here will ramp up to an even uglier level. The pressure to do something draconian would be intense. The criticism of whatever Biden does, given the coming elections, will be nonstop.

Winning a Presidential election can sometimes seem more like a punishment rather than something someone would want. I’ve been well pleased with how Biden has been dealing with this and I am more able to have faith in the decision makers he has on board than I would have been had Trump won the last election.
 
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Jon

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Tidewater said:
It is cute you make that exception.
The Bolsheviks told the Russian army "get out of the trenches and fraternize with the enemy." The idea was that this would be the best way to spread the revolution.
The Bolsheviks, however, issued this order, not because they wanted to save the lives of Russian soldiers, but to advance the dialectic. The individuals meant less than nothing to them. Their value lay in how they advanced the dialectic. If advancing the dialectic meant you had to stop a war, so be it. If it meant you had to murder a few million individuals, that is good as well.

To your larger point, for as long as there has been a Russia, Russia has always been lavish in the blood of its soldiers.
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I've always worked on the assumption that there were Bolsheviks among the red army and that the Bolsheviks at least cared about their own during the revolution. Until Stalin and then it went back to what it always was. Interesting that even this was wrong
 
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crimsonaudio

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BearFoot

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CrimsonNagus

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Question, is all this really worth dragging the entire planet into a nuclear war? The planet is already struggling because of the pandemic. Lower and middle classes every where are struggling with higher cost for basic goods. A world nuclear war will just devastate everyone but the elite 1% (because they always seem to come out on top).

I honestly think all this support for Ukraine is just a front. I think most countries would let Russia have the country if it means avoiding a nuclear war. Maybe, ultimately, it is inevitable but, I will not sit here and cheer any US leader on for getting us involved in WWIII.
 
Its On A Slab

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CrimsonNagus said:
Question, is all this really worth dragging the entire planet into a nuclear war? The planet is already struggling because of the pandemic. Lower and middle classes every where are struggling with higher cost for basic goods. A world nuclear war will just devastate everyone but the elite 1% (because they always seem to come out on top).

I honestly think all this support for Ukraine is just a front. I think most countries would let Russia have the country if it means avoiding a nuclear war. Maybe, ultimately, it is inevitable but, I will not sit here and cheer any US leader on for getting us involved in WWIII.
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At some point, a line needs to be drawn. And I think it is wise to do it now.

Putin has acted with impunity up to now, and he has been very clear as to what his goals are for Russia's future: the return of the Soviet republics to Russia's domination.

There are currently 200K Russian troops in Kalininigrad, a Russian oblast that should never have existed after WW2(it's between Poland and Lithuania). Which would be a springboard for a Russian advance into the Baltics.

I have no doubt that the previous administration would have green-lighted the Ukraine invasion. For Trump was an unabashed Russian asset. And he had willing useful idiots in the Republican Party who would have had his back.
 
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MobtownK

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CrimsonNagus said:
Question, is all this really worth dragging the entire planet into a nuclear war? The planet is already struggling because of the pandemic. Lower and middle classes every where are struggling with higher cost for basic goods. A world nuclear war will just devastate everyone but the elite 1% (because they always seem to come out on top).

I honestly think all this support for Ukraine is just a front. I think most countries would let Russia have the country if it means avoiding a nuclear war. Maybe, ultimately, it is inevitable but, I will not sit here and cheer any US leader on for getting us involved in WWIII.
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I understand your point & the Mama in me is terrified. At the same time, I think we should have gone into WWII far sooner. Nazi Germany & what was done to the Jewish people & others should never happen again. And if we sit on our hands while Russia rapes and pillages Ukraine, it will. They are already taking Ukrainians to camps in Siberia.

I am a bit more hawkish than many on the board though. Afghanistan, Iraq. I would have wanted more involvement in Syria, and wanted to go to Darfur.
 
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TexasBama

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Its On A Slab said:
At some point, a line needs to be drawn. And I think it is wise to do it now.

Putin has acted with impunity up to now, and he has been very clear as to what his goals are for Russia's future: the return of the Soviet republics to Russia's domination.

There are currently 200K Russian troops in Kalininigrad, a Russian oblast that should never have existed after WW2(it's between Poland and Lithuania). Which would be a springboard for a Russian advance into the Baltics.

I have no doubt that the previous administration would have green-lighted the Ukraine invasion. For Trump was an unabashed Russian asset. And he had willing useful idiots in the Republican Party who would have had his back.
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Unless the Russians took the Baltics, those troops in Kalingrad can’t be supplied to wage war. Right now it’s only by sea. Even if they took the Baltics, I don’t know how well they could be supplied, given the Russian logistics performance in Ukraine

eta. A big percentage of the military there is navy.
 
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CrimsonNagus

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I'm not sure that line is worth drawing if it plunges us into a nuclear holocaust. We are not talking about 1 or 2 bombs being dropped, but hundreds, all over the planet. The beginning of all those post apocalyptic movies. I don't say that to be funny, I say it out of fear. Climate change will not matter anymore because the planet will be destroyed. I'm just not sure protecting Ukraine is worth ending life as we know it on this planet. As Spock would say, "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." The world doesn't need a nuclear war.

"In my humble opinion, in the nuclear world, the true enemy is war itself." -from the movie Crimson Tide
 
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