Toggle sidebar

Russia Invades Ukraine XIX

  • HELLO AGAIN, Guest! We are back, live! We're still doing some troubleshooting and maintenance to fix a few remaining issues but everything looks stable now (except front page which we're working on over next day or two)

    Thanks for your patience and support! MUCH appreciated! --Brett (BamaNation)

    if you see any problems - please post them in the Troubleshooting board!

crimsonaudio said:
India starts buying oil from Exxon — replacing Russia Indian refineries have purchased 4 million barrels of oil from Guyana through U.S. company ExxonMobil, with deliveries set to begin in early 2026, Reuters reports. The move deals a blow to Moscow’s position, as India is one of Russia’s largest oil buyers. New Delhi appears to be diversifying its imports amid pressure from the U.S. to stop “funding the war.” Russia has not commented yet — but the message has been heard loud and clear.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1979095786940969047
Click to expand...
Russia's shadow fleet consists of hundreds of oil tankers used to evade international sanctions, allowing the country to continue exporting oil despite restrictions imposed due to its invasion of Ukraine.
Overview of the Shadow Fleet
Click to expand...
 
Putin doesn’t want peace. He knows that any compromise whatsoever will result in his downfall / death by defenestration.

He’s trying to put a tissue-thin veil on his real strategy of a war by attrition….in which the Ukrainians are inconveniently declining to participate.
 
  • Like
Reactions: crimsonaudio, Huckleberry and some_al_fan
Huckleberry said:
Washington Post gift link

Putin demanded Ukraine surrender key territory in call with Trump


The demand from Putin would significantly disadvantage Ukraine and could be an obstacle to peace, officials said.
Click to expand...
The link would not open for me.
The link What "key territory" was Putin demanding?
I would imagine all of Kherson, Zaporizhzhya. Or was he "demanding" all of Mykolayav and Odesa to boot?
 
WHat I make of that article is that Putin is still wanting the Ukrainians to hand over portions of Donetsk Oblast that are not Russian-occupied to the Russians. I think that is what the article says, but I'm not sure. It was written ambiguously. "Full control of Donetsk" is not a phraseology that has a generally-accepted meaning in international affairs. It could mean: "Putin wants Ukraine to handover the unconquered portions of the Donetsk Oblast." It could mean "he wants to exercise sovereignty inside Russian already-occupied territory." It could mean "he was control of the entire Don region regardless of oblast boundaries."
The second of those three is most likely going to happen. If he means the first or third, then that's gonna be a problem. Once again, it means we have not convinced Putin that the costs of continuing exceed any potential gains from continuing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Huckleberry
Tidewater said:
WHat I make of that article is that Putin is still wanting the Ukrainians to hand over portions of Donetsk Oblast that are not Russian-occupied to the Russians. I think that is what the article says, but I'm not sure. It was written ambiguously. "Full control of Donetsk" is not a phraseology that has a generally-accepted meaning in international affairs. It could mean: "Putin wants Ukraine to handover the unconquered portions of the Donetsk Oblast." It could mean "he wants to exercise sovereignty inside Russian already-occupied territory." It could mean "he was control of the entire Don region regardless of oblast boundaries."
The second of those three is most likely going to happen. If he means the first or third, then that's gonna be a problem. Once again, it means we have not convinced Putin that the costs of continuing exceed any potential gains from continuing.
Click to expand...

I have read in other sources that Putin requests the same thing as back in Alaska, i.e. entire Donbass region (under Russian control)
It would be a suicide for Ukraine to give it away without a fight
 
some_al_fan said:
I have read in other sources that Putin requests the same thing as back in Alaska, i.e. entire Donbass region (under Russian control)
It would be a suicide for Ukraine to give it away without a fight
Click to expand...
First off, what are the boundaries of "the Donbas region," the entirety of Donetsk and Lugansk Oblasts? Some other boundary line? In other words, he expects Ukraine to hand over land he has not even conquered?
Next, the idea that "Donetsk has a majority Russian-speaking population," is true, or was in 2013, but Russian-speaking does not necessarily mean pro-Kremlin. It does in some cases, but not every one. Nest, since 2013, there has been a great sorting. Pro-Kyiv people, (whatever their ethnicity of spoken language have largely left the now Russian-occupied portion, but at the same time, pro-Kremlin Russians in areas still controlled by Kyiv have probably move east. Thus the people in Ukrainian controlled Donetsk and Lugansk probably do not want to live under Kremlin control.
I agree with you that handing over territory Kyiv currently controls would not be a good idea.

I wish our journalists were more discerning or would ask some specific dadgum questions. I just think most are too lazy or stupid to do that though,
 
Tidewater said:
First off, what are the boundaries of "the Donbas region," the entirety of Donetsk and Lugansk Oblasts? Some other boundary line? In other words, he expects Ukraine to hand over land he has not even conquered?
Click to expand...

Correct. The entirety of Donetsk and Lugansk Oblasts. And yes, he expects Ukraine to hand over land he has not even conquered.


Tidewater said:
Next, the idea that "Donetsk has a majority Russian-speaking population," is true, or was in 2013, but Russian-speaking does not necessarily mean pro-Kremlin. It does in some cases, but not every one. Nest, since 2013, there has been a great sorting. Pro-Kyiv people, (whatever their ethnicity of spoken language have largely left the now Russian-occupied portion, but at the same time, pro-Kremlin Russians in areas still controlled by Kyiv have probably move east. Thus the people in Ukrainian controlled Donetsk and Lugansk probably do not want to live under Kremlin control.
I agree with you that handing over territory Kyiv currently controls would not be a good idea.

I wish our journalists were more discerning or would ask some specific dadgum questions. I just think most are too lazy or stupid to do that though,
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, it is not just journalists, but the Trump Administration.

Friday’s quote:
-----
“Trump envoy Steve Witkoff pressed the Ukrainian delegation about handing over Donetsk during the meeting Friday, noting that the region is mostly Russian-speaking, a frequent Kremlin talking point that Ukrainian and European officials view as sympathetic to Russia’s demands,”
——

It is an absolutely ridiculous statement by the official representative of the Trump administration. I am not sure whether Witkoff is an uninformed individual or a Russian tool. Not sure that the difference matters either.
As you pointed out, yes, it is a Russian-speaking region. Kyiv is a Russian-speaking city as well. And the US is an English-speaking country. Does the US need to be under Britain’s control because it is an English-speaking country? :)

The entire USSR used to be a Russian speaking country. Thus, every person who grew up before 1991 is a Russian speaker. Thus, any argument about the “Russian-speaking” area is really Kremlin propaganda.
 
I'm not an expert in this area but why does Putin want it so bad? I am assuming that the land itself is very valuable for agriculture (I have heard Ukraine called the "bread basket" of the old Soviet Union) so it must be really attractive in that regard. I can't imagine what else it could be.
 
75thru79 said:
I'm not an expert in this area but why does Putin want it so bad? I am assuming that the land itself is very valuable for agriculture (I have heard Ukraine called the "bread basket" of the old Soviet Union) so it must be really attractive in that regard. I can't imagine what else it could be.
Click to expand...

The land itself (Donbass region) is not going to be that valuable. It is Ok for the agriculture. It has large coal deposits. It used to be the industrial heart of the USSR, since it had coal, metallurgical, chemical, etc. plants.
However, all of that was destroyed by the war. The land is covered with unexploded ordnance. Housing has been destroyed by bombs and fighting.

Why does Putin care?
Going to answer with a recent quote that I agree with:

———
"One European official told the FT that Putin is not interested in money, as the war in Ukraine has an ideological meaning for him.
This is his legacy, a senior European official said, he wants to go down in history as the greatest Russian ruler since Peter the Great."
-------
 
some_al_fan said:
Correct. The entirety of Donetsk and Lugansk Oblasts. And yes, he expects Ukraine to hand over land he has not even conquered.




Unfortunately, it is not just journalists, but the Trump Administration.

Friday’s quote:
-----
“Trump envoy Steve Witkoff pressed the Ukrainian delegation about handing over Donetsk during the meeting Friday, noting that the region is mostly Russian-speaking, a frequent Kremlin talking point that Ukrainian and European officials view as sympathetic to Russia’s demands,”
——

It is an absolutely ridiculous statement by the official representative of the Trump administration. I am not sure whether Witkoff is an uninformed individual or a Russian tool. Not sure that the difference matters either.
As you pointed out, yes, it is a Russian-speaking region. Kyiv is a Russian-speaking city as well. And the US is an English-speaking country. Does the US need to be under Britain’s control because it is an English-speaking country? :)

The entire USSR used to be a Russian speaking country. Thus, every person who grew up before 1991 is a Russian speaker. Thus, any argument about the “Russian-speaking” area is really Kremlin propaganda.
Click to expand...
I am unimpressed with Witkoff as a negotiator.
For the reasons I wrote above. the negotiation requires a more in-depth lknowledge of the situation. I suspect the Ukrianians explained exactly what I said above to Witkoff.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Huckleberry and some_al_fan
Tidewater said:
I am unimpressed with Witkoff as a negotiator.
For the reasons I wrote above. the negotiation requires a more in-depth lknowledge of the situation. I suspect the Ukrianians explained exactly what I said above to Witkoff.
Click to expand...

There are rumors that Trump is pushing Ukraine to surrender. There are also rumors that we’ve paused (not stopped, but paused & delayed till the next year) sending weapons to Ukraine that were already paid for by Europeans.
 
some_al_fan said:
There are rumors that Trump is pushing Ukraine to surrender. There are also rumors that we’ve paused (not stopped, but paused & delayed till the next year) sending weapons to Ukraine that were already paid for by Europeans.
Click to expand...
I'd have to see a legitimate source for that. I take everything I hear from and about that guy with a huge block of salt.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

New Posts

Advertisement

Trending content

Advertisement

Latest threads

Top Bottom
Back