Sadly we were outcoached again...

[Squirrely]

It easy to question decisions afterwards. Sometimes it's embarrassing to see fans throwing people under the bus after tough loss. We play a great team, and Bama couldn’t afford a bunch of mistakes. We made them, and sometimes you lose a game you should’ve won. It happens........

Seems Bama gets away from what gets us to that point in these huge games. It worked in the 2009 Florida SEC Championship game, but sometimes you can outthink yourself. That fake punt early in the Texas game is a great example of Saban & Staff doing too much. That move had me scratching my head back then, but after finding out about McElroy's injury. It made that move somewhat reasonable. Still, it’s just an example of our Coaches going away from what got us there. Not punting LSU deep after the first FG miss was wrong, but maybe Saban/Staff feel they need to gernate something to win these big games. If that was Kentucky or Ole Miss, we’re probably punting the ball there. In these big games Bama needs to stay with who they are instead of trying to be something their not. Miles pretty much just got out of the way the other night while our coaching staff & players made many unforced errors.

Anyone who is questioning Saban needs to remember how lost Bama was before he arrived............:cool2:



:BigA: ROLL TIDE :BigA:

 

[CapstoneTider]

I guess I could jump aboard any of the decisions that loomed big in the end. My biggest (well, now that I think about it there were several biggest) was not appearing to know what we were doing in OT. Do we not practice OT? Oh, I know we do. We just went out there with what appeared to be no plan. I know if only Trent could have caught the ball, yadda yadda. But a substitution penalty at that moment??? Seriously!

This is one instance where I would have gone back to the rules of when I was a boy and taken the tie, and that is what this game did and would of ended up in regulation, and a reason why I believe we only dropped one place in the BCS for now.

In the days of old, LSU and BAMA would still be 1 and 2 with many believing Bama came out of the game looking slightly stronger. But this is not those times unfortunately for now.

 

[CapstoneTider]

The coaches can't be relaxed when their players aren't excuting and making killer penalties. They tried their "bread and butter" and we blew it. They tried to get "cute" and we blew that as well. We were our own worst enemy.

Didn't say how the coaches got unhinged. It was all part of a bad process unfortunately.

 

[TIDEnGA]

Didn't say how the coaches got unhinged. It was all part of a bad process unfortunately.

I know, and it makes me wonder how Saban will look at this from his role. I know he is a great coach and has a healthy ego. I also have to hope that he's willing to learn from his mistakes as well. It seems the past three losses (LSU and AU 2010 and Sat. night) his process didn't work. It either didn't prepare the players or didn't allow the staff and players to adapt in game. Then again, the other night (as with AU 2010) some funky things happened that if only the ball bounced a different way or the pass had one more foot on it we wouldn't even be here.

So, I struggle with certain things Saban did but if executed properly he and the staff would be talked about as brilliant. So, go figure. Saban seemed very calm after the game. While disappointed he was very proud of our players. I just hope everyone can learn from this. We were told "never again" by the players yet here we are. It's frustrating on so many different levels.

 

[Dallas4Bama]

That is my only point - I don't care for the "scapegoating" tone posted by some (not all). There are enough questions to go around for everybody and like you, I suspect every player and coach on that team has been asking them of themselves since the clock hit zero.

One point - If Cade had hit one of those first two kicks ...

Hey, I agree. I doubt CNS has slept a wink since the clock hit 0 and I doubt any of the players haven't gone over every snap in their head repeatedly. I just questioned some of the calls and I believe for very valid reasons. Now I in no way think Miles is a better coach, I in no way think our staff didn't give it their all in preparation as well as in the game. I believe the staff put the team in position to win multiple times. At those moments various different people didn't execute. I just also happen to believe that CNS made some decisions I disliked and questioned. No, I'm no professional coach, but if that is the bar for who can discuss the game our forum is going to shrink pretty quickly. So no, I don't think it was just bad coaching, but i think a few different decisions might have changed things.

Also, right or wrong I tend question the high paid coaches instead of the tuition pay scale players. The coaches can't run the plays for them, but they still kind of get the responsibility at this stage in their careers.

 

[BleedCrimson7]

I've always said, dating back to his days at LSU, that Saban is not a great gameday coach. He just isn't and never has been. I think back to the NC game with Texas and the decision early in the 1st quarter to try a long pass fake punt form deep in our territory, just weird stuff that is quite frankly, stupid. Sort of like letting the clock run when we have 1:30 left and two time outs and we should have gotten the ball around midfield had Maze fielded the punt. Just head scratching stuff. Or the inability to adjust in the Iron Bowl after halftime to their adjustments.

Saban's genius has always been in his recruiting, player development, and preparation leading up to the game. If he doesn't have you beat by then, then he's in trouble because he just isn't a good game-day coach. Sad but true. That said, I'm glad we have the man, he's one of the elite coaches in the nation, but when he faces teams that are just as talented and physically fit as his team he struggles to win against coaches who are better game-day coaches. Hopefully he will continue to learn and evolve as a coach and get better there because LSU and Les Miles aren't going anywhere and until Saban can turn that ship around we won't be winning anything important for a long time. It's also crucial that he set the tone Nov. 26th with a win and prove he's better than the Chizik/Gus combo, because they almost beat us is 2009 with a vastly inferior team, and did beat us last year after we blew a 24-0 lead. A win for Auburn this year, and Saban will have fallen behind two coaching staffs in the SEC West and he cannot afford for that to happen.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

This loss hurt more than just on the record books and on the field. It seems that Miles is a better coach and developer of talent than first given credit for. Because "lucky" don't last this long. A&M can't get into the SEC quick enough IMO. They have a realistic chance of hurting LSU in recruiting. Many of the real LSU fans know this. I know some will disagree but LSU has elevated their program to be on the same level as Bama. And you've got some that would say they've surpassed us in the BCS era. Their conditioning and strength program is just as good as ours, they're recruiting is on the same level, they develop players on the same level as we do and their coaching is on the same level. If they win it this year (which I think they will) there is a VERY good chance they will be first repeat BCSNC's with the team they'll have returning next season and seeing what we're losing.

In other words they ain't going nowhere and they've proven to be warriors and a tough, tough win. So whatever weak links are on the coaching staff, they need to be identified and fixed. Whatever weak link is in our style of offense, it needs to be identified and fixed. Whatever weak link is in our preparation, it needs to be identified and fixed. Because its gotten to the point where it is a razor thin edge between getting beat and winning. We saw that Saturday night. When a single punt can be considered a "critical point in the game" then that says a lot to the margin for error in this conference. Bama needs to step it up.

 

[Rush]

I've always said, dating back to his days at LSU, that Saban is not a great gameday coach. He just isn't and never has been. I think back to the NC game with Texas and the decision early in the 1st quarter to try a long pass fake punt form deep in our territory, just weird stuff that is quite frankly, stupid. Sort of like letting the clock run when we have 1:30 left and two time outs and we should have gotten the ball around midfield had Maze fielded the punt. Just head scratching stuff. Or the inability to adjust in the Iron Bowl after halftime to their adjustments.

Saban's genius has always been in his recruiting, player development, and preparation leading up to the game. If he doesn't have you beat by then, then he's in trouble because he just isn't a good game-day coach. Sad but true. That said, I'm glad we have the man, he's one of the elite coaches in the nation, but when he faces teams that are just as talented and physically fit as his team he struggles to win against coaches who are better game-day coaches. Hopefully he will continue to learn and evolve as a coach and get better there because LSU and Les Miles aren't going anywhere and until Saban can turn that ship around we won't be winning anything important for a long time. It's also crucial that he set the tone Nov. 26th with a win and prove he's better than the Chizik/Gus combo, because they almost beat us is 2009 with a vastly inferior team, and did beat us last year after we blew a 24-0 lead. A win for Auburn this year, and Saban will have fallen behind two coaching staffs in the SEC West and he cannot afford for that to happen.

Excellent post...

 

[Al A Bama]

Listen you knuckle-heads!

If it weren't for Coach Saban, we would NOT have had an opportunity to be involved in a game of this magnitude on Saturday night.

We would NOT have the D that we have. We probably would not even be in the top 25. Coach Bryant lost BIG games also and he was an awesome coach!

Had you rather had R. Rodriguez instead? No way! There's not a better more focused coach in the country!

We've got the BEST. Sometimes the ball just does not bounce or get kicked your way. I do think that overall Bama had the best team except for a specific part of Special teams: filed goal kicker/punter.

If the Ref's had ruled correctly on that NON-interception, you would be talking about how GREAT Coach Saban is! There's no way LSU was going to score a TD on Saturday night.

He's the MAN and I'm glad he's our COACH! Nuff said!!!!!!!

Let's get FOCUSED on the job at hand: Mississippi State! They are going to be tough on Saturday night. Also, be pulling for Stanford and Oky State to get beat. Oky State looks more like a basketball team with the scores in their games.

Roll Tide Roll!!!!!!!:BigA:

 

[Al A Bama]

Would you rather have Coach Brown from Texas or Coach Saban? answer Coach Saban!

Would you rather have Coach Miles from SUL or Coach Saban? answer Coach Saban!

Would you rather have ___________ (fill in the Blank) or Coach Saban? answer Coach Saban!

That game's over! Let's move on to Mississippi State!!!!!!!

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Would you rather have Coach Brown from Texas or Coach Saban? answer Coach Saban!

Would you rather have Coach Miles from SUL or Coach Saban? answer Coach Saban!

Would you rather have ___________ (fill in the Blank) or Coach Saban? answer Coach Saban!

That game's over! Let's move on to Mississippi State!!!!!!!

Simmer down haw-sst. No one is putting CNS out to the pasture. The reality of it is this isn't the Big 12-2, PAC 12, Big 10, the ACC or the Big East. Where just having a top notch talented team will do it for ya. The competition level in the SEC is at a CRAZY and SICK all time high level right now. There is almost ZERO room for weaknesses on a team. You have to get an edge at levels that other teams in other conferences don't even have to bother with. Listen to some interviews with Urban Meyer or Saban about the competiveness in the SEC at ALL LEVELS. Not just on gameday. When your team plays in that type of environment every element of the program on a weekly basis MUST be evaluated to the "Nth" degree or basically you're going into the next game unprepared.

 

[RJ YellowHammer]

Simmer down haw-sst. No one is putting CNS out to the pasture. The reality of it is this isn't the Big 12-2, PAC 12, Big 10, the ACC or the Big East. Where just having an top notch talented team will do it for ya. The competition level in the SEC is at a CRAZY and SICK all time high level right now. There is almost ZERO room for weaknesses on a team. You have to get an edge at levels that other teams in other conferences don't even have to bother with. Listent to some interviews with Urban Meyer or Saban about the competiveness in the SEC at ALL LEVELS. Not just on gameday. When your team plays in that type of environment every element of the program on a weekly basis MUST be evaluated to the "Nth" degree or basically you're going into the next game unprepared.

Yep. Yep. And Yep.

Whether we like it or not, great coaches lose close games all the time. Anyone know when the last time Bill Belichick won a Super Bowl was? It's been awhile - 2005. And that doesn't mean he's not a great coach, but that's a lot of failure. No sane Patriots fan is calling for The Hoody to be fired, and no rational Alabama Fan should think that the program would be better off without Nick Saban stalking the sideline.

Look, Alabama fans and SEC fans are prone to beat our collective chests and brag about the SEC being "NFL Jr." That's a double edge sword folks. The margin for error is razor thin and it cost us in a big way Saturday Night. Alabama made mistakes and mental errors that you can't make and still beat a team as good as LSU. As CNS said himself at the post game press conference, a lot of that falls on his shoulders. There's nothing heretical about saying that; I'm sure Coach Saban would if you asked him.

Do we have the kind of team that can beat LSU? Absolutely! Did we do what needed to be done to make it happen? Absolutely not! Rest assured that our HC is doing everything he can to make sure that he, his staff, and his players learn from this and are better for it.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Yep. Yep. And Yep.

Whether we like it or not, great coaches lose close games all the time. Anyone know when the last time Bill Belichick won a Super Bowl was? It's been awhile - 2005. And that doesn't mean he's not a great coach, but that's a lot of failure. No sane Patriots fan is calling for The Hoody to be fired, and no rational Alabama Fan should think that the program would be better off without Nick Saban stalking the sideline.

Look, Alabama fans and SEC fans are prone to beat our collective chests and brag about the SEC being "NFL Jr." That's a double edge sword folks. The margin for error is razor thin and it cost us in a big way Saturday Night. Alabama made mistakes and mental errors that you can't make and still beat a team as good as LSU. As CNS said himself at the post game press conference, a lot of that falls on his shoulders. There's nothing heretical about saying that; I'm sure Coach Saban would if you asked him.

Do we have the kind of team that can beat LSU? Absolutely! Did we do what needed to be done to make it happen? Absolutely not! Rest assured that our HC is doing everything he can to make sure that he, his staff, and his players learn from this and are better for it.

And to add as a footnote. When things are going your team's way (i.e. LSU this season) it seems it will always be like that, your coach will forever make the right decisions and everything he does will always work out. Then it doesn't. That is why as a coach in the SEC, it is SO, SO, important to continue to critique to the Nth degree your team and push like crazy to continue to improve. Because it is a fine line between 1st and 4th in this conference.

 

[BAMARICH]

That is my only point - I don't care for the "scapegoating" tone posted by some (not all). There are enough questions to go around for everybody and like you, I suspect every player and coach on that team has been asking them of themselves since the clock hit zero.

One point - If Cade had hit one of those first two kicks ...

If you're a passionate fan, in games like this you'll always want to ask "what went wrong?" Sometimes, it's the simply fact that you performed your best and got beat by a superior team... and at other times, it's one player mistake after another after another. In this game, there are many of us who look at the coaching staff and say "why did you make these decisions at these points in the game?"

For me, win or lose, those are still important questions. People have repeatedly said in this thread something along the lines of "we'd not be having these discussions if one of these plays would have gone in our favor. Yes... I would.

You don't put Shelley in to try a FG out of his range... you don't outthink yourself and try a gimmick pass when your offense has finally gotten into a running game rhythm and has steamrolled down the field to the 30... you don't depend on a QB to put the ball in your best player's hand via a pass in OT. Maybe no one else questions things after a victory... but I do. And... if Saban practices what he preaches, he does also because you don't measure things via a win-loss record.

 

[SimplyTide]

If you're a passionate fan, in games like this you'll always want to ask "what went wrong?" Sometimes, it's the simply fact that you performed your best and got beat by a superior team... and at other times, it's one player mistake after another after another. In this game, there are many of us who look at the coaching staff and say "why did you make these decisions at these points in the game?"

For me, win or lose, those are still important questions. People have repeatedly said in this thread something along the lines of "we'd not be having these discussions if one of these plays would have gone in our favor. Yes... I would.

You don't put Shelley in to try a FG out of his range... you don't outthink yourself and try a gimmick pass when your offense has finally gotten into a running game rhythm and has steamrolled down the field to the 30... you don't depend on a QB to put the ball in your best player's hand via a pass in OT. Maybe no one else questions things after a victory... but I do. And... if Saban practices what he preaches, he does also because you don't measure things via a win-loss record.

A great point - these were not bad decisions because they failed- they were bad decisions BEFORE they failed. Failure may be increasing the passion of the discussion, but it doesn't change the point of the fundamental mistake, and that was in the decision making in these critical moments.

As Saban is famous for saying, you focus on the small things and the results will take care of themselves. You focus on the results and you will fail before you give yourself a chance. In those FG attempts, it seemed that Saban was focused on the results, not the details.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Ultimately the buck stops with the head coach. So, in theory even the mistakes made by the players fall on Coach Saban and staff. There are degrees that we all can go with any aspect of this game. I just hope we don't run to the extremes.

 

[BAMARICH]

I've always said, dating back to his days at LSU, that Saban is not a great gameday coach. He just isn't and never has been. I think back to the NC game with Texas and the decision early in the 1st quarter to try a long pass fake punt form deep in our territory, just weird stuff that is quite frankly, stupid. Sort of like letting the clock run when we have 1:30 left and two time outs and we should have gotten the ball around midfield had Maze fielded the punt. Just head scratching stuff. Or the inability to adjust in the Iron Bowl after halftime to their adjustments.

Saban's genius has always been in his recruiting, player development, and preparation leading up to the game. If he doesn't have you beat by then, then he's in trouble because he just isn't a good game-day coach. Sad but true. That said, I'm glad we have the man, he's one of the elite coaches in the nation, but when he faces teams that are just as talented and physically fit as his team he struggles to win against coaches who are better game-day coaches. Hopefully he will continue to learn and evolve as a coach and get better there because LSU and Les Miles aren't going anywhere and until Saban can turn that ship around we won't be winning anything important for a long time. It's also crucial that he set the tone Nov. 26th with a win and prove he's better than the Chizik/Gus combo, because they almost beat us is 2009 with a vastly inferior team, and did beat us last year after we blew a 24-0 lead. A win for Auburn this year, and Saban will have fallen behind two coaching staffs in the SEC West and he cannot afford for that to happen.

There's a lot of truth in this post, especially the first paragraph. I'll add this caveat to the observation. I think he is a terrific gameday coach... but only on the defensive side of the ball. If we're getting beat on the first drive by the other team, they're going to have to find another way... because we will and do adjust on that side of the ball.

The Texas game two years ago was pointed out... I think you could also look at how
we "take the foot off the accelerator" too early as well... or how we stray from our offensive identity in crucial situations. The thing for me is the fact that these things seem to be a trend for us... and that's different from being a one-game anomoly.

 

[RJ YellowHammer]

And to add as a footnote. When things are going your team's way (i.e. LSU this season) it seems it will always be like that, your coach will forever make the right decisions and everything he does will always work out. Then it doesn't. That is why as a coach in the SEC, it is SO, SO, important to continue to critique to the Nth degree your team and push like crazy to continue to improve. Because it is a fine line between 1st and 4th in this conference.

Our staff in constantly self scouting and evaluating every aspect of the team with a fine toothed comb. CNS usually appears more agitated at post game press conferences after we win big than when we lose close because he knows it's hard to kid a 18-22 year old's attention after they stomp someone.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

There's a lot of truth in this post, especially the first paragraph. I'll add this caveat to the observation. I think he is a terrific gameday coach... but only on the defensive side of the ball. If we're getting beat on the first drive by the other team, they're going to have to find another way... because we will and do adjust on that side of the ball.

The Texas game two years ago was pointed out... I think you could also look at how
we "take the foot off the accelerator" too early as well... or how we stray from our offensive identity in crucial situations. The thing for me is the fact that these things seem to be a trend for us... and that's different from being a one-game anomoly.

Do you think it is this way because he doesn't allow much leeway for the OC? It is well known that Coach Saban is the defensive coordinator and it is obvious from a defensive perspective we can change gameplans at the drop of a hat on that side of the ball. Yet we seem to cannot do this on the offensive side of the ball.

 

[RJ YellowHammer]

Do you think it is this way because he doesn't allow much leeway for the OC? It is well known that Coach Saban is the defensive coordinator and it is obvious from a defensive perspective we can change gameplans at the drop of a hat on that side of the ball. Yet we seem to cannot do this on the offensive side of the ball.

At times, I think CNS' awareness of our offensive tendencies has actually hurt us. In so many words, everyone saying we should have just pounded the rock on the OT drive or when Maze threw the INT out of the wildcat mean: who cares if they know what we're going to do? Just execute better than the other guys and play to your strength.