Sadly we were outcoached again...

[Bamabuzzard]

At times, I think CNS' awareness of our offensive tendencies has actually hurt us. In so many words, everyone saying we should have just pounded the rock on the OT drive or when Maze threw the INT out of the wildcat mean: who cares if they know what we're going to do? Just execute better than the other guys and play to your strength.

At times I wish Coach would just hire an OC with his same offensive mindset and simply let him run it. But the next paycheck The University of Alabama issues me will be my first.

 

[BAMARICH]

Do you think it is this way because he doesn't allow much leeway for the OC? It is well known that Coach Saban is the defensive coordinator and it is obvious from a defensive perspective we can change gameplans at the drop of a hat on that side of the ball. Yet we seem to cannot do this on the offensive side of the ball.

You know, I've wondered about this and don't really have an answer... and I don't know any firm answer could be given unless people on staff made it public. However, I think there's some plausible answers that bear considering.

One... Saban thinks most team's defenses can adjust like his... and puts emphasis to CJM on always prepared for that. Some of our most boneheaded calls IMO come after a timeout... when another team's DC has possibly made an adjustment. Two, CNS might have a tendency to "overcoach" or "undercoach" CJM on gameday. Three, when you get top-shelf players, you tend to believe they are capable of doing more... and therefore expand your playbook to include additional plays. I mention this one solely because these issues were not apparent in the 08 season... a season where our offense (due to talent) was primarily a running team. That year, we focused on perfecting what we did to the point that we forced our will on other teams. If this one plays into things, it's probably the LSU and Florida game that year that changed our philosophy.

Bottom line... I don't know. But I do think it's safe to say that as long as Saban is our HC, we will primarily win games because of our defense... not our offense. That's just like saying Dan Mullen will always win games at MSU because of the exact opposite.

 

[TexasTideFan]

In this game, there are many of us who look at the coaching staff and say "why did you make these decisions at these points in the game?"

I think the coaching staff looked at this game film yesterday and probably honestly said among themselves that we lost the game for this team. I think the players know that to a degree as well. Now, how they regroup and refocus on the remainder of the season is going to be what is important.

 

[TIDEnGA]

I think the coaching staff looked at this game film yesterday and probably honestly said among themselves that we lost the game for this team. I think the players know that to a degree as well. Now, how they regroup and refocus on the remainder of the season is going to be what is important.

I don't know about that. Someone help me because it was late, I was tired and upset after the game. During post game interview I seem to remember Coach Saban saying something along the lines of the players looking at the tape on Sunday and being sick about certain plays that were not made. I hope he and the rest of the staff got to see it was on then just as much if not more.

 

[SimplyTide]

I don't know about that. Someone help me because it was late, I was tired and upset after the game. During post game interview I seem to remember Coach Saban saying something along the lines of the players looking at the tape on Sunday and being sick about certain plays that were not made. I hope he and the rest of the staff got to see it was on then just as much if not more.

Even if they recognize their mistakes, we will never hear about it. They will correct them in private and work with the players to correct their mistakes.

 

[257WBY]

I don't get the line about "it was a good game plan but the players failed to execute". The coaches need to put the players in a position to be successful. These kids are the top recruits in the nation and only scored 6 points in a game plus OT. How many points would we have scored with bad coaching? Any idiot including me gives Trent the ball 40 times and runs behind Barrett and goes on to the NC game. If that doesn't work, you say "I gave it to my best player and they were just better than us tonight".

 

[engl6914]

If you're a passionate fan, in games like this you'll always want to ask "what went wrong?" Sometimes, it's the simply fact that you performed your best and got beat by a superior team... and at other times, it's one player mistake after another after another. In this game, there are many of us who look at the coaching staff and say "why did you make these decisions at these points in the game?"

For me, win or lose, those are still important questions. People have repeatedly said in this thread something along the lines of "we'd not be having these discussions if one of these plays would have gone in our favor. Yes... I would.

You don't put Shelley in to try a FG out of his range... you don't outthink yourself and try a gimmick pass when your offense has finally gotten into a running game rhythm and has steamrolled down the field to the 30... you don't depend on a QB to put the ball in your best player's hand via a pass in OT. Maybe no one else questions things after a victory... but I do. And... if Saban practices what he preaches, he does also because you don't measure things via a win-loss record.

Look, Saban is one of the great masters of the college football game. He is why we were even involved in a game between 1st and 2nd ranked teams. Of all the decisions a coach has to make in a critical game some of them are going to turn out in retrospect to have been wrong. Coach Miles didn't call a perfect game, either. And sometimes a coach takes a chance on a play knowing that if it fails it was worth the gamble for the potential benefit if it succeeds.

In a game like Saturday's each coach is going to have to take some chances; the two teams are just too close in ability to not take some chances. I'm having trouble with each of the three criticisms here. Yes, you do have Shelley try the long field goals; all you have to do is hit one of them and we win the game. Alternative is to punt with the possibility of LSU getting the ball at their 20, only 10 yards from the original scrimmage line, and at the cost of missing a precious scoring opportunity. The gimmick play is, I guess, Maze's pass to the goal line, and yes you do make a quick strike to the goal line after setting the defensive team up with a series of runs--coaches everywhere do that; it's called being unpredictable and avoiding patterns.

I see no problem passing to TR; LSU had bottled him up since early in the 1st half. The yardage he was getting was through passing to him.

A football team is a complex entity and doesn't lend itself to picking out one aspect in isolation. I saw many predictions on this board before the game of Alabama scoring as many as 30-35 points--incredible. It was always going to be a low scoring game decided on a turnover or a penalty or special teams. Given that, each coach is going to have to take some chances. I'm wondering if some of the posters calling for a 24-30 point Alabama point total are on this thread right now blaming the coach for the wrong prediction.

This kind of finger pointing poisons the atmosphere. Leave CNS alone and let him work. Make it miserable for him and we will return to misery.

 

[BFANLC]

Look, Saban is one of the great masters of the college football game. He is why we were even involved in a game between 1st and 2nd ranked teams. Of all the decisions a coach has to make in a critical game some of them are going to turn out in retrospect to have been wrong. Coach Miles didn't call a perfect game, either. And sometimes a coach takes a chance on a play knowing that if it fails it was worth the gamble for the potential benefit if it succeeds.

In a game like Saturday's each coach is going to have to take some chances; the two teams are just too close in ability to not take some chances. I'm having trouble with each of the three criticisms here. Yes, you do have Shelley try the long field goals; all you have to do is hit one of them and we win the game. Alternative is to punt with the possibility of LSU getting the ball at their 20, only 10 yards from the original scrimmage line, and at the cost of missing a precious scoring opportunity. The gimmick play is, I guess, Maze's pass to the goal line, and yes you do make a quick strike to the goal line after setting the defensive team up with a series of runs--coaches everywhere do that; it's called being unpredictable and avoiding patterns.

I see no problem passing to TR; LSU had bottled him up since early in the 1st half. The yardage he was getting was through passing to him.

A football team is a complex entity and doesn't lend itself to picking out one aspect in isolation. I saw many predictions on this board before the game of Alabama scoring as many as 30-35 points--incredible. It was always going to be a low scoring game decided on a turnover or a penalty or special teams. Given that, each coach is going to have to take some chances. I'm wondering if some of the posters calling for a 24-30 point Alabama point total are on this thread right now blaming the coach for the wrong prediction.

This kind of finger pointing poisons the atmosphere. Leave CNS alone and let him work. Make it miserable for him and we will return to misery.

I have a problem with the mentality that if we make one of those Field goals we win. Don't you think Lsu plays would have been more aggressive if we had made a fg? Dont you think that if Bama was ahead with 1:30 to go Lsu goes for it? Another question, why not call time outs and try and score? If fgs are the right answer lets call a time out,make some yardage, and try one? Also when would kicking a fg been a mistake? What if we had tried it 6-8 times would that been a mistake?The first one I can see, the second and third I have issues with. We tried it it didnt work,lets punt and get some field position.

 

[CapstoneTider]

Warning: Quickly types babble rant.

The expectations have been set too high for Coach Saban, and people are now pointing out some truths that it just now seems acceptable to discuss.
Coach Saban is not leaps and bounds better than the other elite coaches. When equal talent or better talent is presented, we have had some problems. Losing to Louisiana Monroe should not be overlooked nor should the Auburn game last year and the past two LSU games. We were out-coached by Lane Tiffin in 2009 imo. But, I believe there is no better coach in the country either.

Last years schedule was unprecedented in its unfairness of having 80% of the teams coming off a bye week, and believe if we had had a normal schedule, that this slight slump from the prior two years would be minimal. Last years schedule lost us two games imo. We went undefeated for two years in regular season prior, and went 8 games into this season without a loss, minus last year. It will even out within the next two seasons. Chances are that we beat Auburn this year and will at least split the next two with LSU.

The recruiting Saban Rule didn't help matters either, because recruiting and developing talent is where Coach Saban is near peerless.
I don't believe any of us would trade coach Saban for any other coach due to his style fitting our program so well, like Stallings but better. I am concerned that he might be winding down a little, but believe that he has a good 6 to 7 years of near peak performance left at coaching before he contemplates retiring. I am hoping.

There is not a better coach in country imo, but there are peers as mentioned. Obviously Les is one of them, but you have to wonder about the brick and mortar put in place there by Saban when he was in his early 50's. No way LSU would be the monster they have been since he has left. I believe Okie State is better coached today!

I have been very active following all aspects of the program since the late 70's and was standing tall through the painful years of recent past. LSU has yet to go undefeated in league play under coach Miles, and they won their NC with 2 losses. They might change this year, but the two recent losses will be corrected. Saban is a better overall coach than Les Miles, no question.

 

[ontopp]

Hindsight is 20/20,But I will say this.. I think we should have punted on some of this missed attempts .... let our D do what it does best...also game situations change if with points and no points. Roll Tide :wink:

 

[subherbanite]

Dont you think that if Bama was ahead with 1:30 to go Lsu goes for it?.

Ummmmmm yeah they would, because that means they would be on the verge of losing(we were tied going into OT)

Another question, why not call time outs and try and score? If fgs are the right answer lets call a time out,make some yardage, and try one?.

Their punter was "all world" that night, he pinned us back repeatedly. We ended up with the ball on the 20yd line. If all of our FG attempts are being deemed too far than we would've needed 55+yds to get into range. L.S.U. had all 3 of their TOs so a lot could've went wrong for us there.

Also when would kicking a fg been a mistake? What if we had tried it 6-8 times would that been a mistake?The first one I can see, the second and third I have issues with. We tried it it didnt work,lets punt and get some field position.

They didn't score after any of the missed kicks FYI. We had great field position twice off of INTs and we didn't score touchdowns. Field position had nothing to do with our offensive problems: negative plays, missed assignments and penalties killed us.

 

[Mamacalled]

Hindsight is 20/20,But I will say this.. I think we should have punted on some of this missed attempts .... let our D do what it does best...also game situations change if with points and no points. Roll Tide :wink:

The problem with punting, our coverage has been abysmal. If we had punted and they made a big return then the same people complaining that we should have punted would be saying we should have kicked a FG and get the points in what was expected to be a low scoring affair.

 

[BFANLC]

Ummmmmm yeah they would, because that means they would be on the verge of losing(we were tied going into OT)

Ummmmmmm I know that they would have???? Duh. I was saying that as an example that just because some people believe if Bama makes ONE of those we win, when in fact it would have guaranteed nothing.


Their punter was "all world" that night, he pinned us back repeatedly. We ended up with the ball on the 20yd line. If all of our FG attempts are being deemed too far than we would've needed 55+yds to get into range. L.S.U. had all 3 of their TOs so a lot could've went wrong for us there.




They didn't score after any of the missed kicks FYI. We had great field position twice off of INTs and we didn't score touchdowns. Field position had nothing to do with our offensive problems: negative plays, missed assignments and penalties killed us.

I know that , I watch the game. I also know that instead of their "All world punter" kicking the ball deep into our territory that if we punt he ISNT able to do that. Let me illustrate....if he kicks from his 5-10 we get the ball at our 20-30 heck even maybe the 40(gasp). Instead he kicked from either his side of the 50 or ours and was able to be All world. You see what I did there? You win games with defense, running the ball, and field position.Why on earth would you give a great team the ball at their 40 every time????

 

[glasscutter256]

how is it whining to say the coaches didn't have a very good game? are the people who say aj should have hit such and such or that foster should have done such and such whining? we lost a game we should have won, due to both player errors and coaching errors. is there something wrong with saying that? or are we only supposed to post cheerleading posts. i don't see anyone saying saban stinks, that he should be fired. or whatever. they're saying he botched some things pretty badly. how is that whining?

This whole post is whining to me. You are whining that people disagree with you. I think the coaches did a fine job. Cade has hit those distances before and sometimes when we play a good defensive team, points are a premium and you take a chance and get points when you can. If we hit just 1 out of those long field goals, we win the game. Give me those chances and I'll take it every time. I think Cade will hit over 45 yds about 50% of the time. He just didn't on Sat. Our defense held them pretty well. Pushing them back 15 yards will not make that big of a difference. These games are always tough for me to take because one small detail of one play changes the whole outcome of the game. Just bear it and hope we learn from this and take it out on MSU.

 

[glasscutter256]

I know that , I watch the game. I also know that instead of their "All world punter" kicking the ball deep into our territory that if we punt he ISNT able to do that. Let me illustrate....if he kicks from his 5-10 we get the ball at our 20-30 heck even maybe the 40(gasp). Instead he kicked from either his side of the 50 or ours and was able to be All world. You see what I did there? You win games with defense, running the ball, and field position.Why on earth would you give a great team the ball at their 40 every time????

With that reasoning, maybe you should just punt on first down. And by the way, you win by scoring points. That's what we were trying to do. Cade is capable of hitting from those distances.

 

[Crimson Surfer]

This whole post is whining to me. You are whining that people disagree with you. I think the coaches did a fine job. Cade has hit those distances before and sometimes when we play a good defensive team, points are a premium and you take a chance and get points when you can. If we hit just 1 out of those long field goals, we win the game. Give me those chances and I'll take it every time. I think Cade will hit over 45 yds about 50% of the time. He just didn't on Sat. Our defense held them pretty well. Pushing them back 15 yards will not make that big of a difference. These games are always tough for me to take because one small detail of one play changes the whole outcome of the game. Just bear it and hope we learn from this and take it out on MSU.

I agree. We need to stop the finger pointing and Monday morning quarterbacking. Bama did enough to win the game against the number one team in the country however, the breaks just didn't go Bama's way. Now a lot of folks want to attack CNS and the staff about being outcoached and sadly some are even attacking some of the Bama players. They all gave it there all. LSU did too, they showed there dirty character with the cheap shots on Dre by the honey bagger, the twisting of Barrett Jones ankle in the pile, the interception that wasn't etc. Lets just move on with some dignity and respect for the Bama team. Bama is #3 in the BCS for crying out loud.

I am only reading this thread and looking at it as mod looking for any board violations.

 

[bamatidejake]

It's sickening to see the volitile reaction to Coach Saban. He's the best coach in FOOTBALL! He didn't get Outcoached!!! The LSU players out executed the Bama players! We had 6 scoring opportunities and scored on 2! LSU had 3 scoring opportunities and scored on all 3. There are a lot of ifs and buts but I think we all know as most of the country that Bama lost the game, LSU didn't win it. Saban put us in the position to win against an equally talented team, and in the end LSU made mistakes that didn't hurt, we made mistakes that did! Get off of Coach Saban! He's the best thing that's happened to Bama since the Bear (Who died before I was born), and even I can see Saban's potential for greatness if we as a fan base will just get his back and say " ok lets see how we can win the next one!"

 

[BFANLC]

With that reasoning, maybe you should just punt on first down. And by the way, you win by scoring points. That's what we were trying to do. Cade is capable of hitting from those distances.

I sure dont know how you came up with that based on anything that Ive posted. We all know what our kickers capabilities are, and so does Saban. I think this Saturday we should do the same thing since it was such great calls,heck lets even do it in the au game. I say we should even try it from our 40, I mean it could happen right? Its all about scoring points in all. Not using sound fundamental football judgement. I mean NO team has ever won a game because the other teams FPOS sucked.

 

[dvldog]

The only thing coaching wise that stuck out at me was we did not seem to make any adjustments at half time that made us look any different from the first half. Maybe they thought we had moved the ball good enough that adjustments were not really needed. Course overtime was pretty ugly. For what its worth (not much) I think we have a great team and a great coaching staff. You ain't gonna win them all although its always nice to hope for that!

 

[subherbanite]

I know that , I watch the game. I also know that instead of their "All world punter" kicking the ball deep into our territory that if we punt he ISNT able to do that. Let me illustrate....if he kicks from his 5-10 we get the ball at our 20-30 heck even maybe the 40(gasp). Instead he kicked from either his side of the 50 or ours and was able to be All world. You see what I did there? You win games with defense, running the ball, and field position.Why on earth would you give a great team the ball at their 40 every time????

It did not matter where they started their drives...............they imploded almost every time they had the ball.

After Lee's 1st INT they started at our 47yd line, moved to their 24yd line, imploded going backwards and missed a 49yd FG
After Lee's 2nd INT they started at their 35yd line, gained 6 yards and made a 46yd FG.
They also started at our 45yd line after he shanked a punt and went 3 and out.