Stiffarmtrophy.com projects Ingram to win in a close one (updated 12/12, 9am)

[NYBamaFan]

re: Suh, Gerhart and the Heisman (stiffarmtrophy.com at 3PM CDT has Ingram 2nd)

You must have missed where I'm an alum of both schools and a Bama fan foremost, but we're really doing a good job with the ignorant sparring in this one.

I know that, but you seem to want to put your "other" guy on par with Ingram. That isn't going to fly with me.

Peace... :cheers2:

 

[BigAl5833]

re: Suh, Gerhart and the Heisman (stiffarmtrophy.com at 3PM CDT has Ingram 2nd)

Cecil just said he voted Ingram 1st, Suh 2nd, McCoy 3rd

 

[CajunCrimson]

re: Suh, Gerhart and the Heisman (stiffarmtrophy.com at 3PM CDT has Ingram 2nd)

Who would you rather have on your team? Gerhart? Ingram? Suh?

That's easy to me.........RTR Mark! Bring home the Hardware son!!

 

[Skeeterpop]

re: Suh, Gerhart and the Heisman (stiffarmtrophy.com at 3PM CDT has Ingram 2nd)

Reading between the numbers...

If you look close at the numbers that were on the website early this morning vs the ones that just updated you will see a very interesting trend..

12/7 Projected Votes Early Morning Mid Day Change

Gerhart 1572 1127 445 Down
Suh 1084 1035 49 Down
Ingram 775 1039 264 UP
McCoy 616 845 229 UP


I love the trends over the past 4 hours.. I hope this keeps up!!!!!!!

Kevin Scarb. Voted Ingram #2... Rolando #1.. I hope this doesn't come back to hurt Ingram.. Dumb vote if you ask me.. I understand but we all know Ro want win, so why waist your vote and hurt Mark by putting him second...

 

[CajunCrimson]

re: Suh, Gerhart and the Heisman (stiffarmtrophy.com at 3PM CDT has Ingram 2nd)

Reading between the numbers...

If you look close at the numbers that were on the website early this morning vs the ones that just updated you will see a very interesting trend..

12/7 Projected Votes Early Morning Mid Day Change

Gerhart 1572 1127 445 Down
Suh 1084 1035 49 Down
Ingram 775 1039 264 UP
McCoy 616 845 229 UP


I love the trends over the past 4 hours.. I hope this keeps up!!!!!!!

Kevin Scarb. Voted Ingram #2... Rolando #1.. I hope this doesn't come back to hurt Ingram.. Dumb vote if you ask me.. I understand but we all know Ro want win, so why waist your vote and hurt Mark by putting him second...

I wonder if many of the early votes were from before this weekend's games!?

 

[REBELZED]

re: Suh, Gerhart and the Heisman (stiffarmtrophy.com at 3PM CDT has Ingram 2nd)

I could analyze how those losses fall on Harbaugh's time management or on the defense, to which Gerhart doesn't contribute. But I'll spare you since this objection goes right back to my original point that the biggest difference between these two guys is the quality of their surrounding players. Ingram can rest up while Richardson and Upchurch get snaps. Ingram can rely on other leaders on the team to step up and help him shoulder the burden--on both sides of the ball. Stanford doesn't have a McClain or a Javi, and I'm pretty sure the D wouldn't appreciate the implication that they haven't helped shoulder our squad at all this year. Was it Ingram saving the UT game from field goal after field goal?

I'm sorry, but if you think that the same level of personal responsibility for the team's success exists for Ingram and Gerhart, then you're simply wrong. The two teams don't need to be undefeated for these players to be considered equally. Again, I want Mark to win this, but its disingenuous to imply that Gerhart shouldn't be considered in the same breath.

But in the same breath, couldn't you say that Ingram's year has been MORE impressive because he's been able to stand out on such a good team?

Roy and Trent are excellent backs that just about any school in the country would love to have, but they're behind Ingram on the depth chart. That's not just a coincidence.

Let me put it this way: Put Ingram on Stanford's team and Gerhart on Bama's. What would the numbers look like then? IMO, Ingram's would be a LOT higher at Stanford than Gerhart's, and Gerhart would be 3rd string at Bama. Obviously not scientific, but you'd be hard pressed to convince anyone that's not a Cardinal/Gerhart fan any different...

Your argument actually supports Ingram's case. Of course Gerhart will have ridiculous numbers, because Stanford has nothing/noone else. They're a one-trick pony, and they rode that pony to an 8-4 record. Meanwhile Ingram is putting up outstanding numbers while fending off 2 excellent backs that would start almost anywhere else in the country and Bama is undefeated because of him...

 

[37bamagreats55]

re: Suh, Gerhart and the Heisman (stiffarmtrophy.com at 3PM CDT has Ingram 2nd)

But in the same breath, couldn't you say that Ingram's year has been MORE impressive because he's been able to stand out on such a good team?

Roy and Trent are excellent backs that just about any school in the country would love to have, but they're behind Ingram on the depth chart. That's not just a coincidence.

Let me put it this way: Put Ingram on Stanford's team and Gerhart on Bama's. What would the numbers look like then? IMO, Ingram's would be a LOT higher at Stanford than Gerhart's, and Gerhart would be 3rd string at Bama. Obviously not scientific, but you'd be hard pressed to convince anyone that's not a Cardinal/Gerhart fan any different...

Your argument actually supports Ingram's case. Of course Gerhart will have ridiculous numbers, because Stanford has nothing/noone else. They're a one-trick pony, and they rode that pony to an 8-4 record. Meanwhile Ingram is putting up outstanding numbers while fending off 2 excellent backs that would start almost anywhere else in the country and Bama is undefeated because of him...

HAMMER MEET MR. NAIL.:BigA:

 

[P0vv3R]

re: Suh, Gerhart and the Heisman (stiffarmtrophy.com at 3PM CDT has Ingram 2nd)

But in the same breath, couldn't you say that Ingram's year has been MORE impressive because he's been able to stand out on such a good team?

Roy and Trent are excellent backs that just about any school in the country would love to have, but they're behind Ingram on the depth chart. That's not just a coincidence.

Let me put it this way: Put Ingram on Stanford's team and Gerhart on Bama's. What would the numbers look like then? IMO, Ingram's would be a LOT higher at Stanford than Gerhart's, and Gerhart would be 3rd string at Bama. Obviously not scientific, but you'd be hard pressed to convince anyone that's not a Cardinal/Gerhart fan any different...

Your argument actually supports Ingram's case. Of course Gerhart will have ridiculous numbers, because Stanford has nothing/noone else. They're a one-trick pony, and they rode that pony to an 8-4 record. Meanwhile Ingram is putting up outstanding numbers while fending off 2 excellent backs that would start almost anywhere else in the country and Bama is undefeated because of him...

I couldn't agree more...

 

[RedStar]

re: Suh, Gerhart and the Heisman (stiffarmtrophy.com at 3PM CDT has Ingram 2nd)

If Gerhart win's it'll be the travesty since George Rogers won. The Heisman will lose even more credibility.

Giving it to someone like Suh or Ingram would at least give it some shred of legitimacy again.

 

[GreatDanish]

re: Suh, Gerhart and the Heisman (stiffarmtrophy.com at 3PM CDT has Ingram 2nd)

Gotta be honest about Gerhart. I don't want to like him because of Ingram. I want Ingram to get Gerhart's votes.
But, let me make my case for Gerhart.
- He ran for 200+ three times - against Washington, Oregon, and Notre Dame.
- In their loss to Cal, Gerhart did everything possible to win that game - averaged 7 ypc, and got 4 TDs.
- The flaw on his record was the Wake Forest game, that Stanford probably would have won had he had his "normal" game. But, he still went for 94 total yards.
- The only other game where he had fewer than 100 rushing yards was Oregon State, when he "only" rushed for 96 yards, but he had 107 total yards.

I understand the whole PAC-10 run defense thing, but consider:
- Gerhart gained 200 yards on the ground against Washington. LSU only had 149 as a team against Washington.
- He put up 134 against UCLA. UT only had 115 rushing yards as a team against UCLA.
- Gerhart had 125 rushing yards against Arizona State. Georgia had 92 rushing yards as a team.
In other words, Gerhart put up more rushing yards against common opponents than entire SEC teams. We can knock LSU, UT, and UGA's rushing attacks, but to outrush all three of them against common opponents has to somewhat legitimize his numbers.

I still think Ingram is better, and deserves the Heisman over Gerhart. But, I don't want to dismiss Gerhart either. When I have seen him, he looks legit.

I would still vote:
1. Suh
2. Ingram
3. Gerhart

 

[Cardinal]

re: Suh, Gerhart and the Heisman (stiffarmtrophy.com at 3PM CDT has Ingram 2nd)

Let me put it this way: Put Ingram on Stanford's team and Gerhart on Bama's. What would the numbers look like then? IMO, Ingram's would be a LOT higher at Stanford than Gerhart's, and Gerhart would be 3rd string at Bama. Obviously not scientific, but you'd be hard pressed to convince anyone that's not a Cardinal/Gerhart fan any different...

I cannot disagree strongly enough with this statement.

 

[RedStar]

re: Suh, Gerhart and the Heisman (stiffarmtrophy.com at 3PM CDT has Ingram 2nd)

I cannot disagree strongly enough with this statement.

C'mon, you think Gerhart would be above Ingram or Richardson on the depth chart? I'm not saying he's not good, but he would hardly see the field at Alabama.

Trevor Barsamian looks like a beast against the goliaths of Delaware. But he'd never see the field if he played high school football in Alabama.

(I enjoy using Trevor B. analogies whenever possible, although I do feel ashamed that his name is being mentioned in a Heisman thread.)

 

[Skeeterpop]

re: Suh, Gerhart and the Heisman (stiffarmtrophy.com at 3PM CDT has Ingram 2nd)

I cannot disagree strongly enough with this statement.

You are correct.. Gerhart would be 2nd string behind Richardson.. because Ingram would be on Stanford's team..

 

[NYBamaFan]

re: Suh, Gerhart and the Heisman (stiffarmtrophy.com at 3PM CDT has Ingram 2nd)

You are correct.. Gerhart would be 2nd string behind Richardson.. because Ingram would be on Stanford's team..

Not sure - I think that Roy might get the nod...

 

[runtheoption22]

Re: Suh, Gerhart and the Heisman (stiffarmtrophy.com at 3PM CDT has Ingram 2nd)

Just updating the title to get some attention.

 

[rgw]

Re: Suh, Gerhart and the Heisman (stiffarmtrophy.com at 3PM CDT has Ingram 2nd)

Ingram's going to get the lead soon...he's really been catching up lately on their projections.

 

[bamadp]

Re: Suh, Gerhart and the Heisman (stiffarmtrophy.com at 3PM CDT has Ingram 2nd)

But in the same breath, couldn't you say that Ingram's year has been MORE impressive because he's been able to stand out on such a good team?

Roy and Trent are excellent backs that just about any school in the country would love to have, but they're behind Ingram on the depth chart. That's not just a coincidence.

Let me put it this way: Put Ingram on Stanford's team and Gerhart on Bama's. What would the numbers look like then? IMO, Ingram's would be a LOT higher at Stanford than Gerhart's, and Gerhart would be 3rd string at Bama. Obviously not scientific, but you'd be hard pressed to convince anyone that's not a Cardinal/Gerhart fan any different...

Your argument actually supports Ingram's case. Of course Gerhart will have ridiculous numbers, because Stanford has nothing/noone else. They're a one-trick pony, and they rode that pony to an 8-4 record. Meanwhile Ingram is putting up outstanding numbers while fending off 2 excellent backs that would start almost anywhere else in the country and Bama is undefeated because of him...

BINGO!!!

Bottom line...if Gerhart and MI swapped teams, Gerhart wouldn't be in the Heisman discussion. If MI had carried the ball as much as Gerhart, he'd have over 1900 yards.

 

[P. C. Pachyderm]

Re: Suh, Gerhart and the Heisman (stiffarmtrophy.com at 3PM CDT has Ingram 2nd)

Ingram's going to get the lead soon...he's really been catching up lately on their projections.

It's going to be nip and tuck ... but what may put Ingram over the top is the number of 2nd place votes he gets. Someone else may get more 1st place votes, but almost everybody will have Ingram in the top two or three.

Contrast that with Gerhart (for instance), who will get a lot of first place votes, but wasn't in Finebaum or Cecil's top three at all.

 

[REBELZED]

Re: Suh, Gerhart and the Heisman (stiffarmtrophy.com at 3PM CDT has Ingram 2nd)

I cannot disagree strongly enough with this statement.

It's no knock on Gerhart at all. I think he's a great RB and I'm not trying to take anything away from his accomplishments this season.

I just think that Ingram is the better RB and has more impressive stats against better D's. I also think that Gerhart would have a tough time unseating #3 and #5 if he and Ingram swapped teams. That being the case, I find it hard to give the award for "Best College Football Player" to a guy who might not even start were he on a better team...

 

[Alasippi]

Re: Suh, Gerhart and the Heisman (stiffarmtrophy.com at 3PM CDT has Ingram 2nd)

Gerhart had 205 yards against Notre Dame. That probably swayed about 100 votes from Midwestern writers who still believe Notre Dame is actually a factor in college football.

In reality he's not even in the same league with Ingram.

In games against ranked teams Ingram averaged 182 yards in total offense.

Gerhart averaged 157.

Where Gerhart is more impressive than Mark is that he averaged 157 yards in offense per game against unranked teams, while Mark averaged 131.

But Mark didn't play a lot in the second half against those unranked teams, while Gerhart did.

Mark could have rushed for 450 yards against Chattanooga and wrapped it up. But Coach S. wasn't going to have it, and Mark didn't want it. Not at the expense of the team and the teams championship goals.

So if Gerhart can win the Heisman for being the leader on offense for a team that lost four games then go ahead and prove it. The award is a joke.

I can't believe there's even a debate after Mark's performance Saturday.

Hopefully the Eastern writers will come through.

Mark should win it. There's not one doubt.

sip