DeBoer and recruiting

[AlabamaBEN11]

Feeling nervous about his ability to recruit. I knew coming in he didn’t had a great track record.

Reading comments like “he bounces from place to place before he poor / lack of recruiting catches up to him”

I’m sure this was brought up in the interview and I’m sure he said the right thing. I’m sure Saban has talked to him.

I expect maybe his first season to be our worst class since Saban took over (yes I know there are a few recruits there now) but maybe it will get better?

How do y’all feel about it? Especially with Georgia being the new “Alabama” in recruiting

 

[KrAzY3]

Here's a quote from a Washington fan on the Alabama Reddit, mind you this was point #5 and he was very complimentary of DeBoer, it just seemed like accurate analysis:

" Recruiting. End of day, DeBoer was god awful when it came to prep recruiting. Washington didn't land any of the 4 or 5 stars from Washington last year (and despite WA not being a prep powerhouse, it still produces good talent, e.g., Emeka Egbuka at Ohio State played prep ball in Washington). The Blue Bloods like Ohio State and Michigan secured our top state players, and Oregon grabbed two of them. The top player in Washington (RB) signed with ASU. Just ridiculous that DeBoer couldn't land one dude from our program's home state. Maybe he had a foot out the door, but he was not an impressive recruiter of prep talent. In fairness, maybe Baima recruits itself? "

DeBoer has not been a good recruiter, then again he's only been at the FBS level 5 total years, and at a power conference less than that. It's foreign to him, he's an Xs and Os guy, not a recruiter that much is clear. I've stayed away from this topic for a couple of days since I alluded to this a lot during the coaching search, but it isn't just that he recruited Washington poorly, it's that he recruited at Washington more poorly than his predecessor. So he's clearly a below average recruiter.

Now, what might change things?
A: He obviously can learn a lot from Saban.
B: NIL
C: A good staff

Previously, so much did fall on the head coach to lure recruits. If he couldn't recruit, you couldn't get your guy. Mike Shula crying at Tebow's house was only going to get you so far (for those saying it's easy to recruit at Alabama, remember we were happy when Shula had the 10th ranked class).

Now though, the most helpful thing for DeBoer is probably going to be a ton of NIL money. The people who want to support DeBoer, who love the hire, make sure Alabama has all the NIL money they need to keep the guys around and land new ones. Saban was certainly getting a discount on guys, these recruits don't know DeBoer so now there's probably going to be a tax instead. But, Ole Miss did it under Hugh Freeze, Texas A&M did it a couple years ago, so even if he doesn't get better fast at recruiting, money can smooth that over. But... that money needs to come in.

 

[GboyBama]

I worry about repeating the cycle from the Curry years. By the time CBC was told to find greener pastures, we were incredible on offense and national championship contenders. 1989 was my freshman year at the Capstone and late in the season we were ranked number two with a championship bowl matchup against Miami already inked, headed into the Iron Bowl. The problem was that the dude was probably never going to beat a Pat Dye led Auburn team if you gave him ten tries. Wrong mindset. Bad fit for Bama's historical strengths. Not tough enough.

It took bringing Stallings home to rediscover the program's hard nosed soul. In Bebes's first year, we may not have been nationally competitive (yet), but we sure as heck served notice on Auburn and stole their lunch money.

Seeing DeBoer's most recent team ranked 96th nationally in FBS total defense doesn't exactly fill me with confidence. Does he understand the grit required to get through weekly rivalry games in the hard knock SEC? Will his style be compatible with what I call Bama football's generational DNA as a team that primarily wins with toughness and defense? (our teams that have channeled that style have usually been our most successful) Will he be able to recruit at a high level with few existing relationships in our region?

I choose to be optimistic and I hear a lot of encouraging things about the guy, but these are real concerns for me. I hope they were at least considered at some level during the hiring process.

 

[81usaf92]

I worry about repeating the cycle from the Curry years. By the time CBC was told to find greener pastures, we were incredible on offense and national championship contenders. 1989 was my freshman year at the Capstone and late in the season we were ranked number two with a championship bowl matchup against Miami already inked, headed into the Iron Bowl. The problem was that the dude was probably never going to beat a Pat Dye led Auburn team if you gave him ten tries. Wrong mindset. Bad fit for Bama's historical strengths. Not tough enough.

It took bringing Stallings home to rediscover the program's hard nosed soul. In Bebes's first year, we may not have been nationally competitive (yet), but we sure as heck served notice on Auburn and stole their lunch money.

Seeing DeBoer's most recent team ranked 96th nationally in FBS total defense doesn't exactly fill me with confidence. Does he understand the grit required to get through weekly rivalry games in the hard knock SEC? Will his style be compatible with what I call Bama football's generational DNA as a team that primarily wins with toughness and defense? (our teams that have channeled that style have usually been our most successful) Will he be able to recruit at a high level with few existing relationships in our region?

I choose to be optimistic and I hear a lot of encouraging things about the guy, but these are real concerns for me. I hope they were at least considered at some level during the hiring process.

You do realize Curry recruited the 92 Defense right?

 

[AlexanderFan]

You do realize Curry recruited the 92 Defense right?

Anything for a panic, and to come back later and say, “I told you so.”

 

[CajunCrimson]

We may not need another splinter thread. Watch for a minute. If this offers something new we can keep it open. But we may move this to recruiting. Let’s see what happens

 

[81usaf92]

Anything for a panic, and to come back later and say, “I told you so.”

IDK… some of these posters that are married to their own view of what a good coach looks like were the same that were complaining about Byrne passing on Billy Donovan for Nate Oats for the same exact reasons. Can’t recruit, runs a non SEC scheme, and isn’t familiar with the South. Idk what Deboer will do, but constantly acting like he isn’t going to be able to recruit because of what he did at Washington is really not giving the guy a chance and just showing that Byrne didn’t get your sweetheart in the process.

Is his recruiting concerning? Sure but let’s give the guy a chance before we get so set on thinking we are heading back to the Shula days already.

 

[GboyBama]

You do realize Curry recruited the 92 Defense right?

Yes. Where Curry is concerned, I was more indicating what our team's personalty was under him. Good enough to rack up offensive stats and win a good bit, but shaky where it came to a bloody bar brawl.

Also, at no point did I say I wasn't giving CKD "a chance." I fact, I mentioned that there are a lot of good points out there about the guy.

 

[rtr90]

Yes. Where Curry is concerned, I was more indicating what our team's personalty was under him. Good enough to rack up offensive stats and win a good bit, but shaky where it came to a bloody bar brawl.

u r wrong .. curry team cannot b accused of being soft by any criteria

 

[CajunCrimson]

Moving to recruiting. It’s not going anywhere

 

[Bamabuzzard]

The bottom line is the guy wins, and apparently wins big wherever he goes. That cannot be argued. No coach is perfect and has weaknesses and if his is recruiting guess who has volunteered his services to help in anyway he can?

Nick freaking Saban! CKD has an enormous support system in place to ensure we don't fall back to the Shula or Dubose years.

 

[81usaf92]

Also, at no point did I say I wasn't giving CKD "a chance." I fact, I mentioned that there are a lot of good points out there about the guy.

It wasn’t directed at any poster in specific. It was referring to the “I told you so” crowd that wants to constantly want to beat something to death. I get it, we all have our controversial and weird opinions about things that we can’t get away from no matter how much we try to be open minded. But at the same time I think it’s been 72 hours and we haven’t ran one play or seen KD put one official on field staffer in Tuscaloosa. The “a tiger doesn’t change his stripes” people are basically the “I expect a national championship this year” people with a different tune. We really don’t know so what’s the point of assuming that he is going to be a Devaney to Osborne hire or a Mike Shula hire at this point in time?

 

[TiderJack]

" Recruiting. End of day, DeBoer was god awful when it came to prep recruiting. Washington didn't land any of the 4 or 5 stars from Washington last year (and despite WA not being a prep powerhouse, it still produces good talent, e.g., Emeka Egbuka at Ohio State played prep ball in Washington). The Blue Bloods like Ohio State and Michigan secured our top state players, and Oregon grabbed two of them. The top player in Washington (RB) signed with ASU. Just ridiculous that DeBoer couldn't land one dude from our program's home state. Maybe he had a foot out the door, but he was not an impressive recruiter of prep talent. In fairness, maybe Baima recruits itself? "

I am sure this poster knows everything about Washington recruiting and his statement is accurate but to be fair many of the top west coast recruits have been poached by the SEC and Big 10 for years.

I don't think their board would be making these comments if we had not poached their coach so this statement has to be taken with a grain of salt. For anybody at this point to say he is a bad or average recruiter is being incredibly premature.

 

[KrAzY3]

I am sure this poster knows everything about Washington recruiting and his statement is accurate but to be fair many of the top west coast recruits have been poached by the SEC and Big 10 for years.

I don't think their board would be making these comments if we had not poached their coach so this statement has to be taken with a grain of salt. For anybody at this point to say he is a bad or average recruiter is being incredibly premature.

I could quote more, everything else he said was accurate and complimentary. This was not sour grapes.

I'd already done my own research showing how Washington recruiting had taken a nose dive under DoBoer. This isn't speculation, just fact. He had like the 36th ranked class this year, despite all his success. He had over three years, 16 four stars.

I think it was 2019 and 2020 Washington had a class ranked 15th and 16th and in one class 16 four stars, so his predecessor did not have the same issues with recruiting. This isn't bias, this isn't any of that, it's stuff I pointed out before DoBoer was hired, a Washington poster just filled in the blanks a bit (missing on all the talent in-state).

The issue I have with this, is some people are pretending it's not a problem or concern. Obviously it is. Can it be fixed? Yes, but you can't fix a problem you pretend isn't there. In this case, due to NIL fans actually have a more proactive role now. There will need to be a warchest for DoBoer because clearly just sweet talking top recruits into joining his team isn't what he's best at, he's best at outsmarting the other team.

 

[Tideflyer]

IDK… some of these posters that are married to their own view of what a good coach looks like were the same that were complaining about Byrne passing on Billy Donovan for Nate Oats for the same exact reasons. Can’t recruit, runs a non SEC scheme, and isn’t familiar with the South. Idk what Deboer will do, but constantly acting like he isn’t going to be able to recruit because of what he did at Washington is really not giving the guy a chance and just showing that Byrne didn’t get your sweetheart in the process.

Is his recruiting concerning? Sure but let’s give the guy a chance before we get so set on thinking we are heading back to the Shula days already.

JMO, but I think this pretty well sums it up ( post above ). One inescapable reality is that subpar recruiting, especially now in a hypercompetitive SEC, will lead to failure (see Bryan Harsin ). With the portal, said failure would probably occur sooner rather than later. IF recruiting elite prep talent is not CKD`s strong suit, then it makes the composition of his staff even more critical, obviously. We shall soon see.

 

[CajunCrimson]

If he doesn’t recruit, he will be replaced. Life continues either way

 

[TiderJack]

It wasn’t directed at any poster in specific. It was referring to the “I told you so” crowd that wants to constantly want to beat something to death. I get it, we all have our controversial and weird opinions about things that we can’t get away from no matter how much we try to be open minded. But at the same time I think it’s been 72 hours and we haven’t ran one play or seen KD put one official on field staffer in Tuscaloosa. The “a tiger doesn’t change his stripes” people are basically the “I expect a national championship this year” people with a different tune. We really don’t know so what’s the point of assuming that he is going to be a Devaney to Osborne hire or a Mike Shula hire at this point in time?

Some are going to doubt no matter what, it's their nature and nothing wrong with it. Good for them if that is how they want to look at it but that is not how I am going to think.

 

[GboyBama]

Some are going to doubt no matter what, it's their nature and nothing wrong with it. Good for them if that is how they want to look at it but that is not how I am going to think.

That's a tolerant and cool approach, so I appreciate that.

I guess for me, the questions Krazy, I and others are asking are aimed at leaving no stone unturned. We can't help but stare at that hairline fissure in our home foundation because we know that not being vigilant about it now could lead to bigger problems down the road. There are factual data points about this coach's resume that don't jibe with typical SEC head coaching success. If we call that out, we're not against the guy or hoping for him to fail. We're just doing our miniscule best to shout at the sky and hope somebody addresses the concern.

With that in mind, I don't think it's negative at all. It's proactive and hopeful of reaching our potential.

 

[Tideflyer]

I personally don`t think it`s an exaggeration to assert that CKD is right in the midst of his first recruiting challenge at Alabama literally as we speak.

 

[AlexanderFan]

I could quote more, everything else he said was accurate and complimentary. This was not sour grapes.

I'd already done my own research showing how Washington recruiting had taken a nose dive under DoBoer. This isn't speculation, just fact. He had like the 36th ranked class this year, despite all his success. He had over three years, 16 four stars.

I think it was 2019 and 2020 Washington had a class ranked 15th and 16th and in one class 16 four stars, so his predecessor did not have the same issues with recruiting. This isn't bias, this isn't any of that, it's stuff I pointed out before DoBoer was hired, a Washington poster just filled in the blanks a bit (missing on all the talent in-state).

The issue I have with this, is some people are pretending it's not a problem or concern. Obviously it is. Can it be fixed? Yes, but you can't fix a problem you pretend isn't there. In this case, due to NIL fans actually have a more proactive role now. There will need to be a warchest for DoBoer because clearly just sweet talking top recruits into joining his team isn't what he's best at, he's best at outsmarting the other team.

I’m certainly glad Saban never lost guys to Oregon, Michigan, Ohio State, Auburn, LSU, Ole Miss, Georgia. Alabama has comparable facilities to those schools, what does Washington have?


Finally, a question, why has Lane done more with less, but this guy just can’t recruit? What’s the difference? 4-8 to the College championship in two years is remarkable no matter how you slice it.