He would probably immediately get a statue by or somewhere near his great grandfather.
Alabama QB competition article
- Thread starter Redwood Forrest
- Start date
He would probably immediately get a statue by or somewhere near his great grandfather.
And, how much did it help his development to sit and watch all year, as opposed to the baptism by fire that Jalen received?
Few things though:
We had one fewer game, so total plays are down quite a bit just because of that and there were more games that were out of contention early so we slowed play down reducing the number of plays even more (total of 111 fewer total plays)
Tua got a lot of the pass reps that Jalen didn't. Total passes last year was 333 - yes still down, but not as much as you're thinking. Total rushing plays was also down in 17 from 16. We did run more as a percentage (61% t0 65%) in 17, but again, much of that was because we had more blowout games where we were trying to kill clock and run it out.
Jalen averaged 11.9 carries per game in the last two years so agree there aren't 10 extra RB reps per game, but I'd bet there are at least 6-8 reps per game that will be split out to RBs and WRs. I wouldn't be surprised to see that somewhat evenly split out due to better ability to make the defense cover the entire field which will open up the running game more, and if we keep RPO as part of the offense the defense will actually believe that every once and a while we'll actually use the "P" part of those plays.
Remember also that a lot of Jalen’s “pass attempts†were jet sweeps, especially in 2016.
The jet sweep is essentially a running play. So if you back those attempts / completions / yards out of his passing totals, his stats look a lot more pedestrian.
Jalen Hurts is a super human being. He is the best opportunity to avoid an upset. He is not the best option against a team that can stand toe to toe when they know they don’t have to defend the whole field.
In a Biblical analogy, he is Moses in that can get you to almost there  the other side of the river from the Promised Land. But he has flaws that require someone else to actually get you across.
I hope he fixes those flaws in his game. If he can’t, Tua will start.
I'd agree with that generally speaking. My argument wasn't that there won't be better distribution, just that there's no way on earth it would be at least ten more rushes per game for the running backs. I'd buy 3-4 more touches for running backs and receivers respectively or something in the ballpark.
I guess the reason is irritated me a bit is that it fell under the hyperbole that sometimes accompanies the subject. There are enough positives to Tua starting, no need to fabricate false ones like running backs getting ten more carries per game. As was pointed out though, Bo being gone will mean more carries for some of the backs though.
The context wasn't meant to analyze Jalen's productivity but just how many run and pass plays there will be in this upcoming season. That aside, I will point out that a lot of college teams lean on those things so they still count. I think Daboll did neither Hurts nor the Alabama offense any favors to remove those from the playbook. What you got instead was just a less effective offense (even when you add in Tua stats to the mix Alabama's offense was still less effective under Daboll and Kiffin pretty much took his last game off).
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There are two sides to that argument though: a #2 will get reps and prep so the developmental aspects certainly would apply, but, being the #3 guy, he likely didn't get many reps at all other than maybe the scout team, which isn't running our offense, plays and terminology.
I think everyone would agree that he was a better QB than if he'd also been thrown in the fire as a true freshman at the beginning of the year...
I think the design of Dabolls offense was perfectly suited to the total balance of players we had last year, with the exception of QB. An amazing receiving core, with potentially 4-5 future first round picks, and at least 3 of not 4 NFL caliber RBs. With that talent, the offense has to be designed to distribute the ball to all that talent all over the field instead of having so many plays being single threaded. We saw how effective the design of the offense could be even with jalen against lesser competition, and most strikingly against UGA in the second half of the championship.
Oh no doubt. I agree. But to be fair, the attitude of almost all four and five star players is "I want to play now". Unfortunately, I think we have a real example of why coaches would rather most of these guys sit a year. It can do permanent damage to the player's development if he's thrown in too early. I think when we look back on this situation of Jalen Hurts, this is the "lesson" we're going to learn. Early playing time isn't always the best thing, especially for a QB.
Regardless if he was a #3 or not, he was still able to have a smoother adjustment period from HS to college by not having the pressure of being the first team QB. There's a mental adjustment period as well as a physical. Sure, he didn't get a lot reps with the first team, maybe not even the second team. But my guess is he still got a lot of reps and had the luxury of being brought along at a slower pace. Sitting and watching gives a player the time to focus on more of the mental side of the game. It's called "mental reps". That term may seem silly but it's very real and very important. Jalen benefited from getting game experience, but sacrificed getting the opportunity to truly sit and learn the mental side of it. Where as the other quarterbacks, didn't get the game experience like Jalen, but benefited from having the time to study the mental side of the game (concepts, principles etc.) rather than learning a game plan for the following week.
There's pro's and con's to both. But I'm an advocate for freshman (especially QB's) sitting the first year, redshirting if possible. It's such a mental position and carries a lot of responsibility that even the most physically talented struggle with it the first year. Jalen Hurts did a fabulous job his freshman year considering his circumstances. But I'm afraid he paid the price for it his sophomore year and it appears it might ultimately cost him his starting job.
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Last year Tua got to take chances since he came in with a big lead. You learn what is a reasonable risk vs a poor decision that way, and we saw Tua get better and better at it as the season progressed. His reads got better, and his throws were timed better by the time the GA game rolled around.
While Jalen had to learn without that advantage, he also played the entire game most of his TF season. So I can't help but wonder why those reps, with the game in hand, were not better used to improve his play. Instead Alabama tried to run the ball more to seal the victories. Imagine how much more Jalen could have improved if he was forced to throw the ball down the field late in those games.
So, IMO, it wasn't just that Jalen was thrown into the fire. It was also the poor management of his snaps late in blowout games.
While Jalen had to learn without that advantage, he also played the entire game most of his TF season. So I can't help but wonder why those reps, with the game in hand, were not better used to improve his play. Instead Alabama tried to run the ball more to seal the victories. Imagine how much more Jalen could have improved if he was forced to throw the ball down the field late in those games.
So, IMO, it wasn't just that Jalen was thrown into the fire. It was also the poor management of his snaps late in blowout games.
One reason we should have more carries for RBs besides fewer QB runs is that late in the game we're going to be less likely to be chucking it around with Tua since he'll likely be starting. We will do more taking the air out of the ball late instead of trying to get a true freshman meaningful reps.
I started getting worked up about this early on last season actually. Obviously, I don't know everything about Hurts, what he did in practice, etc... but I became frustrated with the run heavy, and honestly kind of predictable nature of Daboll's offense. He did what people said he'd do before he arrived, but I didn't see a plan to develop Hurts in how the game was called. I really expected the emphasis to be in developing Hurts.
I didn't see the short confidence building passes early, I didn't see him being forced to focus on his downfield passing late, when the pressure was off. It felt like Daboll was treating him like he was a pro quarterback, he knew what he needed to know, and he just needed to go out there and make those passes. I know it isn't as simple as that, but yeah I did get frustrated and repeatedly said I'd have tried to force Hurts into throwing the ball more once the game was in hand. Well, some people have countered that may be Hurts just chose not to throw, but even Kiffin had him throwing a lot more, so some parts of that simply had to be playcalling.
The Hurts chapter continues to be a puzzling one for me, but it's so easy to forget he's still a teenager. It isn't over, but there are two really stark views on him. One is that he's basically just deficient as a passer, could never make it in the NFL, and basically what you see is what you get. The other is that he's someone who has had his development stunted, he was thrust into playing too early, is going on his fourth OC, was never really developed properly. May be we'll get to figure out the answer to that at some point...
But, I will say this. Just for his sake alone, after the championship game I felt like the best thing he could possibly do was go find a place that develops QBs well and has a starting senior. Sit out a year, learn, develop, then get his shot at starting as a redshirt junior. Selfishly I'm happy it doesn't look like that will happen, but as of right now I'm as inclined to blame circumstance as I am to blame Hurts for his lack of development in some key areas.
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I've pretty much reached the same conclusion. It kinda stinks for Jalen because he said he came to Alabama to learn how to be a pro-style (NFL ready) QB. He and his family realized he was not that in HS and they chose Bama. I wonder if they would've known how it would all shake down if they would have chosen this path.
I'll consider Jalen part of the architecture of the '17 title, but because he was thrust into a role he wasn't really ready for he never got the opportunity to develop.
FWIW, I think Tua was probably more prepared from day 1 with QB skills that Jalen didn't have like pocket awareness, footwork and field vision, but his sitting on the bench and only playing in a relief role up until the Georgia game really help cement his readiness. In this regard, Jalen never had a chance to change/grow into what he might have been able to become.
I wanted to weigh in on this as well. It'll be interesting what will happen between Tyson and Taulia. Same class right?
I feel just like you and others that it would be the ultimate footnote in Bear Bryant's history that a descendent would quarterback us to another NC. I can't even imagine!!!
Do you think with Jalen, Tua, and Jones all with 2-3 years to play that we get both Tyson and Taulia? I realize the pull for both of them, but somebody needs to advise them that their chances of playing early are zero and maybe not at all. While I love Alabama as much as anyone, if I am a top QB prospect I would probably be looking at a program where I could get some playing time even with taking a RS year.
The problem is they may have a longer view of things. We forget that what's happened recently is not the norm. Most college QBs don't start from day one. I know there are exceptions but usually it's a guy who's put in his time after redshirting and sitting behind someone else for a couple of years.
I hope that's the longview Tyson and Taulia are taking.
I'm not sure that would have helped Jalen that much. Not a dig on jalen, just an observation that against most of the teams we had huge leads on, Jalen was pretty successful throwing against them because they didn't have the athleticism to force jalen to make tight throws or to force him to go past the first or second read. For Jalen, I think the only thing that would really help him is reps against our first team D because that's closest to what he needed to work on and the only thing that would force him to move through progressions, read tight coverages and anticipate when/where receivers will be open. Against those lesser teams where we had big leads he would be throwing to wide open receivers or not having to go past the first or second read.
KrAzY3; said:
I don't think there is any way to say that, because we don't know if the issue is a Jalen limitation or coaching limitation. neither Sims nor Coker had more than a year as a starter under Kiffin, and they developed under him pretty well - especially Sims as he was a guy without the biggest arm, but he was very good at making reads fast, checking a couple of progressions and making the right read. I know they are not apples to apples with Jalen since Jalen was a TF instead of upper classman, but the process with Kiffin was there to develop him. We also can see that the progressions are certainly being taught and focused on by Daboll, because we saw Tua execute them very well and that the plays Daboll was calling for Jalen and Tua were basically the same, just executed differently by QBs who made different reads in a set of circumstances. We also know that Jalen was getting more reps and focus in practice than Tua. that said, maybe dabolls style didn't work for Jalen for whatever reason and we'll see something else in the future, but it's just not an honest claim to say he wasn't developed properly.
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